stanley

Sounds like stretching and maybe some 'ice / water bottle / ball' therapy is where I'll start. I'm a complete 'shot phobic' (like seriously, it's kind of a problem...), so I'll pray it doesn't eventually come to injections. AZkiller, thanks for the tip on Feetures. I have a buddy who is kind of hard core (trail runner, rim to rim stuff, etc..) and he mentioned that as well. I'll check it out. Picked-up some specialty heel inserts at REI yesterday also. CouesFanatic & AllBoutHuntn, thanks for your respective professional opinions. You guys both mentioned the 'increased activity' theme, and for sure that matches my case. Though in fairly decent shape, I had definitely picked-up big time on my routine relative to what my 'normal' had been for a long time. Big thanks for all the info and replies! Truly appreciate the help/perspective. Best virtual community on the web! S.

Camping without a campfire isn't quite the same, but is of course mandatory during times like these, IMO. Also a big YES vote from me for closing the forest as/when deemed necessary as well. Several years ago while on our annual dads-kids camping trip in Utah, there were fire restrictions. Initially we were all kind of taken aback by it, and were thinking how lame it would be without a campfire. We ended-up putting a Coleman lantern in the campfire ring each night though, and still did our normal guitars, jokes, games as usual. Roasted marshmallows on the gas stove next to the 'fire'. Was a great time! Pray for rain!!! S.

I'll be there Monday. My brother said he showed up a little late tonight. Said any questioning of motives or disagreements was treated very defensively rather than looked at as trying to come up with different ideas. Said the guy that came up with the $2 habitat stamp had the board stumped like they never thought that was a possibility (or they dont want it a possibility) add a $5 stamp or license increase on all licenses and they'll have money coming out of their ears and the tags can be left alone. If they insist on the tags its obvious their one mission is the tags and only the tags. Who was your brother? The habitat stamp idea works. I will say that I don't think that everyone on C&P is in it to get more tags to rich people, but I do believe the rich people have them persuaded. The question asked if I opposed the current raffle / auction model, I don't know that I have ever considered it because it has always existed in my memory. After some thought my question is this, where does it stop? We could certainly raise more money for conservation if we auctioned every tag to the highest bidder but then our model would cease to exist. I do not believe that the integrity of the model is worth sacrificing for any mount of money. I believe there are other ways. I was there, and I'll be there on Monday (Good to see you Flatlander.... You too, azcouesandelk.). BC777, I'm guessing your brother was the one who came in about 1/2 way through (with his wife or girlfriend?). Anyway, I didn't get a chance or take time to shake many hands. Will try harder to connect with guys on Monday. I think it is important for those who show-up to meet and connect (possibly to help organize in the future...). I liked the idea of $2 (or $1 or $5....). Earlier in the meeting, they indicated that there is some kind of cap that the department has on their ability to raise the overall cost of a license. That would be one of the only possible barriers to adding that premium to the license. (But the sentiment was that the department likely still has head-room under current legislation to raise the cost a bit...). My question for them was if they raise the money via a 'stamp' or 'tax/levy' on each license, what are the laws/regulations regarding how that money can//will be spent. No matter how the money is raised, I am very interested in understanding the guidelines or rules that would govern specifically how the money would be spent. Another conclusion I came to in my mind is that while pondering the discussion, it occurred to me that 'education' might not be enough to really make much of a difference anyway. Honestly, there are so many liberal or 'passive' (non hunting) citizens in the state, that if HSUS comes again with a strong push, just getting a bunch of educational PR out there honestly might really not do much at all to sway the general public. I can see it solidifying the hunting populations passion, but the key is getting average 'joe public' to side with hunters if/when HUSU or any other organization comes back with a push to ban any kind of hunting (cat or otherwise...). I'm just pessimistic that enough of the general public could be swayed with an education/PR push. My feeling is that money should be raised somehow, and controlled by an organization outside of the G&F. That way the org would not be bound by the same rules/regulations as the Department. Possibly freeing-up money to hire lobbying firms, petition firms, etc. as opposed to just spending the money on 'education/PR' and hoping to sway average joe citizen. I hope the group takes more time to entertain some different ideas (like the ones that Flatlander listed....). At this time, I am still opposed to the raffle/auction idea. This is based partially just because in my gut I think it's wrong to auction off the right to hunt to the highest bidder, and partially because I am concerned about oversight and whether it would even make a difference if used on 'education'. Like I said, I will be there Monday! I hope more guys will show-up. S.

