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he's dang sure as much coues as that stinkin' muley from new mex that they had as the world record NT for a couple years. Lark.

i find it a little ironic that "conservation" groups want to let the elk starve. they've been doing this for about 100 years and there haven't been any real problems. must be the same guys who wanted em kill that little polar bear cub a couple years ago. Lark. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ELK...mp;SECTION=HOME

they've had far more problems with online app's than they have had with paper. several years ago they had to give out quite a few extra bighorn and i think some pronghorn and elk tags, because of a screw up with the computer outfit they were using in nevada. then they went to the hillbillies in tennessee for a couple years and it turned into a literal fiasco. i don't think they do the paper to be inconvenient. i think it's because of all the problems they've had with the online stuff. and it makes it real easy for uso and cabelas to apply a jillion or so folks for every hunt. look what happend with the cabelas app's this past winter. i for one, think that was a good thing. and it wouldn't have happened if they were able to apply online. there are a lot of folks who got tags that would have went to cabelas clients, that wouldn't have if that truck load of app's woulda made it on time. Lark.

a lot of states have a mandatory survey. no fine involved, but if you don't send it in, you can't apply the next year. Az. is real easy compared to a lot of states with a lot of their rules. but i don't see a lot of benefit from them either. heck, i had to make a 20 minute phone call in colorado to validate a dang small game permit so i could shoot some prarie dogs. you buy a license, then you have to make a phone call and with the keys, tell them what you are planning on hunting and where. if you don't, the license ain't valid. talk about some big brother BS. if Az. actually used the survey data, i'd have no problem with it. what i do have a problem with is spending a buncha money on a program that is ignored. somebody said something about the archery guys getting singled out. in my opnion, they needed to that years ago. too many guys getting a deer with a bow and then going rifle hunting. it was next to impossible to enforce the rules they had. Lark.

Amanda, i shoulda added a little to my rant. i have no problem with the survey or making it a requirement. i belive the original intent was a good thing. i do have a problem with what i percieve as the azgfd doing nothing productive with the data. the u22n example i used is a real thing. it happened. they drastically increased permits with absolutely no data to support it. the absolute refusal of the azgfd to use the data that it spends a fortune collecting is a real sore spot. the survey is just one little part. over the years the azgfd has spent a lot of money to collect info on different things and then let politics dictate what they do, instead of real live science. they let the lions kill the strip deer herd, when they had their own bioligists begging them to do something about it. they've let the elk herd explode into areas they shouldn't be in. they're letting the desert bighorns dissapear in some areas, right now, because they're afraid to do the right thing and kill some lions. it's an endless list that gets bigger every year. politics and accountants are making decisions that science needs to make. they're trying to legislate nature. or let some accountant with short sighted plans squeeze a few more nickels out of it. but once again, if the azgfd refuses to use data that they spend money collecting, then they need to just quit collecting the data and use the funds on something that might make things better. Lark.

here is one article on the 31,000 scientists who say human caused global warming is BS. read it and weep koolaid drinkers. what is real interesting, is not one newspaper carried the story. so much for thinkin' that there ain't a liberal agenda in the papers. so, what do all you globabl warming pansies say about this? there all kindsa articles on the net about it. read a little. enlighten yourselves. don't let a dumbass liar like al gore do your thinkin' for ya. Lark. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=64734

i just wanna know where that 16,000 feet o' ice went. oh yeah, and what they did with jimmy hoffa. Lark.

azgfd has been overtookened by huggers. if you don't mind, send me the email. i'd like to see it. sounds like mr. napalitano his thumbprint on this one. Lark.

don't know if you fellers recall, but there was a bunnypig that useta surf around this sight for awhile a couple years back, and i asked him how they did it. used the u22n unit as an example. this happened to be the first year that they went to the earlier draw for elk and pronghorn. the literature was avaiable within a couple weeks after the last late bull hunt in u22n, the survey cards hadn't even been sent out yet, much less had the data collected, but the azgfd somehow found it justified to double the permits on one hunt and nearly double them on the next hunt. they hadn't done any ariel suverys, had no data collected from the survey cards, nothing, but they increased the permits on the 2 hunts by several hundred tags. i hunted that unit that year with my cousin and noticed a really big buncha uso guides and clients in the area and they had a really big camp set up on the east verde.. anyway, you know me, i tweeked the guys nose a little by implying that the azgfd increased the heck outta the permits in order to get more nonres tags in the unit. now i kinda doubt that boy george has much input into how tags are allocated here, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the bean counters at the azgfd weren't thinking what i was thinking. anyway, the guy never answered me and i never saw him around here anymore. can't remember his name. but this is one of the things that really bugs me about the azgfd. they seem to want to increase the heck outta the tags that cost a lot. in other words, any nores tag and all the resident tags, except deer and turkey. anyway, i'm sorta with desertbull here. i don't see the use of the surveys when it is real plain that they don't use the data. why waste the money on the program, if they aren't going to do real research with it? it's got to be a fairly substantial sum to fund it. shroufe turned the azgfd into an accounting firm that is only interested in the bottom line. the elk herd is basically livestock. let them propogate to the point that they do real damage to the other wildlife and flora. (and they have) as long as they can sell a lotta permits. it was kinda cool for about a decade. big bulls everywhere and lots of em. now they've even hurt the elk herd. bull/cow ratios are way off. the herd is nothing like it was a few years ago. the elk have expanded into non traditional land and really hurt deer herds in those areas. we still get some big bulls each year, but no more than any other state. seems like utah shoots a lot more big bulls than we do. but they also sell a lot of their best tags to the highest bidder. i don't know the answer, but i do know that the survey ain't the answer. and i do know that ignoring data ain't the answer. Lark.

