dobbs07

I like the looks of the max 1 open country pattern, and the predator patterns are ones that seem to work pretty well.

Nice horns! I hate them snakes, I ran into one in the thick oak brush last weekend. long story short there is one less rattler in the world now.

Nice set of horns man! I like all the Trail cam pics of that bull really shows the size of them horns. Crazy that they went undiscovered for as long as they did.

I just made my call and the lady explained how the whole proccess was going to happen. She also said that if it went thru it would be put in place next fall. TJ TJ do you mind giving us a quick explanation of what she told you on how the process is supposedly gonna work?

Have you ever tried to salt/bait in az? most likely based on the above comment you have not. You have absolutely no idea the work an effort it takes to first of all decide where to put your attractant, then to pack your attractant into an areas or areas, then to hope and pray that the animals actually start hitting your site. And also pray that the cattle dont find it too!! Then to monitor the site by either sitting it or placing out trail cams. Also you must replenish you site whenever the attractant runs low. And finally you must get lucky enough to have a legal animal come within bow range during the time which you are in your stand. And im sure most of the guys on here would agree that its not like animals you can harvest are coming by all day long, more than likely you will have a few critters come by throughout the day and if you are realy really lucky, and legal animal will come in. if you are really really super lucky a mature animal might come in. Have you ever tried sitting in a stand for hours and hours on end? its not as easy as it would seem. To be honest it sounds like you have never tried any of this and you are making assumptions about it based on what you've read about texas or complete heresay. And if you are really so jealous of bowhunters being able to hunt before the rest of "us" (whatever that means, as most of "us" are both rifle and bow hunters) then why dont you go buy yourself a bow and learn how to shoot it? I assure you that is much more work and effort than you might imagine as well. Thanks. That is all.

I have posted on Archerytalk dot com and Monstermuleys dot com, if anyone else has accounts please reply to keep them near the top so they can be seen by all. Thank you!

Email sent. An guys, we need to get the word out on this!! Call anyone you can think of, and post on any of the other forums you think people may see this. I have already posted it on archery talk dot com.

I've gotta be honest. I used to be a proud hunter in the state of Arizona. Proud of the quality of hunting in this state, proud of the trophy class animals we produced year after year, and most of all proud of the job the Arizona Game and Fish Department was doing to ensure that this would be the case for years to come. These days I find myself speaking out against the department more and more, and becoming less and less proud of hunting in my state, and the department that manages it.

I have a couple of quick points: >First off i would like to know why these meetings to obtain public input always seem to be held during the day, and during the work week, when a vast majority of the hunting population is unable to attend do to their jobs? >Secondly why wasn't the public made more aware about this potential rule change, and upcoming meeting to discuss it? I've received emails and notification for much less concerning issues. >Also why is it that the department feels the need to go after the archers? Do you not see that the rifle is a far more successful weapon, and that if you reduced the number of rifle permits, and more opportunity for archery, then wouldn't you be able to have more people in the field as the harvest would be much lower? And thats the name of the game for the commission these days isnt it? Increasing hunter opportunity? >Has the department considered the fact that as a general rule of thumb most hunters sitting over salt/bait, have the opportunity to pass numerous immature animals that might otherwise be harvested, and take a more mature animal that may be nearing the end of it's life expectatncy, potentially leading to a heathier overall population of animals? > Mr. Day, can you or someone else please explain to me why it is necessary to put a cap or certain percentage of harvest on the archers? When you cannot possibly know exactly how many animals are harvested in the rifle hunts? Im sure you have estimates, but without mandatory reporting for everyone, how in the world can you get an accurate picture of what the actual harvest is? How bout this, when you get more, and better number that truly reflect what is going on with the deer harvest in this state, by both archers and rifle hunters. Also please obtain more statistics on how many deer were actually harvested with the assistance of salt/bait. Also be sure to obtain information on how many people are harvesting game while sitting over a water source. Then you can come back to us with your numbers and we will calmly discuss options. Until then please do not try to create b.s. rules that everyone knows will be nearly impossible to enforce, and cram them down the throats of the arizona hunting community. I've gotta be honest with you sir. I used to be a proud hunter in the state of Arizona. Proud of the quality of hunting in this state, proud of the trophy class animals we produced year after year, and most of all proud of the job the Arizona Game and Fish Department was doing to ensure that this would be the case for years to come. These days I find myself speaking out against the department more and more, and becoming less and less proud of hunting in my state, and the department that manages it.

