308Nut

Many of the LR guys think that under 90 grains of powder, standard primers work best. I found that to be true with my 300 win mag but the edge worked best with magnum. Then again, one uses 70-80 grains and the othe 90-100 grains. I have definitely experienced high pressure signs using magnum primers in cartridges that are not optimum for them as well as scattered extreme spreads.

Now just have to decide: 6.5x284 or 300 win mag...I'm thinking 6.5 Can't hardly wait.

I forget exact numbers but the weight variances between bullets (ALR) is very small. At least with the lot I have. They are even a bit better than the 208s I have. They are very consistent. The base to ogive measurements are extremely consistent as well. As good as the last lot of bergers I measured. The nose profile of the 208 is slightly sleeker than the 210 ALR whereas the boat tail of the ALR is more aggressive. Whatever the differences, the ALR while close in BC to the 208, is slightly less than the 208. While many are pissed off that the BCs aren't close to published, I'm happy that there is finally a bonded bullet designed for controlled expansion with a true BC on par with the VLDs that will also expand at lower than 1800'sec impact velocities. With their rapid expansion, they in theory should provide the quick kills seen with bergers and amax's. Time will tell. With their lower velocity for expansion properties, they're a dream come true for a 308 enthusiast like me. I'm already starting out with velocities on the lower end. With the 190 Berger, at 5000' I'm limited to 750 yards for reliable expansion even though there is still nearly 1400# of mathematical energy. With the 190 ALR (assuming its BC is near the VLD) I'll have expansion past 1K and the magic 1000# of energy at 1K.

I have found the 210s to be quite accurate. BCs are no where near published. They are however very close to the 210 VLD.

Sometimes its just good to change things up a bit and try new things. Just in time for antelope season! I started by taking my 6.5 barrel and cutting an inch of the breech end, 1/4" off the muzzle making it 26". Then I had fit it to a long 700 action as it was on a short action utilizing a Wyatt box magazine. Pillar bedded it to a new McMillan A3 in GAP camo replacing the HTG in desert camo. Ditched the 'heavy' recoil lug to save a bit of weight. She shoots as good as ever. After 2 days of load tuning due to the new barrel length, and added case capacity, all groups at my 300 yard zero averaged under .5MOA. None worse than .77MOA. In fact there were only 2 test groups over .65 MOA out of 9 total groups. One was .164MOA. Most were in the .2-.3s. All groups added together and divided equaled under .5. As heavy as it looks, it is under 10.5#. Then I took my 308 and replaced the barrel with a new Hart barrel cut to 26" and pillar bedded it to a new McMillan A5 in McMillan camo. While I do like the stock, I may even say I love it, I like the A3 better. Good news! I have a new A3 in GAP camo as a 'switch' stock to go with it. Added new machined aluminum bottom metal anodized black for cosmetics and I have new rifles without having new rifles.

You can get a 30 MOA rail if 20 isn't enough

Coues are small and shots tend to be at distance. Pick the one you hit small targets with the best. 22-250 to 50 bmg will get the job done. Don't worry about the caliber. Worry about shot placement. Since you'll most likely do more glassing than walking, weight is of minimal concern. Accuracy is your best friend on a coues hunt.

longrangehunting.com There are a lot of links in the chain to successful long range hunting. All links must be strong. The best shooting rifle is only as good as the nut behind the butt but the best marksman is only as good as the system their using.

I think a lot of the users here that use 300 win mags or other large cartidges for 85# coues bucks do so because they also occasionally draw elk tags or go out of state for elk or other large game. They don't want to use 243s on larger game and don't want 2 or 3 calibers. They don't shoot them enough to care about the recoil. They just want a hammer for the largest game they might hunt in their lifetime. Not a bad idea IMHO.

AWESOME! If there were ever one and only one rifle/caliber to own, that's about as well balanced as it gets right there. Very very nice. Let us know how she shoots.