Yup, I'll see you there. I'm definitely in the 'old men' club too (my daughter would argue for crude/rude also....)! Look for the skinny balding/gray dude in jeans and navy golf shirt.

Tomorrow, the 17th. 6:30PM at Bass Pro Shops. https://azdeer.org/events-calendar/

I'll be there tomorrow night. Maybe meet a few folks (and see a few old familiar faces from the ADA). I hope is that there will be good, constructive information sharing. I also hope that EVERYONE keeps in mind something I've heard on occasion here and there; "We have two ears and one mouth for a reason! " Listen!! My gut tells me that I have already made up my mind, but I'm going to try to keep my old biases in check. I want to listen to as much as I can hear, and then figure out where I will place my support. I sincerely hope for a positive outcome. S.

I just completed the survey. Who is going to the ADA meeting tomorrow?? I think I'm going to try to make it.... S.

Have seen some in the Stoneman Lake area. A little NW of the lake. Haven't been in there in a couple of years though, so who knows at this point. Might be worth a try though! Duh..... Just realized you said 'recent'. Well, good luck anyway!! Hope you guys get on to some!! S.

LOTS of opinions and information (or mis-information ) out there on this in a very short time! I spoke with Dave from the Arizona Deer Association this morning to get his take, and hence purportedly the ADA's take. At the end of that call I still had not changed my opinion regarding the auctioning off of tags, and I told him that. But, I definitely appreciated him sharing his thoughts and passion on the subject. For me, I am just vehemently opposed to the idea of auction tags. Partly because I see the chatter regarding the situation in Utah. Partly because of the bias I have based on some of the exact same folks pushing the same type of idea in 2012. Partly because the spirit of auctioning off the right to hunt to the highest bidder just doesn't seem to sit well with me. All of these reasons are simply my personal opinion, and mean a lot to me but likely no one else. I do however, agree that it could be of great value to have a funding source to help lobby/publicize/'educate' on issues that affect hunting. My vote would be to take some of the tags strictly for raffle purposes (NOT auction). For all I care, take 1% of the tags. Sell raffle tickets and have some legit org gather as much money as possible from that. Use the money according to the bylaws laid down, with the goal of protecting our right to hunt as we always have. An additional idea is what Flatlander mentioned; Have industry groups providing lobby/support money! Amazing the passion here. My advice is for ALL to get involved and make your voices heard, one way or the other. For or against, make your voice heard. NOT just here on this outstanding forum, but to the people and in the meetings that count! The meetings and discussions down the road that are sure to come as this thing works through the process. Good luck to us all!!! S.

Thanks much for taking the time to talk on the phone this morning, Dave! I appreciate the information and context. S.

Thanks, Dave! Running for a business dinner now, but will try to call you later tonight or at some point tomorrow. I really DO want to understand it fully! Stan

Nothing like the main village idiot getting it. Dave needed to spell it out for you. The problem is that what Dave apparently told bonecollector777 deviates from what Pete was recorded saying in the podcast. The summary of Dave's input above makes it sound like the only auction tags would be the ones that are currently allocated. ("..... removing one of the auction tags and turning it into a unit specific auction tag that only can be hunted during a particular season and that money would be able to be given to this new fund. He also said they would auction off 1 lower quality October coues and other lower quality tags and that money would be given to this new fund.") Pete made it very clear that there would be auction tags out of the new proposed allocation of tags. NOT all raffle. This is different from how Dave is trying to explain it. That being said, I fully concede that at this point much of the information in this thread is basically "he said" hear-say. Much of it 3rd or 4th person at this point. Another reason for folks to get actively involved and show-up at the meetings to get the low-down in person! S.

