hawkeye

I was going over the agenda for the meeting on Saturday, and noticed that the 2nd order of business was to vote on the rules for the fall hunt. Now if they are going to vote on this and there is no public comment until the end of the meeting how is going to the meeting going to help? It seems to me that making statements after the fact is futal. The only meetings I have attended did not involve voting on rule changes. Will they permit statements from the public before they vote? If not, it seems that making statements after they have already voted will not make a difference.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a 2 ounce bottle of Bohning Power Bond glue at the Sportsmans warehouse in Mesa. After driving home about an hour and a half I opened it to fletch some arrows and it was dried up. I mean hard as a rock. I called the store and they said they would send some new to me. Well they called back and said that they opened several bottles and found only 2 that were not dried up. She said that it was brown and like honey. I used to run an archery shop and there is nothing worse than fletching arrows with outdated glue. I told her that it was old and wouldn't work. She refunded my money and I ordered from another store. The reason for the post is to inform others to check out any fletching cement they purchase from Sportsmans Warehouse before buying. I have no problem with the store, and I will be a customer in the future. I just think who ever runs the archery dept. doesn't know the importance of not selling outdated glue to archers. I'm not sure if they make custom arrows there, but if they do it makes you wonder what quality of glue they use.

Just wanted everyone to be warned. After all the their glue was bad I thought people should know to check. They must have a stock rotation problem. It takes quite a while for glue to go bad.

I talked to Brian and he also told me that the overlap was addressed at the Dec. meeting. I read the minutes of the Dec. meeting and I hate to call someone a liar, but. The only mention of the overlap was mentioned for the limited opportunity hunts. Maybe I am missing it but I have been searching the minutes and I can't find where it was addressed.

Thanks Jim, for your time and effort. The only thing that was different back in the good ol days with the fruit salad hunt was that unless you had an elk tag you were not allowed in the field with the bow. And that is the only problem with me. It opens a whole new way that the poachers can operate.

Archery bull elk hunters have always wanted to have the hunts fall at the peak of rutting every year, just ask one that drew a tag this year, they'll tell ya. In years past they've voiced it several times at meetings, not commission or hunt recommendations being the only place it happens. I guess in a perfect world the hunt dates wouldn't even be posted till just before the rut starts but it can't work like that so at some point in time a line has to be drawn in the sand to say when. Finding that happy medium between archery elk hunters and archery deer hunters is what becomes a battle. I hope you look at the flip side of things. Say the elk hunt starts the weekend after archery deer ends so they don't overlap. Now you're an archery deer hunter that has gone 13+ years without ever in his/her life taking a deer with a bow. You've put the hours of scouting and prepping then go afield stalking that buck of a lifetime when a bull tag holder comes out and starts to bugle to see if any bulls will answer and runs off the bucks you been chasing for years. Welcome to public property and unfortunately even though I myself get really frustrated at times with it I'm sure glad we have it that way vs. Texas or the like. One hunters idea of a quality hunt is not quite another hunters idea of a quality hunt. 'Quality' has seemed to take on the term 'record book only or you're a complete failure' in the mainstream hunting these days. It's a shame but seems to be a mindset that I don't see any near-term change for. Greed, popularity, and the spotlight have taken over the longtime morals of tradition, respect and conservation for mother nature we seen in good old yester-years. hawkeye, that must have been Brian Wakeling, AZGFD Big Game Program Supervisor. you have missed my point. Why not start the deer season the same that it has been in the past? Why move it up? And the biggest thing about the overlap is not the quality of the elk hunt, it is the problem with poaching and making a better opportunity for it. I have hunted in Arizona for over 42 years and Their are a lot of unethical hunters out there with a great big grinn on their face. If you have anyone in the field with a bow during an archery elk season there is no way to enforce against poaching. One person can draw a tag and the whole famn damily, and friends are out hunting for the elk. Unless you actually see the person shoot the elk their is no way to catch them. Just by not allowing archers in the field durring an elk hunt, unless with a tag will make it harder to poach. This was law in years past and I can't for the life of me understand the thinking in changing it. It was put there for a reason. If you don't think poaching is a real problem, I don't know what to tell you. As for the hunts overlapping it doesn't change the way I will hunt. It seems to me that the AZGFD is trying to put all of the hunters in the field at the same time.

I called and asked some how come questions. That was a joke. I talked to a man named, Brian "I think" Wigglin. We talked for quite some time and boy is he a good public relations man. I was never given a reason for the overlapping archery deer and elk hunt. He danced and danced around the subject, and at one time told me that it was what the archery hunters wanted, and voiced that oppinion at the December meeting. I was not at the December meeting, but I can't believe that archery hunters showed up and wanted this change. Can anyone that attended that meeting remember this happening? It might have, but I doubt it.

