mace

I can tell you its gonna be extremely tough. If you are going to do this I really hope you will have some help available for packing if you get one down. The country is very rough and they are usually in some big nasty canyons. There are several people that hunt them in there, very gruelling hunt...BUT, at least you are hunting! Use it as great motivation to finally start that excercise program you have been wanting to do

Congrats on your tag. Wish I knew the unit better so I could offer help but hope it goes great for you.

With all due respect bc777, your analogy is off base. We arw talking about an oppurtunity here that we only get the prize( elk hunting) if we get " lucky" enough to win the lottery. In a raffle, the prize is usually something that any one of us can go buy any day of the week. All of us here must absolutely love the dream of going elk hunting due to the number of posts. I really believe if you are able to step back and look at this objectively, the only way that it can be truly FAIR, is with preference points. I know this isnt very popular with some folks given that we want to hold out hope that we might be the one to go on a long run of luck. However, this hope is only based on our belief that somehow it makes sense that I should have more oppurtunity to go archery bull hunting than someone else?! We all live here and pay taxes and go camping and everything else that goes along with it, I just think we should all have the same oppurtunities to go hunting. Please dont take this as a rant or a pushback, I have been lucky enough to have some great tags in my life. I just see the odds of getting drawn steadily decreasing and I would love to be able to count on going hunting a few more times in my career.I would think as Sportsman, most of us feel this way. Also understand that I realize this is probably never going to happen...

Only way to make it a truly fair system is to go to a preference point system IMO. I do not think its right that someone can draw tags 4 out of 6 years while someone else doesn't receive even one during that same period of time. This is the system that I would prefer here in Az. We have incredible Elk hunting here, and its a shame that people don't get to experience it because they aren't "lucky" enough to win the lottery. The only reason I can see people rejecting this system would be greed.; Under a preference point system, you still have to apply every year, so the G&F still gets the same revenue, and you would KNOW that every X amount of years, you are hunting. I doubt the state would ever change the system but I really think if we are interested in being fair, this is; the way to go...also, I think the only people that should be able to transfer a tag to a youth hunter should be the kids parents. Too many people have several family members applying with no intent of taking the tag. Bottom line is, all of us here love Elk hunting and I just want it to be a fair chance for all.

Nada for me but my 12 year old son pulled his first elk tag, Unit 1 late rifle bull. I simply could not be more excited. I have always hoped that I would get toto take him on a bull hunt, I cant wait to make these memories!

So was anyone able to get results last night? I cannot believe anyone took my post serious at all...just to clarify it is a joke. I had quite a laugh this morning when I saw a couple people actually wanting to believe it! Its just so hilarious how impatient we are so I couldnt resist....best of luck.

Wow, 7 points isnt much to pull that tag, very lucky indeed. Time to buy lottery tickets as well because your luck is running high! Congrats and best of luck. It will be a great hunt.

I heard from a VERY VERY reliable source that the results are going to post tonight between 1 am and 3 am. They will then close and come up every night during these times. This will be the only way to get results until they arrive in the mail. Good luck in finding out and remember that this is definately the pattern that will be used.

Sent you a pm yesterday...

Can anyone tell me what the top few scores are in B&C for a straight up 3 point(8 point Eastern count)? I am just curious where mine would fall among them. Thanks.

Thanks Becker, it would be neat to know. I didnt think there would be very many in that class...

I knew they didnt specify that, I was just curious because I though they said how many scoreable points it had...just hoping someone might know. Definately not trying to relive the moment just always wondered how he stacked up.

He is 131 7/8 gross, 121 0/8 net. Had him officially measured several years ago just never sent in the papers...just curious about where he falls against other 3 points. Doesnt really matter, just curious.

In talking with G&F, I guess it is very common for cards to get rejected. Dont know if this is the reason for alot of them or not....the bank said that if its within 15 minutes for the exact same amount they think the vendor is running a duplicate charge, thus they reject it.

I wanted to pass on a little information I just learned about from my bank. I used my debit card and applied online. I had 3 applications submitted. All showed they went through and I have the confirmation numbers from G&F. A day later I looked at my account and noticed one of the pending transactions for $7.50was gone. I called the bank and found out that if they recieve transactions for the same amount and from the same Vendor within 15 minites of each other they will reject all but the first one....hope this helps someone out there.

I am with Bank of America. Like I said, I used my debit card, dont know if its different with credit cards or not. I am really nervous too, I called them and explained what the situation is and it sounds like theres not much I can do about it. I dont know exactly how the draw works as far as how they post if you are drawn but if they all hit at the same time I may be screwed...I knew better than to apply online!!

Great stuff here guys! Looking so hard for a loophole to try and gain annother advantage?! Funny. How many of our parents or grandparents combed the the rules in hopes of finding loopholes? We have far better equipment than ever before and yet we are trying to circumumvent laws...if you feel you must, then use SALT. The law is only confusing if you want it to be! Changing packages to get around laws....priceless!

