Non-Typical Solutions

Thanks.....back to the topic at hand. Matty, those are some respectable photos of deer, were you just not able to get on him like you wanted? One of these days I am going to have to break down and try the trail cam thing. Looks like it could become a whole new sport, I am very impressed with the photos people post on here of the game they are keeping track of. Here is a little different twist on the topic. Bobcats, I have seen more bobcat in the last couple of years. Rarely ever saw them, but seems like they are on the up. One thing I have noticed though with game is what I call the California Effect.....as people move out into habitat...more game is seen and then more game starts to disappear. The only critter with the exception to that rule would be Wyle Coyote....

How about it Tony, you get the thread started and I'll bet we can get some good stuff???

Whoo hooo, I did it...thanks Tony and all, for allowing me to drag down memory lane.

Matty, thanks for bringing that to my attention......dang that will change my Christmas plans. Tony, Sorry about the photo, first time to try and post a photo and no luck, I'll keep trying.

Tony, Here is a shot of me and my brothers and a nephew. I am the goober in the middle holding the pole with the pokadot cap. 1969 at Reservation Lake I think, I am a whopping 9 years old top to bottom. Probably the first boat fishing trip of my life. Oh the memories though. Sorry about getting sidetracked about the deer Bill. I haven't been kicking those hills as long as you have but I agree with your assessment of that area. My dad used to rent a cabin from the Wiltbanks there in Greer, if we weren't able to get a cabin then we threw out the tents, which led to the idea of building a cabin. My dad spends April til the first snow flies up at Alpine, what a haven that has become. Matty, after getting your PM, I might recommend going in December. The last few years have been so warm and dry(hopefully that will change), but we have seen alot of bucks (alot meaning more than normal but not some unbelieveable number). If you need a place to get out of the cold while you are up in that area, you are more than welcome to stop in during Christmas break.

You did your boys right by getting them up there, looks like they are carrying on the tradition. I gotta run, will have more later, thanks Tony. Jeff

In the late 60's early 70's we only fished the Little Colorado right there in Greer, we never went lake fishing until the summer my dad started building his summer home there in Alpine. Then, if there weren't any black, black clouds in the sky to the west we would head to Big Lake and fish from the bank on the back side. They have since built a boat dock there and ruined the cove. Anyway, I grew up in southern New Mexico and didn't do any hunting in AZ until the early 80's. We hunted down in the lower part of 27 down by Maple peak and the Smoothing iron. Then I got way off up at Ash Fork and got introduced to unit 10, that changed hunting for me. I became greedy, wanted a bigger buck every season and enjoyed the heck out of trying to find one great big buck to hang and finally got a fairly respectible mulie, nothing record breaking or such, but big in my book. Now I am back in the White Mountain area, I still put in for unit 10 first choice and then 27 second. I love unit 27..... Thanks for the pics, brings back such memories, the old zebco 303......and look...oars for the boat, nice......

Sorry about that , still living in the yesterday, people who drive through there now don't even know that place existed. My dad used to take care of a church campgound over by Buffalo Crossing. Brentwood is the name of the camp. Have driven that old 666 hundreds of times between taking care of that camp and looking for animals. We play animal bingo with the kids, make up a card and then go driving. We have actually located the bighorn sheep in that area over the last few Christmas's there. Man, they are beautiful animals.

No, it fell to a rubble and then a land developer came in and cleaned up the mess. Course, now there are some very expensive looking homes going in just down the meadow from there. The one place is just beautiful, has a barn and stalls for horses, etc. But.....I fear it is just the begining

I forgot to mention another point of intrest, and those of you who have been fishing and hunting and camping up in the White Mountain area know this is true. In the mid 70's, you almost had to drive up to Reservation Lake, up underneath Baldy to see an elk. Deer on the otherhand you could see down lower, and nice big deer too. I'm not saying that we have come full circle on the deer numbers, but I will say that I think things are on the upswing. At least for that area....

My first vacation in the White Moutains I was 6 months old, and my mom let me get sunburnt something fierce. Been kicking around that country every since, helped my dad build a home up there in the late 70's. Now I spend Christmas up at Alpine, have been for the last 15 years. We drive the roads alot and look for game. Do some hiking looking for antlers now and then. It is a family thing. About 10 years ago it seemed that the elk had just taken over, everywhere we went, elk everywhere and very few deer. Just this past year we saw fewer elk on our drives and remarkably, we saw quite a few deer. I would tend to believe that what we have seen over the last 15 years is a cycle of some sort. Used to see alot of deer, the elk moved in, and then it appears that there might be a swing in favor of the deer. We actually did see a Mexican Gray Wolf one trip, right there by Old Beaverhead Lodge

So here is today's story. I am getting ready to send my 10 year old off to school this morning. His mom had just baked a bunch of cupcakes to take for his teacher because it is his teachers birthday. We told our son that we couldn't bring the cupcakes before lunch and would have to wait until after lunch to bring the cupcakes. His questioning mind then asks "Why?". Why do we have to wait until after lunch? Because it is against the law for the school to serve any kind of treats before lunch. "Why" again from the 10 year old. Because the state has decided it is too unhealthy for kids to have treats before lunch. During this whole converstaion, I am sitting drinking milk and eating leftover cupcakes for breakfast. In general, we are the victims of our own upbringing, what we do our kids do and they carry on the tradition, whatever that tradition might be. If we shoot game from the vehicle, our kids will as well. If we practice unethical hunting methods, our kids probably will too. If I eat cupcakes for breakfast....my kids are probably going to do the same thing. What does this have to do with archery tags.......I'm not sure. Jeff

And the pressure will shift. I still say 1500 rifle tags in 36B has to be too many, it isn't just an archery problem, it's like it was said earlier, it is deer population versus growing hunter population. Gotta tighten up the belt somewhere and it probably should be addressed in both methods of hunting.

