dobbs07

***Sold*** Selling a brand new, nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 F1 scope with a MOA-XT reticle. Purchased the scope from Eurooptic a couple months back for a new build and have since switched to MRAD system. Scope has never been mounted, only opened the box to look through scope to evaluate it once I received it. Looking to get $1900 OBO.

Will take $1700 for the scope firm. No trades please.

***Sold*** Hi all, I purchased an Sig Cross during a Black Friday sale last November but have decided to go a different route and building off a tikka instead. Looking to sell this sig cross that is still new in the box. It has not been fired or even had a scope mounted. It’s the First Lite cipher camo pattern chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor with an 18” Barrel and folding stock. These typically sell for $1800. Will include 2 boxes of 140 gr 6.5 Creedmoor ammo as well worth $50. Not looking for trades as I will be putting proceeds towards the tikka build. I can be reached at 602-743- two two, five five. Text is preferred. Thank you!

*Sold*

Price drop to $1800

Anybody get an azgfd credit card charge and now need a new scope? 😉

*Price drop * will take $1450 obo for the cross.

Bumping this back up, have had a few folks reach out but no takers yet.

***sold*** Selling my Swarovski 12x50 ELs. The glass is in excellent condition. Minor wear on outside rubber armor coating from being in chest pack. Comes with Outdoorsman’s tripod stud already installed (was $100). I have all of the original boxing, lens covers, straps, case, paperwork. Located in north Phoenix. Can meet locally within reasonable driving distance. Can be reached via txt: 602.743.22fivefive Originally paid $3100, asking $1900

@Born2hunt yes still available.

@12Closeit, I’ll have to pass, need the funds for a rifle build. Appreciate the offer tho!

Selling an ultra light backpack tent. Made by Mountain Laurel Designs: https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/supermid/ It is the OD green color Silnylon. It was used one time. It is fully seam sealed, no rips, tears or holes. Does not come with trekking poles shown in picture. Asking $300 Thanks!

