savagman

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. Predators killing deer. Not sure the accurate number a lion eats in a year but each doe killed takes out potentially three deer.

I think we are mostly on the same page and I appreciate the time and effort you put into doing it right. I really dig getting close and will continue to do so whether using a pistol, crossbow or rifle. I apologize for my overarching comment. I got off topic and didn't mean to say anything negative about other hunters. My whole point was that we should support all legal hunting activity. Even if you do it different. Fighting amongst ourselves helps the anti hunting crowd. Their strategy is death by 100 cuts.

Seems many missed the point. This thread has now become bash or defend archers. The point was that all methods evolve and technology has changed. Don't bash fellow hunters because you personal experiences have led you to different styles or methods. I don't use much tech in the field but do use OnX, Google Earth, GPS etc. Most of us do. I like shooting a bow but have, in the past, committed to practice at a level to be good at it. And yet good shot placement from under 20 yards on Javelina did not always work out as planned. Each and every shot that didn't work out, would have with a firearm. Call that bad luck, bash my skill or equipment, or whatever, but you cannot call me ignorant. My comment on wounding % is based on my personal experience and many peer reviewed studies. Wounding is unfortunately always a possibility. But place a bow and a firearm in the hands of minimally proficient hunters and the firearm results will be vastly superior. Before anyone gets defensive. It takes commitment to practice and great skill to shoot a bow well. I respect those of you that bow hunt ethically and responsibly. But the sport has grown immensely and many do not have the skill level that you do. Everyone starts somewhere and I do not hope to discourage new hunters. I simply have used my personal experience to decide that I do not feel ethical using a bow when a more efficient tool is available. I like the earlier hunts so will probably use a more advanced weapon for the HAM hunts. Please do not bash my decision and legal right to use handgun or fight about what should be considered a handgun. Rather support my right as I will support and defend every right we have as hunters, whether I personally participate or not.

I agree. Neck injury prevents me from ethically shooting a bow. Crossbow permits are for hunters with disabilities. Nerve damage is hard to see so be careful talking about abuses. If you met me in the field you may think I am not disabled but I cannot perform the repetitive motion needed to practice. I have never fired my crossbow past 40 yards. Not even in practice. That's not why I bought one or get the permit. Still snuck to 10 yards to kill a Javelina with it. My #1 reason to obtain the permit was that I love to hunt Javelina in January.

Interesting topic. I ask myself what drives me to hunt. Interesting to hear from others (non-snarky replies). Not about fancy gear. My patched Walmart camo pants are my favorite. Patched butt area. Not sure why the butt wore out because I don't follow the wear the seat out of your pants advice. I find myself hiking too much and still hunting too fast. I guess I like seeing more country. Not about expensive guns. Ours get used. Carried through brush. Have imperfections associated with hunting use. Memories attached to stock dents. (That's from my first Coues hunt, fell on loose rock trying to go after deer uphill haha never saw that deer again). Love my Remington Game Master 30-06. Remington 700 CDL .270 for longer shots. We hunt hard. We don't take long shots ( just a personal choice due to gear and practice limits). We take and use all of the meat and organs. Enjoy and remember a successful hunt throughout the year via delicious meals. Had elk stew this week. Elk Chili last week. Always looking to add to recipe list. Tinkering with and expanding skill in sausage making and old school curing methods for preservation. My perspective is utilitarian. I hunt to eat. My tools are tools. I enjoy the basic carnal urge to hunt and provide sustenance for my family. In today's ever increasingly crowded and over tech world, I find it peaceful and centering to do what man has done for centuries. I daydream when in the woods and imagine no man has ever set foot where I am at that moment. Or envision ancestral humans hunting from the same overlook or natural stand. Find an arrowhead, pottery shard, or discoidal stone and that daydream becomes more of a vision or perhaps deja vu...

This is me and my family. But different strokes for different folks. Just keep it legal and represent the sport well.

Seems many missed the point. This thread has now become bash or defend archers. The point was that all methods evolve and technology has changed. Don't bash fellow hunters because your personal experiences have led you to different styles or methods. I don't use much tech in the field but do use OnX, Google Earth, GPS etc. Most of us do. I like shooting a bow but have, in the past, committed to practice at a level to be good at it. And yet good shot placement from under 20 yards on Javelina did not always work out as planned. Each and every shot that didn't work out, would have with a firearm. Call that bad luck, bash my skill or equipment, or whatever, but you cannot call me ignorant. My comment on wounding % is based on my personal experience and many peer reviewed studies. Wounding is unfortunately always a possibility. But place a bow and a firearm in the hands of minimally proficient hunters and the firearm results will be vastly superior. Before anyone gets defensive. It takes commitment to practice and great skill to shoot a bow well. I respect those of you that bow hunt ethically and responsibly. But the sport has grown immensely and many do not have the skill level that you do. Everyone starts somewhere and I do not hope to discourage new hunters. I simply have used my personal experience to decide that I do not feel ethical using a bow when a more efficient tool is available. I like the earlier hunts so will probably use a more advanced weapon for the HAM hunts. Please do not bash my decision and legal right to use handgun or fight about what should be considered a handgun. Rather support my right as I will support and defend every right we have as hunters, whether I personally participate or not.

