SunDevil

1st - there was a lawsuit about the King buck and whether it was poached or not. That is why it is not in the B & C records. 2nd - from what I have heard, both bucks were taken in the Coyotes. 3rd - I think Dan King's wife is Ed Stockwell's daughter. Could be wrong about the last 2 but pretty sure. CB

I have a unit 1 turkey tag that I probably am not going to use and would be more than willing to donate? Let me know if you are interested. CB

what about the top buck in the 2nd pic? He's no slouch either. Nice pics! Thanks for sharing. CB

they are also easier to see in the nice green grass, green ocotillos, etc. as opposed to the brown and grey colors we will have from Oct to next spring. CB

buy Duane Adams' book "How to Hunt Coues Deer". You can get it on this website. Great resource. CB

The draws for AZ and NM are tiered. They both have 'quality hunts'. You can put a 'quality hunt' as your first choice (AZ = December) and then a standard hunt as your second choice (AZ = Oct or Nov). Check the regs for draw odds and hunter success rates. Then it really comes down to your schedule and whether you want to be closer to Phoenix or Tucson. Probably should consider not hunting one of the units that border Mexico considering the problem we have with illegals and drug runners. CB

Would also guess not 90. I would say 87. Nice buck though - especially with a bow. Thanks for sharing and good luck. CB

Oh Dave, I suppose your right. About one thing. Maybe tax dollars didn't pay for the majority of these roads. But your definetly wrong about another and that is telling me not to share my opinion. If you go back to my original post you will see that all I was doing was providing information. Then you chimned in with your CAPS flying, started blaming the FEDS, defending the Klumps and all the other ranchers who lock gates to public roads. I don't think it is appropriate for you to be using this forum to be telling me what to do. As for the thing you are right about, in the instance of the Dos Cabezas, please don't try and tell me that the Klumps paid for that road. The Klumps are not miners and most of those roads lead to mine shafts. They also are not in the radio tower business and the remainder of the roads were pushed up to the top to install those towers that are up there. Like I said, as far as the Dos Cabezas goes, they own a little bit of land here and a little bit of land there and the road goes through a little bit of their land at the bottom and because of that they can lock it up. It's a bunch of crap. So using your logic, I buy a ranch that borders state, blm or FS land. There is a public road that leads through my property back to the public property. The previous owner left it open for everyone to use but guess what, I don't like people driving through my private land so I throw a lock on the gate. I didn't pay for the road but legally I can lock the gate until the government proves the road was there before my land was privately owned. Who knows how long it will take them to exert the time, money and resources to prove that. In the mean time, my good ole buddies and I have our own personal and private access to all the public land bordering my ranch we want. Oh and I forgot, no matter how nice you are when you call to ask for access through my locked gate, I will tell you to go pound sand. The scenario might be legal but it is still wrong. Unfortunately, it appears that in your world there is nothing wrong with it though. To bad. Like I said, hopefully you will not run into any locked gates when you are trying to access and enjoy our wonderful state.

ya think? NICE BUCK!!!

Also check out the manfrotto 718B. Have had it for several years and it is pretty nice. Fits in a day pack, real smooth, not to expensive. CB

Nice bucks! Thanks for sharing! The ear on the one that is up close is all tore up. CB

