trufletch

I think you got three types of hunters out there. One type will shoot the 1st buck they see, regardless of horn size. The second has size in mind and will only shoot one that fits whatever size qualifications that hunter has. This one will be willing to come home empty handed at the end of a hunt, the rational being that if you shoot a little one, you can't shoot a big one. The last is the hunter that is trying to score on a large horned buck but come the last day of his or her hunt decides that filling the freezer with venison is ok and takes whatever opportunity avails itself. I personally don't think the current harvest levels and horn size of those deer that are harvested have any negative affect on future trophy bucks. Those of us that spend time in the hills usually see the same amount of spikes, fork horns and larger bucks year after year. Course, i'm just a simple, uneducated desert rat and probably don't know what i'm talking about and got no scientific, empirical data to back it up, so you may want to take all this with a grain of salt. Trufletch

firstcoueswas80- My neighbor got his whitetail opening morning near Patagonia lake- says all the deer he saw were low in the draws. His was a 4x2. Bigger side had a kicker point. Shot it at 275 yards with a 30-30 Thompson contender w/14"barrel 2X scope. Says the crosshairs completely covered the deer. Took a longer shot than he wanted, but had limited hunting time. Hit him in the femoral artery crawled about 10 feet and died, bled out pretty quick. Waiting to hear from some other friends about their hunt- good luck Trufletch

ajohunter- I will be on my last scouting trip this weekend and hunt the nov hunt. let me know as well what area you were in and i will keep an eye for the crows and scavengers- If I come across him, will let you know. trufletch

.243 is a little light for the elk hunts. Everything else will do the job. You can find ammo or load your own up and down depending on the animal your hunting. The mags seem to kick like a mule unless you use muzzle brakes, even though, I don't find them much fun when shooting at the range. I have taken coues with .243, .270 and 30-06. and I like em all. My current favorite for the last 10 years or so has been the .270 Remington 700 bdl. leupold vari xIII scope., but I think I am going to use the ruger 30-06 this year. Any of the calibers will work for the game in Arizona. Good luck on you choices, it's like being a little kid in the candy store. trufletch

gnoto-sorry, don't know the names of the ponds or tanks around Batamote. Drop me an e-mail at trufletch @aol.com and i'll see if i can help you out. trufletch

peckl1- I know the shrine your talking about. I figure its some coues mojo working. For future reference on the quail, we see scalies up on top of Batamote, on the northern part and mearns in the hills just to the west of that coues mojo shrine, especially that hill to the west with the top that has the thickest bunch of ocotillo you have ever seen- seen cats and coues on there as well. Rough walking with the shin diggers that are growing there tho. ... good luck trufletch

peckl1- Like you, i have worn out some leather and left more than a little blood,sweat and tears in thise hills. Not sure which shrine your talking about. There are actually 2 ponds before the end of the road, the 1st one has water constantly and the other is about 1/4 mile or less from the end. In between those ponds is an area we camp in alot. the guy that taught me to hunt and was my hunting partner for 20+ years passed away a few years ago- we spread his ashes in that area and when we are back, we pay homage to the crusty old boy. He started hunting those hills in the 1950's and knew lots of great areas. Sure do miss him. Don't mind passing on some of that knowledge. Trufletch

gnoto- anytime you can take out the primary predator in the area out of the scene, you will help the hunting cause. Like all hunts, you have more people in an area the 1st coupla days, then it tapers off. The area has some pretty good access and jumping off points. If you come off I-19 westbound on Arivaca rd. About 5-6 miles in, after you drive thru Marley cattle company(about 1 mile past Marley), you will see an cattle guard and opening on the right, go thru there. this is in the area of Sheriff's Mesa. Stay on the main road. Several roads branch off to the right(these will actually take you into the Sierritas.), stay on the main rd and about 6 miles in you will see Batamote ranch on the left. You can drive through the gates. The road will turn westbound and about 1 mile up you can see Batamoteon your left real well. There is a dirt road that heads off to the south and cuts the west side of Batamote Hill. This eventually dead ends on the north-eastern side of the Cerro Colorados. If you want to hunt Batamote, i suggest you park near the silver/rusted ,tall thin water tank. By walking only a coupla hundred yards, you can glass the Western slope of Batamote. Don't let it fool you, there is alot of country there to glass. Real rocky, real steep. the deer seem to bed down on that slope. To get on top of Batamote, either come in from the ranch side or continue past that silver/rusted water tank.The hill tapers down and you can gain easier access to the top. Just a note, about a mile past that silver/rusted tank, there is a cattle pond that the deer will water at. This tank is maybe 1/2 mile from where the road deadends. I have humped into this side of the Cerro Colorados and also had great success. Get back in 1/2 mile and you probably won't see a soul. There are some water catchments in this area as well. Real good coues country(lions too.) Most of these roads that head east/west will take you around the north side of the Cerro Colorados and dump you out on the western side. Usually a ton of deer camps there. You can even get into some of the smaller sets of hills from there. You will probably see several camps just before Batamote Ranch and 1 or 2 after the ranch, but my experience is that these are mulie hunters, normally not a factor. Good luck, If you want more info and just to pick my brain, send me an email message @Trufletch @aol.com. Sorry to all if this message is to long. I don't mind sharing info if I have it. Trufletch

gnoto- Are you talking about Batamote hill, next to the Batamote ranch on the north side of the cerro colorados in 36A? If so I have hunted that thing all over and could give some decent advice. We have taken numerous bucks out of there. Let me know. trufletch

