.270

go to this website. it splains fairly well what sport hunting and sport hunters are in this state. don't get into a debate about ethics and all that. the basics of hunting are quite simple. lets keep it that way. Lark. http://www.azgfd.com/

good heck, what is goin' on here? just because some peta sob or some nba jackass says that hunting and dog fighting are the same, it doesn't mean hunters have to side with vick in order to protect their sport. good night fellers. heck, what if they compared hunters to child molesters? you gonna defend baby rapin'? i can't believe folks can't see the difference. these are 2 completely different things that have absolutely nothing to do with each other and defending something that has been deemed a felony by the rule of law is absolutely no way to justify what we like to do. dang, don't get this stuff blurred. hunting an't a "bloodsport". there is some blood involved, but that ain't what it's about. be fine with me if the animals i hunted didn't even have blood or guts. just something to deal with to get em ready to eat. but come on guys, do not get on the wagon with folks who get joy from torturing and maming animals and enjoy watching them kill each other. there is absolutely no connection between our sport that that crap and if you can't see the definite seperation, and a big one at that, you oughta think about counselling. Lark.

sounds like when i said it was done to appease huggers, i was right. i still see no need for it and am really trying hard to figure out why a guy who runs dogs would want anymore restrictions. after the sabino canyon debacle and the director and the commission caved to the governor and all the screamin' huggers, i always felt that was the beginning of the end. hope i'm wrong. Lark.

he's right, it is a sport. so is serail murder, serial rape, child molesting, racial violence, wife beating, etc. shows you what kinda guy marbury is. zakly the reason i quit watchin' the nba years ago. it's more choreographed than pro rasslin'. it's a joke. one thing for sure, the falcons will have a much better team with that coach killer ball hog gone. i've spent my whole life with working dogs of one kind or another. sometimes they would fight, but it was personall to the dogs. and i never condoned it or let em keep after it. training dogs to kill each other is a sick deal. and folks that get kicks from it are sick folks. Lark.

i shoot 140 hornday interlocks. the cheap hornadys. tried some 130 interbonds. they work ok, at least as good as the interlocks, but at twice the price. they shoot all the way through elk, deer, goats, whatever, and wad up under the skin on the off side. i really like em. i shot 130 sierras for years and can't really remember why i changed. they would come apart a lot and the lead and jacket would usually be in the same place, but seperated, and killed the heck outta deer and elk. never could figure out why folks cussed that aspect of them, because they seemed to be devastating. my ol' man killed a really big 6x6 bull a couple years ago with sierra 130's, and no other bullet coulda done better. as long you don't use "el 'spode-o" hollowpoints or plastic tippers or them junky all copper bullets, anything will work and work well. it's all in the marksmanship. heart and lungshot = dead animal. Lark.

you guys need to read the reg's real good because they are sorta confusing. for instance, you can shoot lions from sept 1 till may 31, in every square foot of u27. it only has the mulitple bag limit in the bear canyon and pipestem units. from sept 1 to may 31, you can shoot a lion anywhere. the "quota" is for multiple lions. in the areas with multiple bag limits you can shoot one lion "PER DAY", until the multiple bag limit has been achieved, then it reverts to one lion per year, of which the multiple bag limit lions that were shot do not apply. so if you're good enough, hypothetically, one guy can shoot 21 lions in u27, in 21 days. i'm surprised at some of the units that don't have a multiple bag limit this year. i saw a smokin' hot lion track in u28 a couple weeks ago. fresh enough that i think i coulda found it if i'd have tried a little. and without dogs. but it was hot and i was lazy and had my ol' man with me, so i didn't. got to looking at the regs later, and from what i could read, i'da been illegal if i'da shot it. personally, i think this sept 1 to may 31 deal is stupid as heck, has absolutley no biological merit, was done only to appease huggers, is the first step in outlawing lion hunting, and whoever thought of it oughta be whupped. lions breed and have younguns year round. i think a guy should buy a lion tag when he gets his license and if he sees a lion he oughta shoot it. they're a great trophy that is vastly underhunted. Lark.

desert bull is just fulla wisecrackin' today ain't he. that's my job. what i meant to say, so you don't get confused, desert bull ya joker, is we got the tags we were lucky enough to get drrod for, but hadn't recieved the money back for the 3 sheep applincations and the 3 bison applications the we didn't get drood for. and like others, my wife is raisin' heck about it and has a ditch wore through the front lawn from checkin' the mailbox fer the money. it's sorta like she loans it to me and if it don't show up soon, she might start hittin' me with stuff till it does. when my kids were younger, application refunds were always school clothes money. once i got drood for a buncha stuff and had to sell a pickup for clothes. Lark.

if you shoot a .270 then don't worry about it. they don't drop. it's an anomaly of physics. only thing knowed to man to not be affected by gravity. that's why when you shoot a .270 you need to make sure you hit what you're shooting at. if you miss it keeps going until it hits something. i know a guy that shot hisself in the back o' the head. bullet went around the world when missed a bighorn. sad deal too.........Lark.

that lead deal is all overblowed. bullwidgeon's folks gave him a lead pacifier, put powdered lead in his pablum, painted his room with lead base paint, he had a lead trike. it didn't hurt him none. i mean he sorta looks like a javelina, but i don't think lead had anything to do with that. did it? i have a bullet in my back that's been there almost 40 years. it ever doneded nothin' to me. well except make me go to the strip search place at the airport metal detector. but that ain't all bad. Lark.