Dave, didn't know I was arguing. Just stating my "different" perspective with authoriti. Didn't know we were talking about miners? Mining companys usually don't lock the gates to roads that lead back into public property. Perfect case in point is the catchment road that leads to the top of the dos cabezas. It is just a couple miles down from the Klump's locked road and goes right through private mining land at the base of the mountain. And besides, the Klump's are not miners they are ranchers. Just because they inherited some claims doesn't make them miners. Like I said, I don't think anyone was holding a gun to their head forcing them to make the improvements they made. They did it out of choice. All I know is that it is extremely, extremely frustrating to try and go to some of the places I went to as a kid only to find locked gates. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, this is a big deal!!! Did you know that G & F has full time employees who's sole purpose is to work with land owners who have locked up access to public property only to try and get them to unlock their gates. That is crazy! Yes (and unfortunately) it is now necessary but what a waste of resources (time, energy, money, etc.). Also, redirecting roads around private property is a huge ordeal. Why do you think the new road into Long John canyon in the Chiricahuas made the Tucson news paper? Because it was a big deal!!! Finally, maybe you should have followed your own advice and thought twice before you "shared" your knowlingly unpopular opinion. I bet most of the people on this site at one time or another have gotten frustrated about access issues. If you go back to my original post, you will find that I was not stating any opinions, only providing a little history about the Klump's and the access issues with the Dos Cabezas. You are the one the chimned in with CAPITALS, solutions to the problem, fault finding and defense. And why would the "FEDS" have it in for the Klumps anyway? Or any of the other ranchers? Because that is what they all think (apparently you too). Trust me I know. My wife has a cousin who married a Klump. My wife also use to work in federal law enforcement. One time her cousin called her and asked her if she could find out if her phone was tapped. Hello? Do you have any idea what law enforcement has to do to get a wire tap? Ever heard of a grand jury? I see them every once and awhile at family reunions and they are always talking about how they have to hold their rancher meetings at secret places and times. And how they can't talk about their 'business' over the phone because they never know who might be listening. Let me guess, it is all a big chicken and pork conspiracy. The feds don't want people eating red meat. That is it. Glad I figured it out. Good luck on your unit 31 hunt in October. Hope you are able to get into all the spots you want to and don't run into any locked gates. I will be helping a couple buddies out in 30A. Probably the Dos Cabezas. We will probably walk the locked gate road to the top of the mountain and run into several people in vehicles who are some good ole boys and got the key from Klump. Later Dave, talk with you tomorrow. Chris.

Dave, for the most part I understand the whole private property thing. What gets me fired up though is the whole cutting off access to PUBLIC PROPERTY ON ROADS THAT WERE CREATED WITH PUBLIC DOLLARS. The Klump's didn't pay for that road that goes to the top of the Dos Cabezas. The road just happened to go through a little piece of private Klump property down at the bottom. Because of that it gives them the right to cut off access to a public road that goes to public property. I DON'T THINK SO. Probably 95% of the land up there is public land. Trust me, I have looked at a map. This is one of only many, many instances that are exactly the same here in AZ. The G & F has numbers on the amount of public property acres that are "land locked" due to private property cutting the public property off. I have walked many roads behind locked gates that lead to forest service roads. Once you get on forest service land, those roads are marked with forest service signs indicating what the road numbers are. Then guess what, the rancher has the nerve to lock the gate and say "prove the road was here before it was my private property." UH, HELLO!!! WHO DO YOU THINK MARKED THE ROAD WITH THE SIGNS? THE SAME PEOPLE THAT PUSHED THE ROAD THROUGH!!! And the burden of proof falls on the government, like we need more things for our government to be spending our tax dollars on. I guarantee you, all these access problems wouldn't be an issue IF THE RANCHER HAD TO PROVE IT WASN'T A PUBLIC ROAD BEFORE HE LOCKED THE GATE. I doubt they would be spending the time and money to do that and deny the access. But instead, if the government wants to obtain PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC PROPERTY ON A PUBLIC ROAD, they have to go research and find old maps that show the road accessing the public property prior to the other land being private. That takes a lot of time and a lot of money. A good comparison would be like finding a needle in a haystack. Have the "FEDS" push a new road around the private property you say. WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO DO THAT WHEN THERE IS A PERFECTLY GOOD ROAD RIGHT THERE THAT THE TAX PAYERS PAID FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. Besides that, what you are proposing is easier said then done. The neighboring land could be 1) BLM 2) State Trust 3) Forest Service, etc, etc. That is more red tape than anyone has the resources to cut through. The other thing that gets me is ranchers who think that leased land is "THEIR LAND." UH, HELLO!!! Most ranchers don't hesitate to throw up no trespassing signs on BLM or state land at all. I grew up in rural southern AZ. I grew up with ranchers kids and I know they were raised with the mentality that it is ALL THEIR LAND. GUESS WHAT? WRONG!!! Sure they made improvements but for their own benefit. No one put a gun to their head. It was their decision to spend money improving PUBLIC PROPERTY. THEY DO NOT AND SHOULD NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESTRICT PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC PROPERTY. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

holy crap - at least you know where is gene pool is so when you do get a tag you will have a good starting point. if he makes it through the year you should be putting in for that unit next year - rifle first choice and archery second. simply amazing. thanks for sharing. CB

so where are the pics of the big mule deer you scouted? come on, no holding out on us. CB

