40-year-AZ-hunter

Hope this link helps. If not, send me a PM, and I'll get you the specific info for you. http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31148 Thanks, Bruce

Two brand new members of the forum, SNORT and BIGJOHNSON123 recently posted their criticisms of members for their opposition to HB2072 in the thread "Need more green ones (good guys)....who will be next". I personally welcome them to the debate. Since they posted their objections in the thread designed to identify those who have come out publicly in opposition to HB2072, I have a well-meaning suggestion. You should start a new thread that lists those organizations and individuals who have come out in support of HB2072. As in the prior thread, it should identify people and organizations by their real names, not "screen" names (especially since you have made so much of using a keyboard to advance the opposition). I suggest that such a thread would give everyone a much better idea of just how broad the support for this issue is. Again, you have made reference to the small group opposition, how about letting us see the size of the support? Bruce Johnson Flagstaff

Sir, I just returned from the G&F Commission meeting this morning where this topic was discussed at length. I got up and spoke my piece as did others. Were you there and did you speak? If not, I'm not sure you have any right to tell others how to conduct their affairs. If you send me a PM with your phone number, I'll be happy to discuss it with you, but I bet you will not do that. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to correct the record. Bruce Johnson

This will really shine a spotlight on John K. and Pete C. We should see what they really stand for - special interests or the regular hunting community. Mr. Koleszar repeated over and over when this thing first blew up that "it is dead". He even referred to how good a man's word is. On Jan 13, 2012 he wrote; "Evidently a man's word is not worth much here. For those conspiracy theorists, the black helicopter squads, and .... the paranoid..The bill will not be back. Nuff said." http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29766&st=300&p=289403entry289403 Maybe there really are black helicopters John. I guess we will see. You have been VERY silent since it came to light again. Bruce

I believe UNMACHT, JAMES is the President of AZSFWC

Sorry it will not format here as it was sent out in Word but, Here is the memo from Hamberlin: Memorandum To: Arizona Sportsmen and Conservation Organization Board of Directors FROM: Alan Hamberlin, Chairman AZSFW RE: Response to Organization Concerns about HB 2072 DATE: February 29, 2010 In our continuing effort to communicate with sportsmen and conservation organizations, we wanted to bring you up to date on the status of HB 2072. Earlier today we met with representatives from the Governor’s office and two of the five commissioners primarily to see if there is an opportunity for continuing dialogue on the bill. We agreed to continue to communicate with them as we progress to let them know what changes we are making to the bill. We appreciate the responses and feedback that we have received relative to the introduced version of the bill and our responses to those concerns are listed below. It is our desire to solicit any additional concerns you may have. We respectfully request that this memo be disseminated to all members of your respective Boards of Directors asking them to identify additional issues that they may have. We will seriously evaluate and respond to any legitimate concerns. There are at least four items that we agree to modify in response to concerns and issues that have been raised thus far as follows: 1. The original bill had no cap on administrative fees; we will cap those fees at 10% 2. While the original bill had a reporting requirement for the qualifying organization to adopt a Board resolution and submit it to the Arizona Game and Fish Department specifying the amount of proceeds received from the sale of tags from the auction and raffle and sold at the EXPO and Banquets and the costs associated with same and the monies paid for each of the six purposes listed in the bill and the cost of administration. We will add a new provision requiring an annual outside independent audit of the proceeds received from tag sales and the expenditure of those proceeds by a certified public accountant. 3. We have been asked to cap the number of tags that will be available as a result of the legislation in the future to 350 tags. We agree to cap the number of tags at 350. 4. Concern has been raised by some that none of the monies flow directly back to the Arizona Game and Fish Department (AZGFD). We are willing to negotiate with Game and Fish and are prepared to offer them up to 30% of the net proceeds to augment their hunter recruitment program if they support the legislation. Please communicate any additional concerns to Suzanne Gilstrap at 602-390-4518 or preferably communicate via email to suzanne@capitolconsultingaz.com .

