40-year-AZ-hunter

GREAT WORK guys and gals!!!!! Bruce

In 2011, the mule deer auction tags brought in more than the raffle tag. Of the two antelope auction tags, one exceeded the raffle amount and one was less. For every other species (elk, sheep, Coues, etc) the raffle tag generated more than either of the auction tags. Bruce

Now G&F is wise? Which is it - are they wise of not? Funny, the 2072 supporters don't quote the Commission when it voted 5-0 to oppose the legislation. To listen to some of the supporters, G&F has completely messed things up and that's why we need to give SFW 350 tags to bring in money to fix the mess (like Utah has done in their minds). Bruce

With all due respect bigjohnson123, it is exactly that attitude (we know better than you all do what is good for you) that started this whole ordeal in secrecy and continues to try to hide it from the light of day. I have attempted on many occasions to engage the proponents in rational conversations, on their turf, to no avail. Yet, they continue to say, while hiding behind screen names, that it is us that don't understand. Well, we include the entire current G&F Commission, a number of past commissioners, and many hunt (critter) groups. I will PM you my phone number as I have done with others in the past if you decide you would like to help me understand how I am in over my head. Be well, Bruce

Really! You think any good can from you going on TV, into the livingrooms of the public and talk about Auction Hunters vs Regular Hunters?? It is one thing to discuss the division us hunters have amongst ourselves on a forum like this one, but to publically bash any form of legal hunting on National television is completely insane!!!! Think about it!!!! Guys, bigjohnson123 is a big supporter of 2072. Me thinks we are on the right track! He has only one previous post from 2 weeks ago when he said "I am 100% percent fully for the passing and implementation of hb2072 ..... ...... How many of you bitchers have ever done one thing to perpetuate, improve and conserve AZ wildlife for future young hunters? So few of you that it is pathetic, just like your argument against this bill....Get off your self rightous high horses.." http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30998&st=45&p=298234entry298234 I sure would not be taking advice from him! Perhaps they are not happy about the light of day being shined on this mess. They have been against any transparency from the beginning! Good work guys! Bruce

Well, even tho I cant make the banquet, I want to thank AES for their unabashed support of the average Joe hunter in AZ. I did join a few weeks ago and was able to spend some time yesterday helping them set up the banquet room. Bruce

Sooooooo, all this stuff about the Utah miracle since "expo tags" is a bunch of hot air. They pick and chose their statistics. What a surprise. So lets compare what has happened to the deer permits between Utah and Arizona from 2006 (when the expo tags started in UT) to 2010 From Craigs data, the number of deer permits in Ut dropped by 1% in 5 years From the "2011 Hunt Arizona" book published by AZ G&F Dept and available for download on the G&F site, Arizona had 38,138 general deer tags in 2006 Arizona had 43,993 general deer tags in 2010 AN INCREASE OF 15% Gee, UT goes DOWN by 1% Arizona goes UP by 15%! Funny that's not what AZSFW is telling folks. Bruce

WOW, I'm impressed. That is one conscientious representative! Good for Ms. Judd! Bruce

Suzanne and Alan (and whoever Pete is) will really let the genie out of the bottle! Bruce

OK, I'm just an average Joe so I guess it's to be expected that I'm confused and don't understand, but if I believe AZSFW, since Peay started the Expo sale of tags in UT the game is doing so well they should not need this (wink, wink). Wasn't predator control part of their pitch for the tags there? What the heck is that in the article about declining deer herds? According to the stats from AZSFW, UT is a model of expanding herds. Seems someone is not quite telling the whole story. Oh, I forgot. Its just that I'm too stupid to understand. Bruce

+1 Bingo!