The biggest problem with the overlapping hunts is that there are quite a few unethical hunters out there, and several people would be hunting on one tag. One guy will have a tag and three or four of his buddies could have bows in the field helping him fill the tag. There is no reason I can think of to make this change, and their are several reasons not to. But if past practices continue, it usually doesn't matter what we think. I will be at the April meeting and I am sure it will follow the same lines as usual. "We will take all of your comments into consideration". (And then we will do as we damned well please).

Absolute power is absolute corruption. They have to answer to no one. They don't give a dang how many letters or petitions you send, they ignore every single one of them, and do what they want. The Arizona Game and Fish Dept. are full to the brim with tree huggin environmentalists. You all think that electing your commisioners is a bad thing, well it isn't any worse than what is going on right now. The only way you will have a say in what happens is when the commisioners are elected from each county. That will never happen so get ready for the end. I really don't know how to stop it. I have sent letters and e-mail till I am blue in the face. I hope that I am wrong, but until we can find a way to defeat the AZGFD we are in a world of hurt in Arizona. I have attended commision meetings and it isn't any better. If they don't like the way the discussions are going they just end the meeting. I saw it for a fact in Pinetop. There wasn't a single person in favor of changing the whitetail structure and the people were getting vocal. Well that was the end of that meeting. And as you can see it didn't matter how many people showed up to voice their oppinion. The power and money they have is to the point of no return. I sure wish someone would come up with a real answer. The normal channels of checks and balance does not work for this branch of Government. They have no one to fear. "When people fear their Government it's called communism, when the Government fears it's people it's called democracy".

Sounds just like communism. "Stay respectful, or stay quiet" Just love who ever is in power and don't question anything. Why did we get rid of Saddam? He was in power we should have respected that.

You had better get your stats in order. I can't believe you think that the oil company makes 10 percent profit. And what do you think builds the roads and freeways we drive on. It sure isn't the oil companies hundreds of billions of dollars in profits. The poor local pump station might make the 10 percent you talk about, but I doubt that it is even that high.

I agree with you. Bush has great big balls. He just doesn't have a brain cell one, to go with them. Too bad too. If he would have used them balls to go after the real ones that attacked our country, and not waist our time and effort in Iraq maybe we would have brought justice to the right people. But thats alright we made his Vice-Presidents old company, many billions of dollars, and returned the oil fields to his oil companies allies.

A "B" in ani-terorism and social issues. My god come on. The man sent 60 thousand troops into the country where the attacks came from, and 160 thousand troops into an oil rich nation that had no proven involvement with the attacks. They were lacking in the safety equipment and technology needed, The day of the attacks the only people in the whole country that were allowed to fly was the family of the mastermind behind the attacks. That was so the family of his old business buddy could leave the country. I am not anti Republican or Democrate, but after the last 6 plus year of Bush, I can say that I am anti Bush, and his oil croneys. His rich oil buddies have ruled this country for the last few years, and I am sick of it. I suppose you can't wait until the four dollar a gallon oil comes. If you think the oil prices are high because of oil supplies, guess again. Exon, Mobil has been posting the biggest profits in the history of the world for the last few years. Just so happens, Bush and his family are oil men. I am not in favor of cutting off funding for our troops, and I support our troops 100 percent, but I am in favor of getting rid of our worst President in the history of the United States.

shot placement is the key. My daughter-in-law killed a real nice 7X6 bull last year. This was here first bull hunt and she only shot 53 pounds, and I made her up some 1913 aluminum arrows, with 100 grn. Muzzy heads. She made the shot at 35 yards and had a complete pass through. We found the bull about 70 yards from where it was shot. One thing I have found out over the years is, don't shoot more pounds than you can pull back smoothly and confortabely, and although you will be doing a lot of practice, take a target to camp and ,every day shoot a few arrows. This will keep your muscles limber, and let you know if something has happened to your bow.

My point was not only did we draw the low number tags for our second choice, but that we did not put in together, and what are the odds that we would draw the 24th and 25th tag. My wife had 8 points and I had 7 points. We both put in for unit 9 first, and have never been drawn for that unit. I know some people that have had several tags in 9. I am very happy that I will be hunting though. But don't think for a minute that the draw is on the up and up. Too many fishy things going on. And don't think for a minute that you can trust an Arizona Government official to tell you the truth. Sure wish there was a way to find the truth. Oh well. I'll just be happy that I can hunt once every 6 or 7 years, better than not getting to hunt at all.