Times are changing, and although it may be hard to swallow we have to either support the system or get involved with changing the system I like what you had to say Mr. .270.

Don't slam me on this rifle hunters (me), but I believe that archery hunters in general have a higher success rate due to a couple of factors. 1-Less hunters in the field, therefore a better chance at an actual hunt instead of being involved in an involuntary deer drive. 2-Archery hunters tend to do their homework more than rifle hunters do, not to say that there aren't some dang good rifle hunters out there that don't do their homework. 3-Once opening morning hits with all the road hunters, the general population of rifle hunters don't tag out and only those who have done their homework, example, where the deer go after opening morning, go ahead an fill their tags. It used to be, 10 years ago that you could put in for a southern unit as your last choice and guarantee a tag, not so true anymore. More people equals less chance of getting drawn and AZ is a hot spot for growth right now. I'll be people who have lived in the phoenix area used to be able to hunt quail, dove etc, not to far from home, but now you gotta drive for an hour just to get out of dodge. You really want deer population to go up....kill a lion!!!!!!

I'm new on the board, and new to the coues hunting, pressure, illegals and all other factors that play into a hunting unit, specifically the southern units. But here is my two cents worth. Unit 36B in the month of October-1025 whitetail rifle permits, 175 mulie rifle permits and 90 javalina hunter permits November-1025 whitail rifle permits, 225 mulie rifle permits and 60 javalina hunter permits December-200 whitetail rifle permits This does not take in to account any archery tags that go to 36B. I don't know much at all about unit 36B, looks kind of small geographically, but can a unit like this take a pounding like that? I am asking because I don't know. I have hunted unit 10 muledeer for years, but that area is huge and you can usually find a canyon or ridge that you can hunt without being too interupted, it is full of road hunters so if you have a notion to get out of your truck, you can usually actually hunt. I worry about government clamping down on priviledges, but maybe we do overhunt some areas. I do know one thing, once they take it away, they don't usually give it back.

Guess I should have taken you up on that scouting trip Casey, sorry I was booked up here with work and getting my kid through hunter safety course. He did pass the test, so instead of my wife having a tag, she is going to sign it over to the little guy. He is pumped and of course, so am I. Good job on the dove hunting trip.

Uummm...AMEN

OK, we'll just go ahead and ignore the problem.....anybody got a phone number for the BP they will share with me? It's all about hunting, and dealing with the hunt. Some of you out there it might be a stoll in the park for you cause you have been dealing with it for years. Some of us haven't so cut us a little slack if you don't mind.

Don't have a problem with doing my own yard work, or fixin my own roof. Hoed my fair share of cotton in my day and shoveled my fair share of pig cr@6. I even worked side by side with a few illegals. They were a very respectful people, worked hard, didn't take what didn't belong and if you didn't see them, you would never know how they got here or how they got back to Mexico. Teaching school up at Ash Fork we had alot of illegals working in the quarries out in the hills. When BP was coming through town, parents would frantically come to the school to get their kids so they wouldn't get picked up. My frustration comes with what is happening to the land, hospitals, public schools. I don't have a problem with someone who wants to come to this country legally, contribute to the system and reap the benefits of living in the best country in the world. I really don't care what nationality they are or where they come from. Packing drugs.........that falls into a whole different catagory, no punishment is good enough for those sorry individuals I don't care what supply and demand says.

Who is the builder of your gun?

NICE

I'm reading an old Revolutionary War Novel with my 10 year old......he is pretty facinated with the way the "rebels" stuck their necks out on behalf of liberty and freedoms. I like the idea of calling this stuff in, I am going to program the BP number into my cell phone for when I am hunting down there. They are going to hear it from me when I see activity. I really don't blame the men working BP, I blame the system. And since I don't have a tag myself, I am packing my camera with me. When we went down there a couple of weeks ago, we visited with the BP for quite some time, it was probably about 1:00 in the morning. They claim that they collect an average of 300 illegals a shift and they run three shifts in a 24 hour period. They said, "we have guys out in the washes right now, 1:00am, picking up illegals

I don't get what is so hard to get about this business, we need to start emailing photos like this to Napalitano, McCain, Bush, just flooding their computers with the damage and distruction that is occuring in our southern border areas. I have to admit that since my wife drew the 36B tag, my eyes have been opened.

Got my deer tag money, not worth the paper printed on.....but there is still life....my wife and son have 36B tags in october, nothing like scouting brand new country.....looking very forward to the trip and hunt.....