Duplicate post

Many of you my have read my story in the campfire section, but if not here's the short version. My home was broken into about a month before my elk hunt and the thieves stole my bow, my back up bow, my swaro 15's, my vortex razor hd spotter, my rino gps, my rangefinder, my arrows, and my pack along with some other miscellaneous items. I was pretty bummed out and feeling like I had a huge mountain to climb in order to try to be successful on my hunt. Fortunately I have some good family and friends who were able to loan me some items, and my credit card unfortunately got a bit of a work out for others, but at the end of the day I was able to get almost back to where I felt confident going into my hunt. Wasn't quite as confident with my replacement bow set up as the previous one, but that's kind of par for the course with a bow. Anyway I'm writing this as a follow up for those of you who wrote words of encouragement as well as offers to let me borrow anything and everything I might need for me hunt from gps's to bows to swaros to spotters, you guys know who you are and are truly amazing. I even had an insurance adjuster and police officer reach out to me through here who were unbelievably helpful. Really appreciate all the help guys. Anyways I'm writing to let you all know that in spite of this adversity I was still able to have tremendous success on my hunt and take a great bull. The story of my 2016 archery bull follows: When I found out I had drawn an archery bull tag, I determined early on that I would try for a 350"+ bull or bust. I was fortunate to have already taken a 330" caliber bull 6 years ago and so I really wanted to get a bull in the next size tier up or better. I knew that I would have my work cut out for me and the odds were better that I would go home with my tag than be successful. As I began scouting and my hunt approached I really began questioning my goal as I still had not located a bull that I wanted to hunt. The first 3 days of my hunt were fairly uneventful. I along with two friends Brandon and Chris spent most of our time behind our binos trying to find a big bull for me to hunt. During this time between all of us we looked at approximately 40-50 different bulls and none were what I was after. Unfortunately, these two guys had to head home after the weekend and I was a little bummed that we hadnt been able to locate a bull that I wanted to hunt. My wife was able to take a couple days off work and spend some time looking with me and sitting a water with me. We had two rag horns come in and swim in the tank and spar right in front of us and seeing how excited and happy my wife was really helped to put things in perspective for me and to just enjoy the experience. My wife had to head back to town and I got a surprise when my step dad told me that our buddy Carl called and said he was on his way up to help us. Carl arrived later that evening and asked me where I wanted him to look in the morning. I had a spot in mind that I thought might be a decent place to look and hadnt been able to make it there yet so he agreed to check it out. That next morning I was in a nearby area and had located two bulls bugling before light. I got all my gear together and started heading towards the nearest bugle just as the eastern sky was starting to lighten. I got about 1/4 mile from my truck when I felt my phone vibrate in my pocket. I took it out and saw that it was a text from Carl: "Got a herd due west of me. Can't tell about bulls yet." I put the phone back in my pocket and took another 20-30 steps when my phone buzzed again. "Big guy in there, real wide." Ok, well that sounds encouraging I thought as I put the phone back in my pocket. I started to take another step and my phone buzzed again. I took it out and read the words "I found your bull." Now I was getting excited. I called Carl on the phone and listened as he described the bull to me. He thought it was going to be right at the 350" mark but that I should definitely take a look at him. I had yet to see a bull that I thought was better than 320" so I agreed that I should probably check him out. While I was heading over I received this picture from Carl: I was getting even more excited, this definitely was the best bull I had seen so far on my hunt. When I got the area I parked my truck and began working in on the elk. I got to within about 150 yards of the herd when I heard the bull start raking a tree, I started making a bee line for the bull and all of a sudden saw some cows step into the opening. I froze as they fed across. After they cleared I again quickly headed toward the sound of the raking bull. I got to about 100 yards when he stopped raking, turned and followed after the cows. I tried angling to cut him off but the best I could manage was about 80-90 yards. Too far. It was about 8 o'clock by this time and the elk decided they were ready to bed down. The lined out and headed over the ridge into a thick drainage. I backed out and joined Carl on the hill above the elk. He showed me where they were bedded and I decided to try to sneak in on them. I dropped down off the ridge and crossed into the thick drainage. When I got to where I thought I was within 150 yards or so of the elk I tried a couple cow call to see if I could get an answer. Nothing. I moved another 50 yards closer and tried bugling. This time the bull answered right away, but it sounded like I was still 150 yards or so away. So I closed the gap another 75 yards or so. This time when I bugled he screamed right on top of my bugle from about 60 yards away. I started raking a tree with a stick, and I heard him start raking a tree in response. I started toward the sound of the raking when I spotted the tree moving, I was about 50 yards away but the bull was behind some thick trees. I had a lane to the bull if he would step forward a few feet so I nocked an arrow and got ready. At this point since he didnt hear any more from the challenger bull he must have felt he had intimidated me, so he stopped raking, turned and walked back to where he had been and laid down. So I stalked in closer. I ended up getting to 37 yards of him and his 13 cows. Unfortunately, they were lying in a thick tangled mess of junipers/cedars and I had no clear shot to the bull and could move no closer without being in sight of several cows. Right about this time I felt the whispers of the wind on the back of my neck, the bull lunged out of bed and ran off taking the cows with him. I was pretty bummed. I felt like I had just blown a great opportunity at a great bull and i knew those don't come around too frequently during the course of a hunt. We headed back to camp and started trying to strategize for the evening hunt. As many of you know it was very dry and warm on this hunt, so i felt like I needed to identify this bulls water source. I found two tanks on the map that looked like they were likely candidates. One I had already been to and it had minimal elk sign on it, and with a bull and 13 cows I felt like there should be a whole lot of sign. I headed to the other tank. When I got there, first off I was relieved and surprised to not find any other blinds or cameras. Secondly I noticed multiple fresh wallows and lots of tracks. This appeared to be the tank they were using, or at least a good number of elk were using. I got my blind all set up and brushed in and settled in for an evening wait. Carl was up on a different hill where he could see the tank I was sitting as well as much of the country around me. Nothing was spotted that night, and nothing came in to the tank I was sitting. So pretty much a bust. Crazy as it seems the next morning I decided not to hunt that bull, we were still thinking he was right at 350" and i was really hoping