one o' my best pals had his fixed last winter. he said when he woke up from surgery he was so much better than before that he couldn't believe it. he's up to walking a couple miles a day and getting around quite well now. he's working quite a bit and doing fine. his only advise was that if you need back surgery, get it done. said it made such a difference he couldn't believe it and everyday he's better. Lark.

me niether. ever one i ever killed wasn't bein' pertected by nothin'. that i seen anyway. if they were, they didn't do a very good job. Lark.

depends on the season. deer: guttin' a deer. elk: guttin' a elk. javelina: in camp still asleep. Lark.

what do you mean you can't kill em? i've never seen a snake a 12 guage wouldn't decapitate. i hate rattle snakes. be with somebody that gets bit by one and you'll have the same attitude. Lark.

well, there ya go. now the global warmin' groupies are callin' this an attempt to legislate the weather, when it aint', and when that's what gore and the rest o' the koolaid kids are trying to do. this is 31,000 degreed scientists. folks who have real and credible educations in sciences that ar directly linked to "global" warming. not "ecologists". and if you koolaid kids would read this instead of just shoving it aside, you'd see that they agree that the earth is in a warming state. nothing like gore and his pals want you to believe, but it has warmed up a bit. what they are saying is that it is not human caused, but rather, nature at work. do you koolaid drinkers even know what the kyoto accord was? here it is in a nutshell. the U.S., great britain, germany, france and a few other countries have to tax theirselves to death to drop emissions so that china, india, all of of africa, mexico, pakistan, etc. can keep pumping smoke, sewage, trash, etc. into the environment. and we also had to give the backward polluter countries a buncha money to help em get better. the U.S's pollution compared to china or india is like comparing a toy electric car to a coal fired power plant with no emission protection. nobody is cleaner than us, but everyone wants us to fix it. even when 31,000 scientists say it ain't broke. i watched a deal this weekend about the clovis people and there were several opinions about how they got here and where they went, but the one thing that really hit me was that during the last ice age, the polar caps came down the west coast to about oregon/northern california, spread across the country through montans and northern wyoming, completely covered the great lakes and then drooped down the east coast to about new york, connnecticut, that area. AND THEY WERE OVER 16,000 FEET THICK!!!!!!!!! 16,000 feet kids. none of our big mountains stuck through the ice. and this was about 13,000 years ago. an eye blink in the history of earth. sounds to me like the planet has been warming a little for quite awhile. they also said there had been at least 20 distinct ice ages. pretty interesting stuff. the polar caps might be melting, but nothin' like they have in the past. not even close. Lark.

just a heads up, it tends to piss of the uneducated public when the forest circus and the burro of land management lights of fires in a high wind and they get away and cost the taxpayers a fortune to put out. any idiot would have known better than to light that thing when they did. stick your finger in the air. is the wind blowin'? then don't light the fire. the uneducated public calls that arson. Lark.

my grampa always said that anything wet fallin' outta the sky in Az., was a good thing. enjoy the wet. Lark.

i can't believe not one koolaid drinker has the wayvos to post on this thread. this is some real important stuff. i mean important to point of affecting generations. maybe the most important thing going on right now, in the whole world. i know they called off global warming for 10 years, just last week, and it's snowin' again in the mountains, all over the place, but crap, can't we have some re-butt-all on this? maybe the rumors about liberal media bias apply to liberal thinkers (i.e. wrong thinkers) in general? dangit. now the 4 day weekend is upon us and i gotta go have some fun outside. well, everbuddy have a good holiday and remember, if you must drink, don't drink koolaid. Lark.

just read that the whitmire fire that they lit off in se Az is over 6000 acres without much chance of slowing for awhile. guess it's a grassfire. brushfires can have some good long term effect. grassfires just burn grass. well, guess if i'm ever out of a job, i can always be a clown at the forest circus. i gotta be at least as smart as them jokers. Lark.

if you thinnk i'm gonna not taik ever chanse i git to bash the forrest circcus and the burro of land mangelement, well that's just wrong. Lark.