Nikon should always also be put in the Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski class. CB

I had alwaysed used straight but now that I have an angled, I would never go back. CB

that is a sweeeeeet buck. gotta love that bladed eye guard and those kickers that are starting to poke out. thanks for sharing! CB

yep - sure is. the one klump had a dispute with the government about some cattle he had running on some property. he got taken to court and the judge ordered him to remove his cattle, he refused was found in contempt and spent about a year in jail. the thing that gets me about the dos cabezas is that most of that land is public land. there is just a little parcel up on the top of the mountain where their corals are and a little parcel down where the locked gate is that the klumps own. they use to open the gate during deer season so everyone could drive up there to hunt. one of the klumps would just keep track of everyones license plate and check for garbage when you came out. they also have quite a few mineral claims, so they went to court and claimed that if someone was injured in one of the mine shafts, they would be liable. the judge agreed, so now they lock it up and say they are required to by court order. just like all the private land in the world, if your a good ole boy, the klumps will give you a key. i have hiked to the top of the mountain over the course of many years and talked to people up there in vehicles, other ranchers, the cochise county sheriff, people that have paid an access fee (not to klump but to his rancher buddy), etc. etc. etc. if it is going to be open to some people it should be open to everyone!!! thats what I got to say. a few years ago, someone gave the key out and the gate did not get locked, so everyone drove up the road. then someone discovered that the gate was unlocked and they locked it. the problem was that there were a bunch of people up on the mountain that didnt have the key and couldnt get our. to plowed the gate over to get out. that is one serious gate, concrete on one side and bedrock on the other. I have also talked to guys who have ridden their mountain bikes up there. other guys hike in before the season and take food and water up there. then when the season starts, they hike up and camp up on top. I have also heard of guys that have hired a helicopter pilot out of Willcox to fly them up on top and drop them off for 3 - 4 days and then come back up there later on to pick them up. supposedly the people that own and maintain the towers up on dos cabeza were fed up with the klumps and were going to push a road up the mountain that bypassed the klump land. dont know where that is or if they are still talking about it. would be nice. the other bigger problem with the dos cabezas is with the deer herd in general. I think a combination of predation and drought have really hurt the deer numbers up there. I first hunted there in 1998. from 98 to 2000 we saw a steady decline in deer numbers in general, bucks in general and of course quality bucks. several of the year round water sources dried up and were not available for the deer. In 2001, I told my buddy if he wanted to put 30A on our application he was going to have to leave me off because I did not want my name on an app that had that number on it. lucky for us we were drawn for a december hunt that year. I am confident that if he had put 30A as our 5th choice we would have gotten drawn for that instead. I have not hunted there since 2000 but I have helped other people on their hunts and it is still pretty slim pickens. Good luck. CB

dont get to discouraged just yet. there will be some bucks that will come out of the woodwork once the rut kicks in and you will be asking yourself where did he come from and how come I havent seen him before. if you know you are going to have a hard time finding a monster, I would try to decide ahead of time what kind of buck is asthetically pleasing to you and then look for one that fits that bill. some people like traditional heart shapes, others like bucks with horns that go out flatter, still other people prefer bucks that have horns that hook down and back instead of in. Then if you can find a big one that fits your bill you will be even more satisfied. Good luck. CB

in his most recent post, Doug lists a Nikon 20X-45X by 60 mm TF3 Tactical ED. Great scope. CB

3 basic areas (in no particular order) are 1) mountains in the far SE corner of the state (east of Douglas) 2) the pedregosa mountains in the southern end of the Chiracuas (south of the rucker lake road) and 3) the Dos Cabezas. CB

So what was the cost and how many people can go at one time in order to split it up more?

might want to check into those new BDC (bullet drop compensator) scopes Nikon came out with this year.

Here is a shed I found last year on a scouting trip. It scores right at 40 inches. We saw a buck that had a right antler that was very similar to this one only he was about 15% bigger. I guess it is possible this shed was from that buck from the year before but probably not. The buck we saw was over a mile away from where I found this shed and one of those MONSTER NM canyons was between them. Never hunted that buck. He was the only one we saw on our scouting trip that weekend so when the season came we headed for a different area. Worked out good for me! Maybe that buck is still roaming the country. Anyway, good luck on your scouting trips. Get some pics, video and get them posted. CB