to find a "no doubter" shooter bull. Carl went back to the same hill to see if he could relocate the herd and i went to another area and chased around some other bulls. Got a good look at one herd bull and he was great on the bottoms but weak on top, which was a common theme for the majority of the bulls I saw on my hunt. Didnt get a look at the other bull which was really frustrating. I really hate when that happens, your mind always assumes that it was a giant bull when odds are it wasn't. Anyway Carl wasn't able to locate that bull again or his herd, but he said he heard a couple bugles from the direction they had gone the previous day. About this time I got a call from home and realized I was needed there. My 2.5 year old daughter needed someone to watch her for the day and was missing her dad. As much as it sucked to go home and be in the valley while I had a premium archery bull tag burning a hole in my pocket it was a great mental break and really helped to refocus me for the second half. I also was able to do some laundry and resupply. I headed back up north on the evening of day 8, with plans to stay the remainder of the hunt. The morning of day 9 I again headed to a different area still looking for a no doubter bull. I got into some pretty good bugling action and saw 4 or 5 satellite bulls and one herd bull that was a solid 340 class bull. Right about this time the thought of that other bull started nagging me. between my friends and I we had probably looked at 60-70 + bulls by this point, and he was clearly the best bull we'd seen, I could keep looking for a bigger one that may or may not exist, or hunt that bull. I decided I need to focus on him for the rest of the hunt. So i headed back to the tank where I thought he was watering. It's funny how your mind can really mess with you. Once I decided I wanted to hunt this bull, I started getting really paranoid that someone else might be hunting him or had already killed him. I decided I better go to the tank early to make sure I beat anyone there... so i went there.... at 11:00 am. Needless to say it was a long afternoon of napping til around 4:00 when I finally shook myself out of my daze and got ready for the evening hunt. It was about this time I noticed there were a lot of crows around. Oh great, see someone did shoot him i thought. I even texted a buddy that I was worried he was dead because there were 5 or so crows flying around. Like I said the mind is a funny thing. Anyway the evening was mostly uneventful til around 6:30 when 4 coyotes showed up at the water. They got a drink then started playing tag and chasing each other all around the tank, it was pretty interesting to watch. I heard a bugle quite a ways off in the distance and got excited thinking maybe he was coming my way. 5 minutes later the same bugle, same distance, more time passed I heard the bugle again, this time it sounded if anything maybe further away. Now i was feeling disappointed. Then I heard what sounded like a vehicle driving up the road toward the tank I was sitting. "Awesome these guys are going to drive up right at prime time, perfect." I was so frustrated I packed up all my gear inside my blind. put the arrow bck in the quiver, put my rangefinder away and was just waiting out the last 10 minutes or so figuring the truck would be there at any minute. After a few minutes I stopped hearing the vehicle, not sure if they turned around or what happened, but right about this time i heard elk walking from off to my right. I frantically rushed to get all my gear back out as quickly and quietly as possible. Right as I got my arrow nocked on my string again I looked out my blind window to see a spike come walking in and start drinking. " Awesome, i got all my gear back out for you?"I thought for a split second before another elk walked into sight this one a much bigger bull. I only looked at his horns for a split second to determine this was a shooter bull. I quickly ranged him at 42 yards as he reached the tanks' edge and started sucking down water. I then clipped my release on the d-loop, leaned into the corner of the blind and drew my bow, as I leaned back out to where I could see out the window I realized I could see the elk clearly but my pins were a bit tougher to see it was getting pretty dark inside my blind. I focused on making out the outlines of each individual pin, counted to my 40 yard pin and positioned it right on his front shoulder. I slowly squeezed the trigger and sent the arrow on it's way. I heard solid contact and saw the bull lunge forward into the water. He quickly ran across the water that was only probably a foot deep or so and 15 yards across. He headed up the other side and angled away from me as I watched in my binoculars looking for sign of blood on him. I was not seeing any blood as he got to about 40 yards from where I hit him, and right as i started to get slightly concerned I saw him pause then do a couple side steps, then his hind end dropped followed shortly thereafter by his front. He was down!!! I couldn't believe it. It happened so fast. I didn't even have time to get excited. When he went down the wave of adrenaline hit me like a truck and I started shaking like it was 32 degrees outside. It was all I could do to contain some celebratory whisper yells inside my blind. As i sat there watching him in my binos making sure to give him adequate time to expire, I reflected on how surreal the evening had been. One minute I'm feeling frustrated because it's day 9 of my hunt, I'm thinking the bull I'm hunting could be dead, and I've got a truck driving in on me, I'm packing up my stuff and leaving, the next minute I've just arrowed a great bull, and the hunt is over. After giving him sufficient time, all the while watching him like a hawk through my binos. I finally got out of my blind and approached him. When I got over to him, I checked him and confirmed he had expired, and then there was no muffling my celebratory yell. I realized then that it was in fact the same bull Carl had found several days prior, and that he just might be a bit bigger than we thought.... My parents arrived shortly thereafter and helped me get some good pictures and then we began the lengthy process of getting him field dressed and the meat all taken care of. The next day after dropping off my meat at a processor, we took the horns to a friend who is an official measurer for B&C and P&Y, and had my bull unofficially scored by him. When he handed me the score sheet I quickly read down and found the score at the bottom and read 354 6/8. Sweet! I said as I read the score out loud to everyone gathered around. Everyone was congratulating me when he then said "well you know that's the net score right?" I re-read the paper and about dropped it, 366 2/8, when you add in his 2 2/8 extra point he grosses 368 4/8. I couldnt believe it. Never would I have guessed he'd be closer to 370 than 350, and boy I felt silly for not hunting this bull for every second after Carl found him. Needless to say I will be getting this bull mounted and in fact just dropped off the cape at the taxidermist today. As with most big achievements, I had a lot of help to make this hunt a success. First off thanks to Carl for finding this bull, big thanks to my mom and step dad, thanks to my buddy Brandon and Chris and of course thanks to my wife for her taking care of the home front while I was away on this hunt. I could not have been successful without the support and contributions of each and every one of them. This is a hunt I won't soon forget. I had a ton of adversity prior to the hunt, but good family, good friends and even good people on CWT.com all helped me overcome it to make the hunt a huge success. Thanks everybody! I hope you enjoyed my story.