YEP, that's that %$@#*!in' global warmin' for ya. Lark.

heck, fire is about the same thing as weather. at least naturally occuring fire. but i sure get pissed when the anti-fire guys start the fires. i've known for over a week that high winds were on the way because the jet stream was gonna drop way down here. i guess that the forest circus and burro of land management don't get the weather channel. either that or they do and thought this might be an opportunity to burn somebody out. like the cabins at turkey flat. but that would be a conspiracy theory. and i really don't think these guys are smart enough to conspire. i think they are just too stupid to be able to add 2+2 and come up with 4. Lark.

the housing deal will take care of itself, if congress will let it. a buncha greedy sob's made up some new kinda loans that don't work out and a buncha other greedy sob's took em out. now they're all in trouble, and like always in America, they want someone to bail em out. i.e, the taxpayers. i pay my mortgage. i don't need to pay anyone elses. but these banks have all kindsa lobbiests that have their hands in the middle of congress and it is quite likely that we'll end up bailin' em out. like the savings and loan crap. that mccain was in the middle of and probly shoulda been prosecuted over. gov't ain't the answer. rollin' up your sleeves and makin' your own way is. this gas price deal is real deep. there's a lot more to it than oil companies makin' a buncha money. it pisses me off to no end, but consumption hasn't dropped off by one gallon. the price goes up everyday, and consumption does to. no way prices will go down when consumption raises. you only have to read the paper for 2 minutes to see what the goal is. $200 a barrel. who do you think puts this info out? the oil companys. whenever it levels out and prices of everything else affected and inflation finds it's true place, we won't feel it so bad. mexico pays about half what we do for gas. because that's what their economy will support. if we would just ok drilling in the U.S., everywhere, the price would go down as fast as it went up. but stupid whiney liberals won't allow it. when folks, like some of the whiners on this site, go off because they think things are bad, but have no idea why, it really yanks my chain. there is no excuse for stupidity. and voting in some jackass like obama will be something we may never recover from. i don't care why anyone doesn't like obama. even if it's just skin color, as long as they don't like him and won't vote for him, because he is a scary guy. so is mccain in a lot of ways. the illegal immigration will explode under him i'm afraid. that is about as bad a threat as islamic terrorists. i still think the clintons have a couple aces up their sleeves and are gonna pull some sorta super delegate coue at the convention. i hope they do because i wanna see the whiners come outa the woodwork on that one. Lark.

the coolest thing about this photo is that it's my cousin's husband's back, in it. he's a former army chopper pilot who flies medevac choppers now. he told me once where he was when it was taken, but i can't remember what he said. Lark.

9-11 happened because of 8 years of head-in-the-sand politics by clinton. period. so did millions of genocide deaths all over africa and eastern europe. millions died for no reason other than there last name or what side o' the street they lived on and clinton didn't even so much as pay attention to it. so did the dot com fiasco. aids ran rampant all over africa also. terrorists bombed our embassies, our military bases, apartments where soldiers lived. and on and on. north korea, pakistan and india got the bomb, with technology clinton gave em. iran began their nuke build up under clinton. where do i even stop? 9-11 happened less than a year into W's first term. it devasted out economy. it went from around 10,000 on the dow jones down to what, 2,000 or so. where is it now? over 12,000. it's a little wobbly, but it's a money makin' son of a gun if you have any brains. we have not had not 1, not 1 dang terrorist attack on American soil or an American installation, outside of the warzone since 9-11. not one. dozens, that we know about, have been thwarted. and all because W had the nuts to take the war to them and fight an offensive battle and not sit around and try to stop them here. W has done more stop aids in africa than anyone ever has. do you ever hear anything about that? our economy, contrary to what dem's want to say, is in excellent condition. his little tax cut has been even more effective than Reagan's. but all the dem's wanna do is raise taxes and re-instate capital gains taxes. gas is high, but we're still less than europe, and if our hugger controlled congress would let us drill the gulf, california and anwar, gas would drop like a lead weight. just the threat of drilling would force opec to increase production. i'm not even gonna get in hugo chavez and his effect on gas prices. north korea's nuke program is done. all it was for, was to get us to give them money to quit, but W stuck to his guns and let it fizzle on it's own. we have a pretty good relationship with pakistan and india now, so i'm not sure where to feel about that. the afghan and iraq war are a big deal. too bad we have to be there, but we do, and it's gonna get worse. because of 8 years of hand-sittin' by clinton and the fact that W ain't gonna be in office anymore. whoever isnext is gonna be a joke and listen to polls instead of doing what is right. say all you want about weapons of mass distruction. if saddam would have allowed the UN inspectors to do what they were there for, he's still be president today. even if they didn't have them, who cares, he was the biggest threat to world peace at the time. i'm real dissapointed in the illegal alien mess. that hasn't been handled well at all and it is going to get real bad soon. wait and see. nobody running has any desire for a fix other than amnesty. wait and see what that does to the economy. say what ya want about W, but with what he's had to deal with, he's done a fair job. too bad things happend the way they have, because i think we'd really be reaping some big dividends. if only clinton would have done anything, other than ride the wave that Reagan and even Bush's dad, started. we'd be in fat city. just because things are good ain't a reason to drop your guard. you can get by without maintaining your car for quit awhile, and then it will croak on ya. a country is the same way. war is rough stuff, but it is what keeps folks free. you don't stay free by negotiating with folks who say every day that they want to kill you. you stay free by killing them first. Lark.

why does the forest circus and the burro of land management bother with all them signs tellin' folks how to not start a forest fire, when they go out do this about a dozen times a year? they aint' gonna quit till they burn all the cabins on the mountain i guess. what a deal. arsonist tree pigs. Lark.