To the elitist bow hunters on here - are your modern compound bows the same as when the archery hunts were envisioned? Archery technology allows longer, and more precise shots for the average hunter. Arrow and broadhead technology has improved dramatically. And yet archers wound a high % of what they shoot at. It is ridiculous to attack muzzleloaders when many of the same arguments could apply to modern bows and arrows. How about your laser rangefinder, cell phone, OnX or other hunting apps? GPS? The law is the law and we should all follow it. Ethics are more personal. I limit rifle shots to 400 yards and then only if conditions are right for me. If a guy puts more time in at the range and/or has better equipment why would I begrudge him taking a longer shot? (I do not). It's not my thing but why do I care if: A. It's legal and B. He is comfortable with his equipment and skill. When we get into the weeds and criticize our fellow hunters for legal methods we help anti's achieve their goals.

That was exactly my point. If it's legal you do you and let others do it their way. Don't help the Anti crowd. Also does the federal definition of a pistol make it legal for state hunts or does AZ have specific criteria?

Ah there it is the my way of hunting is superior crowd has shown up

Killed pigs with, .222 Remington in T/C pistol, Kimber .45, 30-06 rifle, Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R (with hunting ammo) .243 rifle. Compound Bow and Crossbow. All dead fast. Compound bow the least effective of all mentioned despite 15 yard shot through vitals. Crossbow reaction was more like a firearm. Dropped pretty much in it's tracks Probably could have taken one with a spear or knife if legal. I have never been an AR guy but built one recently. I am going to build another. A pistol in 300 Blackout. Plan to use for Javelina. Possibly subsonic and suppressed. Mixed opinions online but with the right bullet (expand at lower velocity) it should perform well. After all we are talking about a small critter at very close range.

I'm waiting for the, "anything less than a 300 win mag is unethical crowd to chime in.....

I ran into guys in Greer area picking mushrooms. Obviously dangerous hobby for the uneducated. Any mushroom guys out there? I would like to learn and join a group, take classes, etc. Any tips, leads, or contact info appreciated.

No use for this reply.... I will try to be helpful. Read http://javelinahunter.com/ Good information there. Old article but if they were around in 2015 you can bet they are still around. https://kjzz.org/content/156169/javelina-cause-problems-yuma-area-farmers. Talk to farmers and farm workers. Scout farms with adjacent desert vegetation. Talk to the wildlife manager for your unit(s). We have had quite a bit of rain lately. Drive roads, walk washes, check water sources after a rain looking for fresh tracks. Look for rooting activity and dug up forbs. When you find sign, get high and glass if you can. If you locate them, watch and learn. Reach out to members on this site that participated here.

Have some copper ammo looking to trade

Nothing new for a while - anyone have a great recipe to share?

Yikes - I guess that makes sense. Guys on here react strongly to anyone asking for information... Guy I talked to near Greer told a story of an entire family that needed Kidney transplants due to misidentification. I don't want Toad's wild ride or failing organs, I just hope to find someone or a group willing to teach. Not honey holes just solid identification and look alike information specific to AZ. With all this rain, the forest is littered with shrooms

Your generous offer for delicious elk meat is appreciated. Elk burger is great and versatile. Switching it up and keeping things fresh is the challenge. It's like Arby's around here - we have the meats - looking for creative recipes Rotation of dishes using ground elk Meatloaf Shepard's Pie Green Chile Taco's Empanada's Tamales (Tamale Pie) haven't made actual tamales recently Sloppy Joes Salisbury steak SOS Mix with tube of beef chorizo and season up - best chorizo ever

dang that looks good. May have to get some pizza dough and whip something up

I don't know the why's but I do know that lifting vs. drawing a bow are vastly different things. I can lift 65lbs but drawing a bow is a different deal. I can do it but suffer the consequences. I think the inability to put the repetition in at practice leads to ethical questions. If I can draw a bow and shoot at an animal, is that ethical if my injury prohibits practice? (After several draws I aggravate my neck injury. I experience pain radiating down my arm and lose sensation in my hand. I just can't ethically hunt with a bow right now. Many people find themselves in this situation which is why temporary crossbow permits are available. This is Peckl1's threat and I am not looking to hijack it or start a fight. Just saying that injuries and disabilities are not always readily apparent. Peckl1 was looking for a doc that could certify his disability. Plus 1 on chiropractor. And maybe he can get you moving a little better as well.

Signed up

Anyone hunting California or the Kaibab? Need/want copper? Looking to trade (prefer) or sell 130 grain copper .270 Win ammo for either 150 grain bonded .270 Win or 180 grain bonded 30-06 ammo. I have two boxes - new. This is all I have been able to find for 6 months. Not really what I want but someone will want it for the right hunt.

Got your PM and replied. Prefer a trade but retail plus tax and a fair markup will work too. (For AZ CWT members).

Majority of Arizona hunters do it voluntarily. A higher percentage in AZ do because they are asked than hunters in CA do because they are told (it's required by law in CA). Less lead poisoning in condors as a result. That's something for Kaibab hunters to be proud of and several lessons on human nature.... We have used copper on several Kaibab deer hunts. A buck and a couple youth doe hunts. I have also used leftover copper ammo in .270 for cow elk. All performed very well. Pass through shots except the elk. I recovered that bullet just under the far hide. Expanded beautiful and dropped her practically I'm her tracks. Anyways, all I have found is copper ammo, didn't draw a tag for anything. Folks that drew may want to use non toxic in the condor zone if they can.

The shortage of 12 gauge shells should help them out.... You are ok if you shoot 28 gauge or 16 gauge