I think alot of folks try to pick a caliber that will work on several species. If you have the bucks for only one hunting rifle, why not pick one that you know you can use for everything from javelina to elk. I know you can load up the other calibers and shot placement is important, but some folks like the big magnums. I am from the school that if you are proficient with the weapon, understand the limitations of that weapon and of yourself and don't stretch the limitations of either, then you are doing allright. I just hate getting beat up by some of the magnums. Seems they tear me up and cease to be fun to shoot, course i have never had the pleasure to shoot one with muzzle breaks and other recoil reducers. Trufletch

Like most of the people on this forum, I like to get out and hump the hills, get away from the crowds and glass my eyes off. I too have paid my dues in strained eyeballs, sunburn and worn out leather. Last time i actually rifle hunted mulies, 15+ years ago (36B), we had hunted our tails off with no luck. Last day of the season, driving to an area to glass, we saw 2 mulie bucks at first light, about 100 yards off. A fork horn and a 3X2 just off the 2track we were on. I am not one to look the gift horse in the mouth. I got out, loaded the rifle, was able to move away from the truck and nail the 3X2. My partner got the other. Didn't shoot across the 2 track and did not shoot from the cab of the truck. This is just the way it goes sometimes. Normally, most of the game shot has to be packed, dragged for miles out of the hills. I prefer getting out and away from the masses. I know there will come a day that I won't be able to climb the hills like I do now, Just try to stay in shape so I can and hopefully when the day comes that I can't climb em any more, my boy, like Lark will be there to give me a hand. trufletch

can never go wrong with the .270. Several years ago, i had a friend of mine who used to shoot big bore competition help me with my .270. Took the Remington 700 BDL action and barrel, dropped into into a macmillan stock with aluminum blocks, floated it, stuck a Leupold VIII on it. Have it sighted in dead on at 285 yards. I spend quite a bit of time shooting it and can drive some tacks with it. Really a comfortable rifle to shoot and have taken many coues with it. 2 years ago, I bought a stainless Ruger M77, composite stock in 30.06. This also has the Leupold VIII. This thing is just as accurate. Haven't hunted with it tho- may use it this year. I just have a hard time puttin down the .270. Most important is to use a rifle that you are comfortable with and shoot well. Trufletch

Ernesto- the rut in southern Az depends on about a jillion factors-normally sometime in january,even late decemeber, that's why so many people want that late december tag. Like i said in another thread, about the time I think I have em figured out, they make a fool of me, and thats not hard to do, normally don't need any help in that department. These deer are alot like people. all individuals, you got the social ones, not so social and loners. I have seen mature bucks, from the time they grow the horns, till they drop and never with another buck. I think other mature bucks will use the little ones as cannon fodder-suicide missions- send em out and see if they get shot at. We have all seen when the shooting starts, deer we did not even see, tho we glassed the grass off the hill, start running, usually bigger bucks than the one we are shooting at. just my nickels worth. Trufletch

I have noticed the same thing in units 33, 36A and 36C. Funny thing tho, just across the road in 36B, the coues bucks seem to congregate in smaller numbers. There they also seem to run the gamut, but to be honest with you, I can't recall seeing a bruiser in 36B with the real young bucks. The bruisers in 36B seem to like their solitude year round, or it could be just the area we are in. Just about the time I think I've got these guys figured out, they go and stump me again and I head back to the drawing board. guess thats why they call it hunting and not shooting. trufletch

In my humble experience, I don't think the bucks care who they hang out with, as long as the rut isn't happening. During the October and November hunts, we consistently see bachelor herds that run the gamut on horn size. Coupla years ago we watched a bachelor herd of 7 coues bucks on the side of the hill. Everything from a fork to a 108". I know he was 108" because we found them again that afternoon and my brother made a beauty shot on the 108". When the rut kicks in, all bets are off and mother nature takes over. Trufletch

Grande Bear- With this one, your at the mercy of the Game Ranger. We have all seen people(I am hesitant to call them hunters), driving all over creation, all day long-those are road hunters. Never get off the beaten track or off the ATV's for that matter. Hopefully, the Game Ranger has been watching the area long enough and knows who is truly hunting and who puts more miles on an ATV than on their personal cars. You may have to convinve him or her, just remember they are not the definitive answer if there is a conflict. It's a hassle, but you can still take the thing to court- Never any guarantees though. Good luck. Trufletch