I can honestly tell you that I wish we had deer numbers that could handle outrageous harvest numbers, I really do but unfortunately thats just not Az...I guess maybe I will leave you with just one final thought on this whole thing. you said you have kids, as a hunter I will take the liberty of assuming that you look forward to sharing many future archery hunts with them, correct? If so, maybe way out what is more important, to have the chance to spend alot of the winter chasing bucks with them in the future or booking every last client that you can now to fill up that brochure book. I have seen what damage a greedy outfitter can do to oppurtunity and to local populations of animals. And no, I am not saying this is what Wards outfitters is. On the contrary, I hope you are the kind that wants to see all of our future generations get to have the same experiences we have enjoyed here. Guess in the end it all comes down to what is important to each of us. I am done with this, and to Steven I hope you and your kids get to have some neat experiences in the future together.

Never said I couldnt find deer Steven, I am quite capable thank you. Is what I did state was that the numbers are way down. Its obvious that you have alot of heartburn with G&F and like I said I dont quite understand that but oh well. I never said spwcifically unit 29, but it is an example of what is going to happen to our bowhunting oppurunities, only it will end up having to draw,IMO, if things keep going the way they are.

Amanda, noone talked about trying to be unsuccessful, and the point of legal hunting is exactly my point. Trying to invent a bait to circumvent the law brings into question the integrity of an individual does it not? I know sponsors are important to this site so no surprise that I cant call BS here but I would challenge evwryone to think about whats taking place here and think of what the outcome of this topic is going to be. You know as well as I do we are going to lose here because certain people are more interested in making money than being responsible. Sorry but thats my opinion.

Thank you bowhunter and same to you. Good luck in the draws!!

The difference is baiting is not legal. This whole thing began because Steven got pissy because someone asked him if the baiting ban was going to hurt his success rates. He responded by calling him a coward and saying that baiting has almost nothing to do with his success but, by the way he has been working on a new "salt based bait" that as he understands it should be legal under the new law. It was extremely hard for me to believe that baiting was not a large part of his operation, and ultimately his success rates, so I called him on it. As you stated, success numbers have increased, but nowhere near the numbers he is posting. Of all of the "advantages" you listed, none of them compare to baiting except maybe sitting water IMO. The big difference is that sitting water has always been legal....this whole thing just rubs me because of the loss of oppurtunity for someones personal gain and make no mistake that is what it is. Im still just so hung up on why, if baiting isnt something that tremendously swings the odds, would anyone invest so much effort into trying to find a loophole in the law with his new bait? As I said before, it will be so intersting to see all of the G&F bashing on this site when the draw comes and we lose something so incredible.

Desertbowhunter the reason that I posted was because Steven was bashing a guy for simply stating that maybe the bait ban would hurt...then a couple of the other followers dumped on him as well. So he is an outfitter? Big deal. He has no more right than you or I do. My whole point in this is that without some self regulation we are going to lose hunting oppurtunity. I guided hunts for several years and quit because I would rather spend that time hunting for myself and my family. It always gets messy when money gets involved in anything. A guy that loves hunting can end up hurting the sport we all love because he feels like he has to continue to book very large amounts of clients and then look for every single advantage,even baiting. IMO baiting deer should be banned completely, think Ive made that clear enough. I also havent what I would call "bash" anyone YET....I didnt call someone a coward or a DA, Steven and someone rlse did that, I am simply a guy that has hunted since I could hold a BB gun and absolutely love the liberal amount of time we are presently given to bow hunt here in AZ. Do you people really not believe that the G&F will havr any choice but to change their policy on OTC tags if the numbers he is promoting continues?! Come on. And since he has made the choice to outfit as a career then maybe those of us that hunt for other reasons should forfeit our tags so that he can book more clients? That must be what you mean right?

You can all give praise and act like all is well BUT dont come on here whining when G&F has no choice but to permit archery and we will have forever lost our oppurtunity to hunt so liberally here in Az. Steven, I have no idea why you dislike our G&F so much. Its actually kind of confusing to me, you get to guide what appears to be an unlimited amount of hunters each year and you have a whole lot of time to hunt each year, yet you want to gripe and complain about everything they do. The whole baiting thing is a joke, the way I always understood the law for my ehole life was that it was illegal but thats my opinion. There are always people who try and push the envelope and look for "grey areas" to give themselves an advantage. You all know as well as I do that with our deer numbers where they are and with outfitters pushing the harvest up to such high levels we will lose our over the counter oppurtunities. You should seriously think about this Steven instead of bashing G&F when you force their hand. And for information purposes, I hunt the same.units that Wards Outfitters hunts and have for 30+ years, the deer numbers are nowhere near where they used to be. This only drives my belief that the numbers you are boasting about, are unsustainable and will end up not only hurting me and my families oppurtunities but yours as well.

Im sure Im gonna get hammered for voicing my opinion on this, and thats fine, but I honestly think these kind of posts and these kind of numbers are going to ultimately lead to alot less oppurtunity for all of us in the future. Again, the name is Mason so I dont get accused of being a coward...