+1 I find myself enjoying a fixed 16x over my variable 22x much more. With the clarity and brightness, I don't notice the images being much smaller and it's easier on my eyes. M

I've seen it with deer. An acquaintance of mine years ago said he saw 'the big' one I had been hunting for several years in the August/September archery season just north of Phoenix in hard horn during the September part of the hunt. I laughed at him. A couple weeks later I saw him just after the season ended and he was indeed hard horned and already dark brown. His neck was huge. I was only 30 yards from him, there was no mistake. He was rut ready loooong before other buck were even near ready to strip velvet. I think the oldest and most dominant animals are ready to go long before the others. Just my opinion.

I can get on the mobile version via the IPhone without trouble but have to resort to secret techniques to use the 'full site'. Can't touch it with the desktop.

I have found most hornady bullets to be higher than published. Some by not too much and others by a lot. I use .514 for the 178 out to 700 yards at 308 velocity. 850 I have to use published and 1k I have to use .450 I think they use lower velocities for their testing because it has been proven that the 208 at 2900'sec is .665-.670 yet they publish .648. Litz tested it and found it to be .647 at 25 or 2600'sec which is close to published. Litz proclaims .633 based on a BC average between 2900 and 1500'sec. His test at 2900 showed .665. My experiments have shown .671 at 2900 and .647 at 2675. Very close to Litz and hornady. The 140 VLD is visibly sleeker than the Amax and I find that .612 is spot on.

The published BC of the 140 amax is indeed low. Bryan Litz uses .599. I use .603 based on near and far chronies and drops which agree. The 140 SST has shown me .58 repeatedly. I only use the 140 VLD because I have so many and only a few hundred amax's. other than that, I favor the Amax.

I experience the exact same thing in the 6.5x284 using 140 amax's and SSTs. Exact same 300 yard zero poi but a 30-40 FPS difference.

My rifle prefers .001" jump. Any more, touching or jammed and she won't shoot them very well. Amax's prefer a bit of jump. I forget off the top of my head but I think it was .015-.020". Most rifles like VLDs just touching but a handful prefer some jump and some prefer some jam.

Sometimes magnum primers used in smaller cartridges seem to cause sharper pressure spikes. I know in two of my rifles, using them beats up the brass more so than standard. I say seem because I don't know that for a fact, it just seems like a pattern between my three primary weapons. Also, I had trouble with high extreme spreads using the 210M with the 4831. Somebody (I think it was on this site) recommended the Remington 9-1/2 primer for this combo. I tried it and dropped them to single digits most of the time. Sometimes I get 12-17 and on RARE occasions 20. But 85+% of the time its single. I shoot 90% of my shots over a crony to monitor this and other potential problems as they start to happen. Any primer will get the job done. Its up to you how picky you want to get.

H4831SC has shown me two accuracy nodes in my barrel. 2850-2880 and 2950-2965. In my rifle 2950+ is on the warm side so most of my shooting is done at 2852. Hunting gets done at 2965. I've seen 3100'sec with retumbo. It is stout and hot. As far as accuracy and consistency are concerned H4831SC had just been pure amazing. In 20 years of LR shooting, I've never had a load like this in any rifle. Close, but not quite this good.

50-53 of H4831SC is one if the most popular loads with rem 9.5 primers. This has proven true in mine. My go to load is 51.5 and is surgical accuracy, day to day consistency with single digit extreme spreads. A close second in popularity and in my rifle is 46-47 H4350 and 210Ms. Another super accurate load with single digit spreads. My rifle also agrees. A close third is 42-43ish or R22 with Winchester primers. I've had good luck with it as well. Also WITHOUT the temp sensitivity that R22 is commonly accused of. 52-55 of H1000 is a close fourth. I've never been able to get it to work in my rig. A handful of guys use Retumbo. 57.5-59 grains and 215Ms. I've played with it. I never found a good day to day consistency to it so I gave up on it. It does offer really high velocity though.

If you want to spot your own shots short of 700 or so yards OR keep the recoil to "pussycat'' levels a brake will get you there. Needed? not for most but there is something to be said for keeping it to a minimum. Some are more comfortable to use than others. Some are designed in a way that creates a concusion effect and gives you a headache despite making your shoulder feel better. I hate breaks but when I have to have them I prefer a few degrees forward angle. This keeps the most of if not all escaping gas directed forward and away from your head. They are also very effective if done properly. There needs to be sufficient surface area in the ports to be effective. Skinny brakes with shallow holes aren't as effective. In the end, it's shooter preference. We all have different ideas if what is important on or off of our rifles and differing tolerances to recoil.