The Arizona State Legislature is a bicameral body with 30 members in the Senate and 60 members in the House of Representatives. Each district is served by one Senator and two House members. It is most effective to send a personal note to your own legislators. They want your vote. Written letters carry more weight than emails. They figure if you take the time to write and mail a letter, you really care. Any communication is better than none. If you know who your legislators are or know your district number follow this link for the House roster http://www.azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp?Body=H&SortBy=2 and this link for the Senate roster http://www.azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp?Body=S&SortBy=2 These rosters are sorted by district number and have email addresses as well as phone numbers. Once on the roster page, you can resort the lists by clicking on the column head. If you do not know your legislative district follow this link and fill in your address in the boxes in the lower left corner. http://2001.azredistricting.org/ In the upper left will be your legislative district (you do not want the congressional district). Go back to the links above with that district number to find your 2 representatives and your senator. If you want to send an email to all House members, you can copy and paste this list into the “to” field in your email program, but remember how you feel about SPAM. Dont be counterproductive! kyee@azleg.gov, vwilliams@azleg.gov, bwheeler@azleg.gov, jpweiers@azleg.gov, jweiers@azleg.gov, tvogt@azleg.gov, surie@azleg.gov, mugenti@azleg.gov, atovar@azleg.gov, atobin@azleg.gov, dstevens@azleg.gov, dsmith@azleg.gov, cseel@azleg.gov, msaldate@azleg.gov, brobson@azleg.gov, areeve@azleg.gov, tproud@azleg.gov, fpratt@azleg.gov, jpierce@azleg.gov, dpatterson@azleg.gov, lpancrazi@azleg.gov, jolson@azleg.gov, smontenegro@azleg.gov, rmiranda@azleg.gov, cmiranda@azleg.gov, emeyer@azleg.gov, jmesnard@azleg.gov, nmclain@azleg.gov, ddavis@azleg.gov, dlesko@azleg.gov, jkavanagh@azleg.gov, pjudd@azleg.gov, rjones@azleg.gov, khobbs@azleg.gov, mheinz@azleg.gov, jharper@azleg.gov, ahale@azleg.gov, rgray@azleg.gov, dgowan@azleg.gov, dgoodale@azleg.gov, sgonzales@azleg.gov, rgallego@azleg.gov, tforese@azleg.gov, jfillmore@azleg.gov, efarnsworth@azleg.gov, sfarley@azleg.gov, kfann@azleg.gov, jdial@azleg.gov, ccrandell@azleg.gov, scourt@azleg.gov, tchabin@azleg.gov, hcarter@azleg.gov, chcampbell@azleg.gov, jburges@azleg.gov, kbrophymcgee@azleg.gov, bbarton@azleg.gov, cash@azleg.gov, barredondo@azleg.gov, lalston@azleg.gov, eableser@azleg.gov For all Senators use this list, paboud@azleg.gov, sallen@azleg.gov, fantenori@azleg.gov, nbarto@azleg.gov, abiggs@azleg.gov, jburges@azleg.gov, ocajerobedford@azleg.gov, rcrandall@azleg.gov, adriggs@azleg.gov, sgallardo@azleg.gov, rgould@azleg.gov, lgray@azleg.gov, ggriffin@azleg.gov, jjackson@azleg.gov, lklein@azleg.gov, llandrum@azleg.gov, jlewis@azleg.gov, llopez@azleg.gov, dlujan@azleg.gov, jmccomish@azleg.gov, amelvin@azleg.gov, rmeza@azleg.gov, rmurphy@azleg.gov, jnelson@azleg.gov, spierce@azleg.gov, mreagan@azleg.gov, dschapira@azleg.gov, dshooter@azleg.gov, stevesmith@azleg.gov, syarbrough@azleg.gov

I'll take a stab at summarizing the list that Javi started this thread with and others can add to it or correct me if I have something wrong. In no particular order, Arizona Elk Society Arizona Game and Fish Commission Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Arizona Wildlife Federation Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club Arizona Bowhunters Association Coconino Sportsmen National Wild Turkey Federation - Az Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society Bruce

TJ, I tried to send you a PM. With all due respect, this is a section of CWT entitled "Political Discussions - This forum is for discussion politics related to hunting" The latest post on HB2072 did not use any profanity, nor did it engage in any name calling. It was merely a call to action on the BIGGEST political issue to face hunters in years. To do as you suggest and "set aside this issue" is not up to those opposing the concept. As long as those proposing this for Arizona continue, there must be effective voices in opposition. Bruce Johnson

Jack, Arizona Elk Society, Hunt of a Lifetime, Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club, Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society and others have now stopped funding AZSFW. "trusted" - past tense! Bruce