The groups that have split with AZSFW and those that are still on the fence.

The President of the ADA, John Kolezar, repeatedly told us back in January that this bill was dead. For example on 13 January 2012 - 10:19 AM he wrote on this forum in the thread on HB2072 "Evidently a man's word is not worth much here. For those conspiracy theorists, the black helicopter squads, and .... the paranoid..The bill will not be back. Nuff said. You can now go on to other endeavors." He had not signed onto this site since Feb 22 as of this afternoon. I sent him a PM asking if the bill was now still "dead" as he assured us repeatedly and linked to this thread. Shortly thereafter according to his profile, he was signed onto this thread. As of now, I have not received any response to my PM nor has he posted here. I hope Mr. Kolezar is discussing the situation with Ms. Gilstrap and will enlighten us all about his current views and those of ADA. Bruce Johnson

Thanks for the heads up Larry! Everyone, PLEASE email your hunting buddies TODAY/NOW and make them aware of this development.

I'm sure many of you are on the email list for AZSFW. I received an email from them today (signed by Susanne Gilstrap) that explains their rationale for the legislation and asks for support. It talks in the present tense. Here is the last "summary" paragraph, "4.Summary Most of the tags (about 276 of the total) are existing draw tags with special rules giving sportsmen a second opportunity to get drawn separate and apart from the AZGFD draw. Only 54 tags would be reserved for auction, without which we could not raise the money necessary to accomplish the objectives specified in the legislation. In other words, we would be investing in 54 tags a year to help increase our wildlife herd numbers by several thousand. Or we can keep the status quo and continue to reduce the number of permits for sportsmen by approximately 2,000 a year. We respectfully ask for your support in this endeavor." Sure does not sound DEAD as BPJ said over and over when this thing blew up. Stay alert!

I guess I get confused becasue there are statements from AZSFW and AZSFWC and they aren't always the same. I understand they are different organizations with different goals, but aren't many of the players the same? Not only do they have many of the same players but start checking to see who is on the board of the different organizations that are listed as members of AZSFW. Many have called this an incestuous relationship for years. Members of the various organizations never get to vote for the boards or the president of the group, they are "appointed" by current board members. It grows more and more ingrained and isolated from the general hunting public.

I sent an email to AZSFW weeks ago asking exactly that question and said I would post the answer in the HB2072 thread. I'm still waiting for an answer from them. It's only one of many legitimate questions nobody seems to answer. I'm still hoping someone will tell us when the next ADA meeting is. They keep imploring us to attend. Please let us know when and where. Bruce

Chef, I'd like to consider attending the next meeting. I looked at the ADA web site and see that they are held on the third Tuesday of every month but no place is given. You seem to indicate the meeting is next week which would not be the 3rd Tuesday. The "Calendar of Events" does not list any future meetings. I'm not a member of ADA, but would like to consider attending. Could you or someone post the time and place of the next meeting? Thanks, Bruce

Mark, Thank you for your candid post and I respect your decision to make it a "one time post". I, and probably others, would still like someone, anyone, to say who provided such briefings. Clearly the person providing the briefings is being protected and that's a darn shame. People would not have been any more irate about HB2072 if Sandy Bahr or Stephanie Nichols Young were behind it. In fact, I would be less upset seeing it from them than from someone or some group that we thought were our allies. Trust is hard to restore once it is lost. Bruce

First and foremost, there was never a vote on the issue. There was never a member of the AZSFW at any of our recent meetings. If an item has not been voted on, it will not appear in the minutes. Just curious 40... do you belong to any organizations?... Have you ever worked a banquet?... Mr. Koleszar, Convenient that we will never know who from ADA knew about this stealth issue before it erupted on these forums. At least I guess we can surmise that the ADA did not back it (no vote) and you are speaking for yourself rather than as their president. As far as the personal questions go - yes I belong to organizations and no I have never worked a banquet. Would you like my tax return too? Needless to say, we have very different views on many issues. Bruce Johnson

Can we please see the minutes of the ADA Board meeting at which they were briefed on HB2072? Those minutes should reveal who was there from AzSFW and ADA. Amanda? BPJ?