My wife and I put in separatly and were both drawn for our second choice, 5A archery bull. That makes me very happy. The thing that stinks is that she drew permit #24 and I drew permit #25. Now that goes to show that it is not a draw. What are the odds of a husband and wife drawing second choice permits and in sequence. We havent been drawn for years and we are sure glad to get a permit, but it sure is fishy that we were drawn in sequence. Sure would like to examine the process. But I think that will remain a secret for quite some time. Dave

I find it hard to believe you could get any bull tag on a 3rd choice. And this one, considering the odds of drawing with 1st and 2nd choice was 15% last year? Are you sure? just yankin your chain. I got my second choice. Someone did that to me last year and it sure screwed with my head

Just got through and I drew my 3rd choice archery bull in unit 4B. I have never heard of that. Has anyone heard of an Archery bull tag being drawn for a third choice? Took 7 years to draw so after this hunt I guess I will be hunting out of state for a few years. Hey I am happy. If my wife got here 9 tag I will be up there with her. If not I will be in 4B.

I used my Cabelas Visa and I can go online at cabelas.com and check my activity. I have two hits for archery bull. My wife and I put in seperatly. Archery bull in two units were what we put in for. We had 8 and 7 points. I wont believe it until we get the results though. I have seen the g&f do some fishy things in the past.

Like 270 said I don't care about Jim Zumbo himself. I don't know the man, and I haven't read many of his writings. But what bugs me is that we are becoming just as bad as the anti hunters and tree huggers. They take any opening and blow it way out of proportion to suit their needs. What the heck did the NRA and the other organizations that Zumbo worked for do? Just like the gun control fanatics, they took one statement and blew it all out of proportion. We are our worst enemy. Why would you want to cut off your nose to spite your face? There is only one line, and be damned if you take one step in any other direction. Well screw that. I don't need any organization or company to tell me how to think or act. I don't know Jim personally but I wish him the best and hope he doesn't kiss any butt. I hope he does well in spite of his set back.

I hate to say it but, this is a typical reaction by people who don't know the full details and want to pass judgement on someone just because he stated his point of view. This is a typical reaction in the hunting community. Any time someone states an opinion that differs from their own, they are branded a traitor, or ignorant. It would be nice if we lived in a society where we had free speech, and free ideas. I am sure Jim wishes he hadn't made the statements he did, but even if he actually belives in the statements why should we tar and feather him? My self I am sick of belonging to organizations that tell me how to vote, how to act, and how to think. I don't know Mr. Zumbo, but I will boycot all of the companies, and organizations that came down on him just because he stated his opinion. I am tired of living life the way others dictate. I am a hard core hunter and outdoorsman, I live and breath hunting. That being said, I will no longer belong to any organization that prevents people from free will and speech. I also will not patronize any company who treated Mr. Zumbo like they did.

Hey Rhino, did you take any pictures with yours, Jay's, and your brothers mounts all together? I know you picked them up all at the same time. If you did, how about posting them.

It goes to show that all of you who thought that this game and fish crap is on the up and up are full of crap. After not getting confirmation in the legislature, our wonderful governor has appointed a non hunter with no experience in such matters as a game commisioner. If you think that letting your left wing tree hugging governor appoint your game and fish commisioners is better than electing them yourself, well I guess I'll be running into to you, while hunting in some other state. After opposition from most of the states hunting organizations our tree hugging governor ignored those concerns and appointed Jennifer Martin to the Game and Fish Commision.

Sure hope someone sues the game and fish over this. Like I said as long as there is no way to monitor them how does anyone feel like it is on the up and up. They will never get their crap together as long as we take it sitting down.

If the hunters of Arizona do not demand an elected commisioner to the Game and fish Dept. then you can decide to quit hunting in the next 20 years. I have lived and hunted in Arizona for over 40 years and I have seen our way of life taken over by greedy government. Since applying the draw process the mule deer population has decreased drastically. People don't realize that there is absolutely no game management happening today. The only management program being directed by the Game and Fish Dept. is the management of the millions and millions of dollars, and job preservation. Since the 1970's draw when I saw about 1600 tags a year given out in unit 24A have I seen the deer population at even close to the old days. When you herd people into areas they wouldn't have hunted you play havoc on the deer population. In the old days people hunted on the weekend because you knew you would hunt again next year if you didn't fill your tag. Now if you get drawn you hunt every day of the season because it might be 10 years before you hunt again.