Jack, Would you extend that representation to hunters and anglers who do not belong to one of the "critter" groups? Well less than 5% of hunting license holders belong to any organized group. Right now, everyone, whether they belong to a group or not has input into the G&F process via the open Commission meetings, many dept forums for hunt recommendations, the ballot box (Governor appoints Commissioners), public records laws that allow people to see everything G&F does, etc. Individuals, many of whom do much for wildlife and habitat, have no input into AZSFW or visibility into their processes. Their meetings are not announced on their own website. They do not publish minutes of their meetings. The do not provide anything resembling a "treasurers" report. Most groups do all the above. I personally asked AZSFW how an individual who did not donate $1000 could run for their Board. I was told that they can not. I asked for minutes of their meetings for the past 6 months and none have been forthcoming. I asked for any analysis they had done on the prices the tags they want would bring and how they would affect the prices of existing auction tags and received NOT even a reply. I sent a message asking how many individual, paying members (not members because they belong to an affiliate) AZSFW has. Again, no response. Not much "light of day" shines into their cave. How about AZSFW calling a meeting, open to all and announced well in advance on all the forums, to solicit input from ALL hunters, anglers, or just plain citizens? How about announcing that they are stopping all lobbying on "the concept" of HB 2072 at the legislature until they have achieved such "tranparency" and regained some trust. To me, it was AZSFW that caused the rift among sportsmen. It is their responsibility to take the lead in healing the wounds. Even with the outcry about the "process" of dropping HB 2072, there is NO transparency yet. And, just for the record, I oppose the whole concept behind HB 2072 - tags sold by a private organization at an expo to benefit that organization, but I would gladly enter into any process designed to openly explore all possibilities for solving the problems. Bruce

Great job Runningbird! THANKS for all the work! Bruce

Some folks are concerned that people who do not see eye-to-eye with them may get a seat at the new table being set. It's a threat to the existing order! Interestingly, had they not tried to "go a bridge too far" (HB 2072) there would have been no outcry for a change to the status quo that they controlled. Reap what ye soe! That being said, I'm glad it's a meeting taking place under the auspices of AZ G&F so everyone can see what is happening in the light of day provided by open meeting laws and subject to public records requests (as probably made by Mr. Cimellaro). Things done by AZSFW are not subject to any such visibility. For instance, I've asked Ms Gilstrap repeatedly for the minutes of AZSFW and AZSFWC meetings. They have no obligation to answer to us. Just one more reason not to trust such an organization with tags and funds and authority. Yep, Pete - I'll be there on the 22nd too! Bruce

Amanda, You wrote, "In fact Suzanne made a presentation to the ADA board last night" We've read that ADA was supposed to survey their members, but it seems the members have not seen that. Delay, delay! Pete told folks before the banquet that if they came back with this stuff he would not be happy. He has now written that it needs to be killed. What did the ADA board do following the presentation by Ms. Gilstrap? It's time to get off the fence! Bruce

Please, please, email your friend back and give him " the rest of the story ". A link to the Arizona Wildlife Federations statement would be a good place to start along with Robbie Woodhouse's writeup. Let me know if you need the links. I can't tell you how I feel about John Koleszar here on a public forum. In January he told us repeatedly that this bill was dead and asked us "isn't a man's word good for anything here". Well, I guess we now know. Thanks, Bruce

The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society has been quiet as a church mouse regarding HB 2072. It's time for the critter groups who are fence sitting to take a position. The ADBSS Board meeting is Mar. 14 (Wed), 7pm at El Zaribah Shrine 552 N. 40th St. Phoenix. They may need a little shove. Bruce

Thanks for that. Good for them. At least they will take a position as of Wed. night. I plan to be at the meeting to see how it goes. Now if the ADA would just get off the fence. Where are you Bonuspointjohn? Bruce

The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society has been quiet as a church mouse regarding HB 2072. It's time for the critter groups who are fence sitting to take a position. The ADBSS Board meeting is Mar. 14 (Wed), 7pm at El Zaribah Shrine 552 N. 40th St. Phoenix. They may need a little shove to get off the fence. Bruce

Just have to Google "Arizona HB 2072" and see that the first page of links is essentially all references to various facits of opposition to HB 2072. Hard for them to overcome that. In fact, I plan to print that page and mail it to my legislators tomorrow with just a short note that says the opposition is overwhelming despite what AZSFW may be telling them. Bruce

Bump. If anyone needs help finding their Reps and Senator, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to help. Bruce