Congrats man! It was nice meeting and talking with you and Bubba up there. Way to get it done!

Hey guys I'm back from my hunt and have an update to this story: http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/68698-burglar-bull/

Hey everyone, posting this here in hopes of spreading the word. Our home was broken into yesterday while I was at work. Unfortunately the thieves made out with almost all of my hunting gear. I had just got back from scouting for my upcoming archery elk hunt sunday night late, so unfortunately all my equipment was still in my backpack and laying out. Wanted to share the full list of what was taken in hopes that someone runs across some of this stuff, it's pretty specific and high end stuff so I imagine it will be a little tougher to unload than your average pistol or stereo system etc. Without further ado here is the full gutwrenching list of things they got: 15x56 Swarovski binoculars (these were probably 8-10 years old and are the lighter green color, had a Jim White unidapter for mounting to a tripod, next they got my Vortex Razor HD 16-48X65 Spotting scope , they also got my garmin Rino 650 gps radio combo, they also took my range finder a leica crf 1200, all of this was inside an eberlestock X2 camo backpack. in addition, and probably most sickening they took my 3 month old Mathews Halon 6 Stone gray colored that I cashed in a pile of sheds I had collected over the past several years to buy. More specifics on the bow as I think it should be most identifiable. It has a custom montana black gold sight with the following options: 5 pins with top two green, middle one red, and bottom two green. The top two are .19 size and the bottom 3 are .10, the sight housing is white(they come stock with nitrous green) and it has a 4" dovetail mounted to the bow. In addition the bow has a black 10" B-stinger sport hunter extreme stabilizer that I removed the label off of. It also has a black trophy taker smackdown pro full capture rest on it. In addition I put a black and gray braided wrist sling on it, as well as black limbsaver vibration dampers between the split limbs, top and bottom. They also took approximately 15 arrows that were with the bow. These are Easton deep six carbon injexion 330's with two white blazer vanes and one black on each arrow. If thats not bad enough they also got my old bow that I was keeping for a backup on my elk hunt and was planning on selling afterwards. It was a 2011 Darton Pro 3800, it's a camo model, I took the grips off and have it taped with black tennis racket tape, it also had a trophy taker smackdown rest on it although it was black and red. In addition it has a Spot Hogg 7 pin sight on it. The string is the original black and green and it has a black doinker multi-rod stabilizer on it. As you can see from the list it's pretty extensive and is basically everything I had. I'm feeling pretty devastated to be quite honest. It's taken me a number of years to acquire everything and many thousands of dollars, and only a few minutes for someone to break in and take it all. To top it off I have an early archery bull tag in a premium unit that opens in about 3 weeks that I have no idea how I am going to be successful on at this point. Any tips, or leads would be greatly appreciated. Like I said a lot of this stuff is pretty specific and high profile, i would think it would stand out at your average pawn shop. Hoping someone in the community runs across some or all of this stuff. Planning on giving all the details to all the valley archery shops as well as talking to as many pawn shops as possible, and then just trying to watch on ebay, craigslist, and the online classifieds on various forums. I can't imagine this person is a fellow hunter so thinking they will want to unload this stuff at some point. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am working to try to get serial numbers for some of these items, and will update if I am able to get them. I highly recommend you guys write down the serial numbers on all your expensive gear, if you have not done so already. I can't begin to tell you how badly I wish I had done so at this point. Thanks everyone. -Matt Dobler mdobler07@gmail.com