I agree with coues addict. There is a time and place for all things. Personally, i bought a quad last year but only use it in designated areas and don't go off the designated jeep trails. I use it to get from point a to point b in a hurry. I have found that if i am hunting an area and deside I want to be 10 miles elsewhere, the quad works well. I don't hunt off the back of it. Get to an area I want to be in, park it and wear out the leather of my boots. I see too many people that rip thru my camps or in an area that I know doesn't even remotely have a jeep trail near it and shoot off the back. Heck, last year i could have used the quad to go in and get my deer, but because i knew there were other hunters in the area, kept it parked and hauled the deer out to the road. Like the rest of my gear, this is just a tool and if used properly can help out the hunting experience. trufletch

just wondering about the salt licks i keep reading about that the cams are going up over. Are people using natural salt licks, licks that are placed by ranchers for the cattle or are you strategically placing your own? and if so, what kind are being used. I see them all the time, have never seen deer working them, but would like to utilize some cams and looking for some pointers. Thanks for the help trufletch

.270- sorry about your negative run-ins with the law. Hope I can meet you in the field sometime-I'll help you glass, heck, I'll even pack your deer out for you. We aren't all bad and yes, I chase real bad guys, doing real bad things. Some types of LEO's sole job is to enforce Forest service laws or game laws. Most of these folks that I have run into have been professional, courteous and helpful, and they didn't know that I am a LEO. I hope your luck changes with the LEO's. Remember- it may not be fair, but you get what you radiate. If they are jerks, be professional, if you feel you are being wronged, find out who their supervisor is and write complaints. Good luck Trufletch

I carry orange surveyers tape with me. Tie a bunch of foot long streamers to the antlers when I pack him out. I am normally camo'd out. Just because they are my huntin clothes, stay with the rest of my gear. Trufletch

270- Please tread lightly when you began bashing the law enforcement community. Like any profession, there are some jerks, and we have our share in law enforcement. unfortunately, the jerks are the ones that give us a bad name and the ones that most people remember. Don't be too quick to jump on them about enforcing policies that are coming from levels way above theirs. Chances are the street (or forest level) guys are getting their chops busted by a bean counter in Washington D.C. and we all know what a zoo that is. These guys have to follow directives just like anyone would in any given profession. So please try not to lump all of us into the pond scum category. I have been in law enforcement for almost 17 years and there are a lot of great folks doing a very difficult job. Best of luck on your hunts and be safe. trufletch

Coues Addict- The age old question on the ethics of technology. I personally feel that if there is a product like a range-finder thats given purpose is to assist you in harvesting an animal in a humane, quick manner, then it is ethical. I have used a range-finder for several years and I can tell you that it is helped me become a better judge of distance. I play a game- guess the distance then check my guess against the rangefinders numbers. I am getting better and like the coues I shot last year @362 yards, I was able to make a clean,swift kill. I am also quite comfortable shooting the .270 out to that range. Weapom proficiency is even more important. If you can't shoot the thing, no amount of range-judging is going to help. Just a note. If I could have gotten any closer to last years coues, I would surely have tried, not a stick of hidable vegetation or boulders between him and me. Ranged him, had time for a good, solid rest, knew what the rifle drop was at that distance and let her fly. He did not move a foot from where he was standing. Good luck and keep practicing. Trufletch

Welcome to cwt Hillbilly Al- Good topo maps will help you out immensely. These deer can be a bit hard to spot. Good optics and for many of us, a tripod and patience. Find a vantage point and glass till your eyes fallout. Just a safety note- alot of 35A is smack dab in the middle of high traffick areas for human and dope smugglers. Be very aware of your surroundings, not all that goes bump in the night is a four legged critter. Don't be paranoid, but be safe and have fun. These coues are very addictive. Trufletch

Lots of good discussion on what's a good caliber for deer. We have harvested them with .243, .270, 30.06. Most important is using a weapon that you are intimately familiar with and shoot well. I suggest lots of time at the range, dialing in the gun. Most all the calibers mentioned in this string will easily handle the coues. Shot placement, knowing what your bullet does at the different ranges and staying within your comfort zone on the shot is what is important. Good luck to all Trufletch

I've been fortunate enough to hunt parts of the unit. A good topo map is going to be important alot of the Rincon's is part of the Saguaro National Monument. Goes clear down the eastside. Happy Valley(Turkey Creek area) will have alot of hunters but most never got but about 1/2 mile from the roads. There is some private property just north of Happy Valley so the road pretty much dies right there. We have tried to contact the land owner in the past for access, but to no avail. Usually 1 or 2 guided camps in the area as well. I harvested an 85" coues in 33 and a day later we spotted up a bachelor herd of 7 coues bucks. One was a keeper. My brother got onto him late that afternoon and made a great shot. He grossed 108". A year later I flirted with a 95" buck for an entire afternoon. He decided to spend that day about 100 yards inside the Monument fence and would never cross over. Of course his forked horn friend like to jump back and forth but not him. Even though there may be lots of camps on the backside of the Rincons, like I said, most of the hunters I observed never got far from the road, so If you are willing to wear out your boots, you can get into some unbothered animals. Good hunting. Trufletch