does anybody have this guys email address? I will send emails, and let others know as well.

so do we get a say on this? will there be meetings or anything? We need to fight back on this guys... they already took some hunts in some units away from us in december, and put some Aug/Sept hunts to a draw. Now they're trying to limit the success elsewhere by removing salt/feed as an option, next thing ya know they're gonna put a limit on how many fps our bows can shoot, who knows maybe someday we're gonna have to hunt with sharpened spears. I dont get it, the dept is trying to promote quantity of hunts over quality, so why are they taking away from the group of hunters where they can afford the most growth? (meaning lowest success rates) Why not take away from the rifle hunters who traditionally enjoy much higher success rates if they really feel the need to incess opportunity. Since I for one dont even agree with that to begin with. Seems to me like the commission is maybe just anti-archery? Anyone else getting this feeling? We got speak up and stick together on this one guys. if start giving them an inch, you know they'll take as much as they can.

If it's all about trying to give everyone the chance to go deer hunting every year, why dont we just make everyone hunt with a spear. That way the success rate will be very low, and the herds will be able to support the increased number, and everyone gets to go!!! Thats the kind of logic that Im seeing here.

I'm just trying to find out if there is any new information on this, or where exactly we are at with this issue.... anyone have any updates?

Ok, and as i said Im not a biologist, that was just my general understanding of a deer's growth cycle. Maybe someone can clarify for me what age bucks live to? 8 years? more? Less? I guess as i said before my main concern is that we are harvesting a majority of deer that havent reached the peak of maturity yet, which I would imagine would be closer to 4-5 years.

***Warning, lengthy read*** Last year (2007) I checked 18 WT bucks out of 36C and 11 of the 18 (61%) were 3.5 years old or older. The idea that we are ruining our buck age structure in the quest to allow more people to hunt is just not true when you look at the data. In the last 5 years (2003-07) at my check station, I have aged 490 WT bucks out of GMUs 36ABC and in each of those years 40-56% of the bucks were 3.5 years old or older. I'm pretty proud of that. JIM Ok let me make this clear up front, I am NOT a wildlife biologist by any means. I do however have some questions/thoughts/opinions on this issue. It's my general understanding that a one year old buck is a spike, two year old a two point, 3 year old a 2 maybe small 3 point. And a 4 plus year old deer a mature 3 point. So according to the above numbers half, maybe more of the 490 deer that were harvested in the previously mentioned units are spikes, two points, or small 3 points? Now this is where I need some additional clarification. The way I understand it, it is the responsibility of sportsmen and ultimately the Game and Fish department to manage our wildlife to have healthy herds. What I understand my job as a sportsman to be is to remove older/mature animals, and unhealthy animals from a heard as to have a healthy breeding population of animals. However what I see from the above information is that we are failing at that responsibility. We are from what I can see, harvesting close a majority of deer that may not even have reached the peak of maturity. Now I can understand that there are people that just hunt for the experience or hunt for the meat, and thats fine you are entitled to your interpretation of wildlife management. But to me, it feels like maybe we are not doing as good of a job as we could at managing effectively. I guess what Im getting at is since when did it become about getting as many people as possible into the "woods" hunting. I thought our goal was to manage and conserve wildlife? It seems to me that if we are not harvesting a majority of mature animals then maybe we need to reduce the number of tags til we reach that point? Why do we need to have everyone that wants to have a tag get one? Just like the saying goes "you can't always get what you want." I would gladly sit a few years out in order to ensure that we are doing right by or management principles. And yes there are always going to be people that whine and complain about not getting the "opportunity" to go hunting often enough. Who wouldn't? I want to go hunt bugling bulls every year, but the fact of the matter is, there just aren't enough animals, and concequently there aren't enough tags to go around for everyone. But you know what? I'm proud that most out of state, and in-state hunters regard our state to be one of the finest elk hunting states in the country. And you know what else? I wouldn't trade the opportunity to go elk hunting every year for that fact EVER. I would hate to see our state get to the point where it is a common thing to go elk hunting every year, and a rarity for trophy bulls to be harvested. And yet, I already see this happening with Over the Counter elk permits, and November archery bull tags, I see those as poor excuses to get more revenue and more people in the field. So where does it stop? Premium rut permits slowly get stripped away and more tags get added to lower success winter hunts, until there comes a point where there are only a handful of rut tags available, and it becomes increasingly difficult to harvest mature animals with the exception of one or two trophy units? This is quickly becoming the reality for deer hunts. premium permits that allows hunters to harvest mature animals have been taken away, and added to hunts where people are happy to simply harvest a buck, any buck, and often times end up settling for an animal that is immature. So are we just going to have one or two "trophy units" for coues deer now as well, or worse are we ok with harvesting a majority of immature animals from the herd? I say we take a look at our wildlife management philosophies and follow those as best as possible, and stop worrying that there are not enough permits available for everyone. We need to ensure that we have "quality" healthy herds, and stop worrying that we as hunters are not getting enough "opportunity." I dont think it's fair to criticize something without offering a solution, so here's mine: I think we need to take a look at other avenue of increasing our herds and improving the health of the animals. This can be anything from doing more to reducing the number of predators, to improving available water sources for animals. Make available more volunteer opportunities so we can get out there and do the things it take to help our wildlife, and also do more to publicize these events, because we cant go if we dont know about it. And finally, to make sure everyone gets an equal opportunity at these scarce permits, maybe we need to take a look at the way the draw works to ensure these tags are being allocated fairly. Im just throwing out ideas guys, I just feel like there are other options other than what AZGFD has currently put on the table. Sorry for the large wall of text, but this is something I'm very passionate about, and haven't really gotten much opportunity to express it. Thanks, if you took the time to read this. -Matt