X1000 Yeah we have one that is professionally monitored, but unfortunately in both instances it wasn't set. We typically set it almost every time but in my case I didn't since I was running to the store quickly and my wife simply forgot yesterday. That's another oddity that the thieves were lucky enough that when they hit us both times it wasn't armed. We also have signs in our yard and stickers on Windows. In both instances both responding officers said it wouldn't have made a difference, they said most likely the thieves were in and out in under 2 minutes. They said realistically alarms just give people a false sense of security, and they respond to just as many calls where the alarm went off and the thief still got away with items. That's why I'm looking into other options like a video surveillance system, and safe.

The responses and offers from you guys are amazing I really appreciate all the offers to borrow gear. I know how important it is to us being successful, so the fact that you guys are willing to loan it out to a fellow member of CWT.com is extremely generous. At this point I think between family and friends I will be good for this hunt and as far as long term goes I have started the claims process with my home owners insurance company, so we will see how that shakes out. I definitely agree that it seems like it's a someone in the neighborhood that did it. This is actually the second time in 6 months our house has been broken into. Both times they broke in during a narrow window of time when we were not home, but weren't gone for long. Last time they broke in while I ran to home depot for 30 minutes. This time my wife took my daughter to swimming lessons for about 2 hours, so it definitely seems like someone is watching the house. Last time I'm fairly sure I interrupted the thief because they only got to a couple dresser drawers and my night stand(where they unfortunately got my 9mm m&p shield), and they had filled my pillow case with some of the wife's jewelry and other small items. They left that laying half way out the bedroom door, so I think they dropped it when they heard my truck pull up and went back out the side window. This time they broke in through the back patio door by shattering the glass. (I put bars on the windows after the last break in.) They took my pillow case off again, but can't find what they put in it(this makes me think it was the same person who hit us last time), they hit the night stands again but nothing really of value in there anymore, they then went up to our front room where they found my gear still in my pack and the bows in cases. They took the bows out of the cases, and took the pack and grabbed all the arrows that were loose since I had fletched them just last week. We haven't really found anything non hunting related that they took, they left our stereo,tv, laptop, and video game console, which seems odd. But they got approximately $6000 retail worth of gear, so they were probably good with their haul. Definitely feels like it's possibly a neighbor, also seems like it could be a young adult, or at least someone in good shape as the window they climbed in last time is a smaller window they'd have to pull themselves through, and this time they hopped our cinder block wall in and out. Will definitely take any recommendations or referrals for home video surveillance system and any other tips about securing my gear. I like the tip about loading ur vehicle at night in the dark, I'll try to incorporate that. Also looking at getting a safe for the optics, and guns although not sure if bows fit in them? Anyway thanks again everyone for the generous offers and kind words. Means a lot. Been a rough week. Discovered one of my trail cameras was stolen on Sunday, house broken into on Monday, and my bank just called me today saying someone tried using my credit card number online to spend $1600 at Apple's online store. My faith and trust in human decency is/was pretty shot, and you guys have helped to offset that a bit. So thanks again.

I am located in North phoenix, roughly near Cave creek and the 101. I appreciate the offer, that's really kind of you to offer to loan something to a complete stranger, and restores a little bit of my faith in humanity for me. I am working on getting a bow sorted out so I should be somewhat ok there, just a matter of trying to get comfortable with it in 3 weeks seems daunting. I am fortunate to have some good family members and friends that have graciously offered to let me borrow some things for my hunt, so I didn't post this to try to get help with that, I just want to try to spread the word to hopefully catch whoever did this and if possible recover any of my equipment. Again tho, I greatly appreciate the offer, means a lot man.