Hellofa first post Ryan! Great!

In post 47 of this thread, BPJ says "There can be no way that the ADA will support the bill. It is history, so we move on. We pay dues to the AZSFWC... a different organization totally" http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30026&view=findpost&p=290385 In post 189 of the HB2072 thread Amanda says " The fundraising side group of AZSFW is the AZSFWC." http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29766&view=findpost&p=288877 Somehow this does not sound like a "different organization totally"!

The ADA board was given very little information and only briefed once shortly before the bill was dropped. I was attending that particular ADA board meeting by telephone and they actually didn't get the phone thing going until after the briefing about the bill so I missed hearing it directly. However, as I understand it, some of the concepts were presented and the board asked for more details and those were not provided prior to dropping the bill. The ADA board was not given time to review or comment on the bill. This bill did not receive the support of the ADA board. I believe the AZSFW group was trying to keep this very quiet in order to keep anti-hunting groups from gathering forces to fight it. It's extremely disappointing to me that AZSFW chose to keep the hunting community out of the process as well. with regard to your question about the outdoor expo, the AZSFW has nothing to do with that. There are actually two large hunting/outdoor expos in AZ and one is the International Sportsmen's Expo (put on by the ISE) and the other is the AGFD expo. Amanda, Are minutes available from that ADA meeting? They would be very helpful in this discussion. A record of who gave the briefing and what it contained would be especially interesting. The last minutes on the ADA website are from July 2011.

The ADA has not taken a stance on the bill. We were given a preliminary overview of what the bill was and what it would accomplish. The board asked for more information and the "devil in the details". Since we did not see the bill prior to the dropping in the state legislature and since there was a response that mandated not moving it forward, there will be no vote on an item that is moot. As far as membership, the ADA is not a member of the AZSFW. We are however a member of the AZSFWC. The purpose of the "C" is to have a forum for sportsmen, meet monthly to discuss items of interest, meet with the AZGFD (They come every month and brief us on what is current) and then review proposals for the spending of the wildlife plate monies. The ADA, the AES, the AAF and the ADBSS have in the past funded the lobbyist efforts of Capitol Consulting (Suzanne Gilstrap). That process will be up for review, pending any decisions as to the future of the AZSFW. Please feel free to ask any more questions. When did ADA quit the AZSFW? It is listed as a Platinum member. See above post. From the ADA website, "Officers and Board of Directors - 2011 President - John Koleszar"

BPJ says "There can be no way that the ADA will support the bill. It is history, so we move on. We pay dues to the AZSFWC... a different organization totally." "As far as membership, the ADA is not a member of the AZSFW." Well, ADA is listed as a Platinum member organization of AZSFW (Not referring to AZSFWC) which is a $10,000. http://arizonasportsmenforwildlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137&Itemid=81 From AZSFW web site, "For an organization that wants to be involved and may be eligible to have a representative serve on Board of Directors. Listed on Web site with link to organization website, eligible to make recommendations for annual agendas plus other benefits... Platinum Level $10,000" From the AZSFW membership page, Arizona Deer Association (Platinum)

BPJ, When did you delete your statement of Jan 14 that you were making your last post in this thread?

Who was the memo addressed to or was it a "press release"?

As another poster said, look into a prepaid plan using the Verizon network. You dont have to go to Verizon. There are other resellers like Net10, Straight Talk, etc that have phones that use the Verizon system and cost A LOT less and you dont need to sign up for a contract. Just pay by the month and if you don't like them, leave.

Here is the response I received... "Bruce, Individuals are not eligible to sit on the Board of Directors. Thanks for the inquiry. Suzanne" So it appears the control of the AzSFW is VERY tightly controlled. I'd still love to see their Bylaws but they don't seem to be available to us either.