What he said! I've known Pete since the 1970s. He's probably done more for conservation in this state than 99.9% of the members here. He's one of the reasons that more than twice as many hunters get to chase desert sheep now than in the 1970s. Idiots? Ummm, only if we let a few people move forward with something that was fought and defeated soundly several years ago. Making demeaning statements about guys on this site who are passionate about this topic is an interesting tact. Good luck with that... As stated by bonecollector777, just because Pete has done LOTS for wildlife does not at all mean that we need to agree with him or the group he represents. Seems like that would be idiotic to me.

That's good input. I appreciate Dave's perspective. That being said, I'm not sure if you listened to the podcast or not, but Pete ABSOLUTELY stated 'auction' tags. The auction tags were veiled in the raffle tags.... He said something like: "The 'great majority' would be raffle tags...". Don't know what the definition of 'great majority' is, as it is all relative to the overall population of tags. He also compared it to the 'Utah model', and if you have followed that stuff, there are many many people who are not at all happy about it. Constant feeling of cronyism and special interests....

Ugh.... Just realized the 'Contact Me' link just kind of takes you to a form to fill-out. Good start, but I'll also try to get their e-mail addresses. S.

Here is the G&F page with the list of commissioners. There is a "Contact Me" link for each one. S. https://www.azgfd.com/agency/commission/members/

Yes, good idea. Also, IMO, the e-mails we want are the G&F Commissioners! According to the podcast, the commissioners are going to discuss this at their May commission meeting and their May commissioners retreat (whatever that is....). I'll try to find the e-mail addresses of the commissioners! S.

Yup. This is directly from the azsfw.org site: "Out of our joint efforts, Conserve and Protect Arizona was formed, which is a 501©(4) organization whose mission is to protect our conservation heritage. Two of the key components they will concentrate on include educating the non-hunting public on the importance of scientific wildlife management at the AZ Game & Fish Department and securing a legislative remedy to ensure the AZ Game & Fish Department can use science to manage wildlife, and not be subjected to emotion based ballot box management. https://conserveandprotectaz.org/" Neither site lists the specific names of any of the board members and/or officers (At least if the names are listed, I cannot find them...). There is a list of 'Members, Affiliates, and Partners', but that is just a big list of basically most of the sportsman/hunting organizations in the state. This left a bad taste in my mouth several years ago. I was a member of the Arizona Deer Association. As a result of the board of ADA supporting AZSFW, the organization is listed as an 'Affiliate/Partner' of AZSFW. I did NOT support that, but just because the board of the ADA shared many common names, the ADA 'supports' AZSFW. It started to smell like cronyism, and really turned me off. If you do not agree with more public tags going to auction, then make your voice heard!!!! Do not remain silent! S.

Big bag of raw trail mix, often with M&M's mixed in. Maybe a couple of apples and those little oranges. Payday and jerky. LOTS of water. Then a HUGE hot meal back at camp before bed (usually mesquite grilled veggies and meat).

Ummm.... Maybe a dumb question, but does that mean that tags are mailed? (Watching-out for a couple of cow tags for my daughter/son....) S.

Too funny, man!!!! I thought I was the only one!!

Right there with you Dennis. Our property back the national forest and when these idiots think they need a camp fire when its 70 degrees its just a recipe for disaster. Im sure when this is brought in front or the administration and they deny it for economic reasons and then one erupts and takes out a community its ground for class action. Most of these citidiots just dont understand how dry it is and just how fast it can go up. I'm no lawyer, but I'm not sure how that would be grounds for a class action suit. Just because there is a group of folks impacted, does not automatically qualify it for class action. Seems like the action in that case should be against the perpetrator (if man caused), as opposed to the government agency that didn't close the national forest and protect homes close the forest. In this 'lawsuit and sue happy' society though, who knows.... For the record, if the fire danger is deemed high enough I think they should definitely close it! (They've done that before, right? I mean, I think there is precedence...) Turkey season, fishing season, whatever. S.

I think I have a solution; Ignore lowball offers!

So many things are cool and AWESOME about this!! Thanks for sharing! S.