Dobbs, before you say anything else to look like an idiot you can see that small pine branch is covering my license plate from the picture being taken. You can even see on the left side of the quad and towards the front where the dirt is raised up which is the edge of the road I was parked on. Wanna know how you find 9 antlers in 3 hours? You get out there and hit the nastiest country you can find where the elk are and you find antlers. Walking nonstop for 3 hours up and down steep ridges is how you walk yourself to death. Not walking the easy trails that everyone else has already hit. But I understand coming from people like you and shedhunter you wouldn't understand since you have never done it. Give a call to my bishop at church and ask if I was in church Sunday at 1:00 in Heber and see what he says. I'm good but not that good to make a quick trip to NE New Mexico and back to Heber in 6 hours just to find 9 antlers. So here's the deal. You could be totally legit, I don't know, the other people posting in this thread don't know, and heck I bet your bishop in Heber doesn't even know. My whole thing is from my angle your story sounds fishy. You said you found 9 sheds in 3 hours, and walked yourself to death, and your quad looks like its been been off road with brush under it. You coulda made things alot easier on yourself by not posting pictures of all your horns laying on your quad. Would it really have been that hard to take a picture with your pack off the quad against a tree or on the ground? Then you wouldn't have had to go through the trouble of covering the license plate. Just saying. And in regards to hiking nasty ridges up and down for 3 hours really isn't all that hard, and I think most seasoned shed hunters would attest to that. Walking all day long with a couple breaks for water and a snack, is not unheard of, and putting 10-15 miles/day isn't all that uncommon either. For the record I've gone shed hunting a time or two, and I've found a horn or two, but to be perfectly honest, i don't want to post pics on here as there is enough competition out there for sheds, and I don't want to inspire any other people to head out and possibly find my spots, if that makes me paranoid or selfish than so be it. But the one thing i can't stand is lazy quad hunters, and every year Im coming across quad tracks miles from any road, and it makes me sick. So like i said earlier, you are the only one who knows if you did it the legit way, or if you are a cheater. If you really walked up those 9 horns, then congrats and my apologies, as that is one heck of an afternoon. That would be a pretty solid weekend, let alone a day for most people.

Anyone else find this story to be suspicious? 9 Horns in 3 hours, "walked himself to death" in only 3 hours, and a quad with brush stuck up under it. How exactly does that happen anyway, if you are driving where you are supposed to?

So previously I thought that your card gets charged when you draw a tag, if it is approved you get a tag, if declined they move onto the next app in order. However it seems from what I have read is that they go through and complete the draw, and then go back through and complete bulk credit card charges. Then if cards decline they fill those in with the next person. (Please correct me if I'm wrong with my understanding there) I have a couple concerns with the above process, and honestly can't see how declined cards don't result in a complete redraw. See the below example: Example. Two guys put unit 9 archery bull first choice, and 6a second choice. Let's says application A gets tag 75/75 for unit 9, and applicant B is the very next one to get drawn, and he misses getting unit 9 by one tag so instead gets his second choice 6a tag. Now let's say they go in and charge everyone, and applicant A's card gets declined, does applicant B then get his first choice unit 9 tag, or do they pick someone else to fill it? If they move applicant B to unit 9, then does that free up another unit 6a tag? Then shifting everyone else up one tag number? Possibly giving another person a 6a tag? Or do they just pick the next person who would've gotten a unit 9 tag and fill them in thereby leap frogging the person that missed getting a unit 9 tag by one? See what I'm saying? I don't see how they can possibly handle a declined card without having to redo the whole draw. Anyone have any ideas?

You can call, or download the maps. http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/landmanagement/projects/?cid=stelprdb5356224 I just reviewed the maps again, and am having a hard time finding anywhere on coconino, that you can't drive within a couple of miles of, that's not a wilderness area. There's still a ton of roads criss crossing everywhere, just not seeing why you guys are getting so bent out of shape. I

I acknowledge that it will affect people's livliehoods, change usually does. I'm just saying there are alternatives. The forest service isn't saying they can no longer get fuel wood, just that it may be tougher. Do you feel that its ok to just allow those people to drive off road and go wherever they want to get wood? I can take you to some spots in the kaibab forest where they have created numerous roads some several miles long in the pursuit of firewood. Is that fair to the rest of us who like to enjoy the forest for them to tear it up, just because they need to stay warm?