AZAV8ER

How big a difference? Recoil? You have similar weight bullets going near similar MV and .013 bore difference, how much worse is recoil? Dope? at 800 yards you have to dial up for the 6.5 lets say 15 MOA of dope, for the 270 you are saying its to big a challenge to dial 2-3 more MOA? Wind drift. Now the advantage creeps in, but at 800 yards you still need to get the wind right. If you get it wrong by more than 3 mph 6.5 won't save you, now just a gut shot vs nice clean through and through the lungs. Guess you can hope that gut shot catches a lot of liver and you can track for 50-70-120 yards. At 800 yards don't you still need to get your distance, wind and drop calculation spot on? 308 or 7MM RUM don't you still need to dope accurately? Is clicking up 60 clicks that much harder that dialing up 70 clicks?

I get that .264 is sexier (but for me not by near enough) than the .277 (.013 must be a heck of a magical difference). KISS go with 270WSM, heck Hornady 270 WIN 140 SST Superformance has a MV of 3100FPS. Hornady 270 WIN PH 145 ELDX going out the muzzle at + 2900 FPS. Yeah Yeah 6.5 does this and that better (fractionally) but when its all said and done the 6.5 short whatever and fat 2boot still needs a dial up and a wind calculation at 600, 700 or 800 yds no different ( well a COUPLE clicks different) than the 270 WSM. So if complicating things and sweating this and that is fun have at it but the WSM 270 is an easy solution. I get it no bragging rights in something available and mundane.

Evidently the Dino extinction was not "big trouble". Having duck hunted all my life its been evident to me that some waterfowl are highly adaptable and some are very sensitive to just a narrow slice of environment. Take Mallards they are all over, very adaptable, then Canvasbacks are very particular and thus not doing well. Buzzards are still around a lot but Condors are obviously struggling with the changes. we should be sensitive to our environment and what we affect but at some point observe, analyze do our best not to make things worse but if Condors go away Vultures still fill that niche. The Mexican Grey Wolf is a great example. Turning ourselves inside out to reintroduce when its just a tough environment in the southwest. We have Lions, Bears, BobCats, Coyotes and hunters all doing ok. Maybe the wolves just don't fit anymore? Sad but true. Look there is no bringing Grizzly's back to the AZ or central CALI, just not practical.

having my nephew get on the site and contact you he has 97 Tacoma with 157,00 ish mile, SR5 with manual 4X4 v6 extended cab and he is the second owner. He has been good about upkeep, new ignition wires, redid the valve covers, new seals in the axels, that kind of work. Good mileage left on BF Goodrich tires.

Checking with my nephew in Tucson, he might have one for sale in that price range.

yep remember watching it. Must have been 13 or so.

James AlexanderThom "Sign Talker" "From Sea to Shining Sea" "Panther in the SKY" Allan W. Eckert "The Frontiersman" Ian W. toll "Six Frigates" "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" by James D. Hornfischer "The GI Offensive in Europe" "A Higher Call" "

copper bullets pose significant fire hazard rmrs_rp104.pdf

Birds are very susceptible to lead poisoning because fragment/shot that are ground into powder in the gizzard and ends up passing into the bloodstream. Grew up with my 4 brothers and sister chomping on bird shot from dove and duck. Usually you spit them out, maybe one or two went down the throat? So far all going on 60 plus years old with two PHD's and 5 master degrees among us. If not for that lead poisoning we could be ruling the WORLD. (yes lead is not good for you, but what little you are exposed to from consuming game does not appear to have been overly detrimental)

I get the lead ban, been dealing with it for decades in my duck hunting. I still remain somewhat skeptical based purely on my own hunting experience. Almost all game I have harvested or seen harvested has been bullets through the chest. Some fragment but maybe half and allot of these fragments are in the shoulder meat or in "Jellied" lung tissue. We pack out all the meat, leaving spine and ribs sometimes. Practically ZERO lead in guts, whatever might be in lungs is in soup that melds into the dirt. How much lead is injected from bird shot in jack rabbits that are just shot and left? Maybe there are more gunshot deer that die and don't get recovered than I realize.

Used 30-06, 270, 280 and 7-08. Using the 270 for a bunch of years now, firstly the rifle I now have is very accurate. Secondly modest recoil/plenty punch for Coues. So what do you have that is accurate and you can stand to hump up and down the hills for several days?

Just ordered my second APA little bastard. It vents out the side and you can put it on easy. Shot a PRS match this weekend with it for the first time, went from mid pack out of 50 60 shooters to #10 overall. Big fan of the APA.

True, and I agree but there are those mornings that are cold enough to have you shivering uncontrollably if not prepared. Try and get a shot off as light gets good enough when you can't control your shaking. Been that cold several early AM's during early NOV hunts, luckily never cost me a shot but sure made an impression.

Lots of glassing lots of patience.

Plan on posible bitter cold in the AM, high 20's to low 30 then T shirt mid day. It could rain and in all my years (50 yrs) got snowed on once. Windy possible. Or just 40's at night and high 70's in the day. I am not much on heavy gear and like to hike in a ways then glass and move glass and move several times in a day. Light tripod and 10X40 ZEISS for me. Glass draws and slopes. I have several deer pop out of draws or brush just 50-60 yards below me as I am glassing. Hills sides you glass for an hour or so will all of a sudden produce deer out of the blue. They might have just left their beds or come over ridge or simply moved out of a thicket. Thats why I pass on a spotting scope, just figure the deer I miss just downslope is more important to spot that the one 1500 yards away. I have hunted in the Rockies at 8000/11000 feet and found it easier hiking in general that hiking 6000 FT in the AZ chasing Coues. Good boots that you can stand to hike in all day over hard rocky ground a big must.

Phoenix Custom Rifles in Tempe Kieth has done some work for me and have shot with him in matches. I love his work and how he goes about it, good guy. He would be perfect for what you need done.

Have you hunted public lands out west before? If you hike in and camp you probably need to pack in all the water you need. Have you looked at a BLM map for that part of the state? You driving out? I have had ranchers lock gates and mess up access last bunch years, if its a main BLM or FS road might be ok.

Shame it is so complicated to get a class. Took mine in 1964

I have a S4 Gear LOCKDOWN bino harness Never used I am near 7th ST & Bell I can text you pictures

Utah Gun Exchange is a good place to list guns FS. It gets views from neighboring states. Utah used to have a nice online classified adds on another site but they went all PC and stopped it. Some enterprising folks started up UGA.

I try to glass in the direction of the deer. In the early AM glass where you figure they will be feeding. Mid AM early afternoon glass where you think they are bedded or moving to-from bed/H2O. late evening where they will pop out of bed to feed some more. Just have to get out learn your country make plans and readjust plan as you learn more.

I have 2 270's with Lilja barrels, a lightweight and a "Sendero" weight . Both shoot lights out .3 to .5 groups.

Rule #1: If you want to lecture the Kiddies be ready to roll with the sarcastic remarks irreverent retorts.

Not claiming Moral Ground here, not making judgments on whats "good' or "bad". I am just not sure specifically setting up and setting out to hunt 500/600 or beyond is fair chase. This is the second post that goes on about how the deer has about zero chance of detecting danger, that indicates the lack of fair chase. Now if you see it different then lets have an open honest discussion on this.

If you can get the Leupold you described then that would be a very nice set up for your rifle. I have a very light 270 WIN with the small Swarovski 3-9 Z3 and out to 300/350 its been enough. Going out to 500 I rather have what you are looking at in the Leupold. Good luck, good hunting.