I'll have to count them but I'll let them go for 250.00 per 500 and I'll prorate them to however many I have. Basically $0.50 a piece. They're over .60 at midway or Sinclair. I'll have to ship them to you. I can use USPS priority flat rate. I think it's 10 or 11 bucks. If you could split that 50% I'd be grateful. I just looked at my Berger stock and realized I have far fewer than I thought. Only 5. I'd be happy to just throw them in there. Segregated of course! I do have a bit under 200 of the Berger elite hunter 250 grain pills too. I don't know if you're interested in those or not.

26" is a great balance for the 6.5x284. Mine has worn 27-1/4" and now wears 26" I don't feel like I'm giving up anything except a bit of muzzle blast but still not bad. I've never tried shorter than 26 such as 20-24" so I can only offer a guess. My guess is that your shorter barrel and traditional slower powders won't burn completely and leave you with A LOT of muzzle blast and very reduced velocities. In an effort to keep your velocity up and muzzle blast down, you'll need faster powders which will leave you with a lot of empty space in the case. As has been stated, 8 is very popular. 8.5 has been gaining a lot of popularity and for good reason. 9 works on any hunt in the state if Arizona with its warm air and above sea level location. 2700'sec with the 140 VLD offers a 1.46 stability factor at 5000' altitude and 65 degrees. More than adequate but if you ever hunt near sea level in below freezing you'll drop to 1.11. Still adequate but most guys want a little extra since barrels are sometimes more nominal than exact (ie: 9 twist really turned out to be 9.25). The good news is that it is happening less and less. My next one will be 8.5. It will handle the 140s and the 160 Matrix with ease but I'm not afraid of the 8 twist. Consider a 3 groove barrel. They are holding up better on the barrel burner cartridges. Mine is no exception. The throat has held up much better than the guys at the local matches 5 and 6 groove barrels have been. Granted, I dont use my 6.5 at the matches. Lilja and Mullerworks both make 3 groove barrels. Both are top notch. I had trouble with my last lilja copper fouling but with the day to day consistency of it, accuracy, ease of cleaning etc...I gave up worrying about it. Dan offered to look it over and relap it need be but I never sent it off due to the way it shot.

I have nearly five hundred 300 grain SMK bullets from the same lot I could sell you. I also have a handful of 300 grain hybrids. Let me know. M

140 VLD, 140 Amax, 140 SST are my favorites in the 6.5x284 followed by the 140 Accubond. Call me crazy but I've tested the SST to death and keep coming up with a BC of.58. Well above the published value. Even though the SST has a lower BC versus the VLD and Amax, they expand reliably at 1600'sec which extends your range over the VLD with an expansion threshold of 1800'sec on average. Slightly less mathematical energy but more energy transfer at longer ranges. With all that said, I shoot more VLDs out of my 6.5 than anything but if I drew a good mulie tag I'd use the SST. That's if I didn't take my 308. The ACCUBOND has been very accurate for me to 700+ but they have a very high velocity for expansion requirement and low BC (lower than published) so that limits your range. At coues altitude, they'll get to to 800 with 1800'sec and 1000# of energy. I'd use that on elk and keep it to = < 600. The Amax will expand at well below 1600'sec but will come uncorked on anything bigger than a coues, antelope and depending on the size, mulie bucks. I know if one case where a 140 amax was used on a bull elk. It was also put in the ribs. clean kills with a 140 amax on elk is the exception not the rule. While they aren't classified as a hunting bullet, some hornady reloading manuals state that the Amax is a good thin skinned, light boned animal bullet. I have shot many animals from wolves to deer (coues included!) to moose. I have never seen one fail to perform very well. Except on the moose. It's a bad news bullet regarding bigger game. While I constantly hear about various bullets not performing on game, I've never heard the word Amax and failed in the same sentence. That comment will likly invoke a comment from a frustrated Amax user but I think amax's failing to expand is a rare occurrence. Hope that helps.