Just got caught up on this thread, (took like three hours) I dont see any new information since April, is there another thread with with more recent info? Is there any new info? Sorry to be such a latecomer, but this is an important issue, and i want to make sure I have all the info. Thanks, -Matt

hey guys, I usually hunt whitetails with the spot and stalk method, and have recently tried my hand at treestand hunting these guys, and wanted to get some pointers. 1. When you have deer hitting you stand salt/stand, do you try not to get close to it because of your scent? 2. Do you generally hang you stands ahead of time to familiarize the deer with it, and again eliminate scent? 3. i've heard some guys wear rubber boots and such, do you guys do this? Or do you have other methods? Any tips suggestions would be amazing. Thanks for the help in advance.

Yeah my stands up like 20 ish feet, and its downhill behind it so probly closer to 25 on the downhill side.... I just wonder if i need to wear rubber boots or Ive heard some guys dont put their clothes on til they get to their stand site... just curious how concerned with scent i need to be.... Bowsniper indicated he hadnt reallly had any issues with it, and I was wondering if anyone else had a similiar take on it.... or a different experience...

anyone else have any additional thoughts/opinions on this?

oh i know about the blind thing, i sat a tank this weekend in the sun and sweated out about 2 gallons of water a day.... gawd its hot in those things...

thanks for the info Mark. much appreciated!

Hey guys here are some horns I picked up last year from a buck we hunted. I am wondering if anyone here knows of a buck similar to this that was harvested last year, as we have been unable to locate this deers so far this year, and I also have not been able to find his sheds from last year. His horns have quite a bit of character, so Im hoping that if someone did get him theyd recognize him. Please let me know if you have any info. thanks! oh, and giving him an average spread he scored roughly 128"

So I'm trying to get a better understanding of the way our bonus points work here in AZ. I was always under the impression that the way the draw occurs is that you name is entered into the computer however many times corresponding with the number of bonus points you have, therefore each unsuccessful year, your odds go up. until finally you are in the max pool, where you odds increase astronomically. Recently however when discussing this with my friend, he presented his understanding of the system: He heard that everyone outside of the max pool has an equal opportunity at the number of tags that are available, and that it makes no difference how many bonus points you have until you hit the maximum amount. So if someone could fill in for me your understanding of how the system works, thatd be great!

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