in a .270 you put any bullet in it and all the powder you want and shoot it and it will kill somethin'. that's just the way they are. Lark.

check it out. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0805gamefish0806.html

dang, you got it right. a .270 is a whole 3,000 of an inch bigger than true 7mm. which is a lot closer to 7mm than the .284 diameter, or 7.21 mm, 7mm. is that confusing? if it ain't, ya got it. i guess i don't get how calling a bullet that is actually a bit larger than 7mm, a 6.8mm, would be getting it right? we've called .277 diamter a .270 for over 80 years. why start calling 6.8mm? especially when it isn't even very close to being right. all i was trying to do was throw out some real info. i read once that when the guy that developed the .270 did it he wanted a true 7mm diameter bullet but couldn't call it that because of all the european rounds that were actually little larger. there's a lotta other stuff that's real hard to understand about bullet development too. but i'll stand by what i said. .270 bullets are actually 7mm diameter, while 7mm are actually 7.2mm. actually, i don't see where there is enough difference in the .277 and .284 bullets to even have them both. except that the .277 is better. Lark.

i really couldn't care less. Lark

glass, look for sign, maybe try to call him in. right now i'd think about every bear in the country is in the prickly pears gettin a purple tongue. Lark,

use whatever bullets you want to use. use whatever charts and numbers and other junk to justify what you want to use. you asked if anyone loaded for a .264 and i have. a bunch. in fact, more than anyone i've known. i'd bet i've put 10,000 rounds through a .264. and loaded even more than that. i bought a new one less than a year ago and it's had well over 500 through it already. my youngest son has a new sendero .264 that he's still figuring out. but i prefer lighter bullets. and they are easier on the barrel. and if you haven't burned out at least one .264 barrel, you haven't shot one much. there are few animals west of the mississippi and south of canada that haven't rolled over to one of my .264's. same goes for my .270's, .300's, .243's, etc. Lark.

we have several .264's in the house. i've been shooting one for around 40 years. i really like 100 gr bullets. H4831sc is my favorite powder. loaded in large quantities. loaded some 125 gr nosler partitions for my kid's new sendero last night. he's hoping to shoot a bear this weekend with it. personally, i wouldn't shoot anything over 129's out of a .264. it handcuffs the round too much. a .264 was made to run fast, and with even the 129's, it ain't that hot. about 3300 fps is all you can do without really running the jagged edge. nosler makes a 100 gr partition, if a guy is afraid of the bullet 'splodin'. but i've had excellent succes with 100 gr hornady interlocks. chronographed em at 3800+ fps. it you really wanna have some fun, load up some 85gr hp sierras. you can get close to 4000 fps and they will vaporize a jackrabbit. but the 140 and 165 gr bullets are pretty much useless to me. slower than tar and don't hit real well. bullet is too long, builds up too much pressure and you really need a little quicker barrel twist to stabilize em. my opinion is that if a guy needs a big bullet, he needs to get a big gun. too many folks try to make a big gun out of .264's, .270's and 7mm's. the big long bullets just don't do real well out of any of em. Lark.

why do they call it a 6.8mm? do you guys know that the .270 (.277) is actually 7mm, while the 7mm (.284) is actually a little over 7.2mm? so they oughta call the .270 a 7mm and the 7mm somethin' else. there's your math lesson for the day. Lark.

well shucks, the name "BASSpro" oughta tell a guy a little about which way their business is aimed. if you want a rapala or a boat, that's the place to go. bp, cabelas and dang sure the sportsmans outhouse, have a whole buncha not much when it comes to reloading supplies. best place in town for powder and bullets is the pistol parlor. these other places keep around a lot of the real popular calibers and weights in bullets, and seem to really keep up on what is en vogue (that's stylish to the folks from aj) but don't seem to have very much of a lot of the things i buy. we have several .264's in the house, PP is the only place in town i can find a good selection or .264 bullets. i've noticed that a lot of places don't even have a good stock of .277 and .308 diameter bullets anymore. i'm kinda sure that them are still sorta popular sizes. cabelas and basspro are a blast to knock around in and they have a lotta clothes and shoes and camping gear and new guns, but they don't do real good on the reloading stuff. i'll say this about BP, my wife broke her leg awhile back and was in a wheelchair and on crutches for awhile. we went to basspro but didn't take her chair. there wasn't one up front and they did go find one for us. Lark.

you can buy a lotta 'lectricity for $20.5 million. you can also do a helluva lot o' wildlife managament with $20.5 million. but it's sorta apparant, to me anyway, that managing wildlife ain't to high on the azgfd's list. i was just tryin' to poke a little fun at the azgfd and everbody took it all serious. Lark.

whodang, that article in the dependent don't make this thing look any better. dang, it was right in them folks' yard. ohhheeee, this is gonna be ugly. we already pay a $7.50 surcharge just to apply. how much did that raise last year? a lot more than this auction tag. a lot of folks are trying to rationalize this situation. if he woulda waited until it got into the forest, which sounds like it wouldn't have been too hard to do, we'd all be envious of a big rack. instead, it looks like this guy, and his guides, are in a lot of trouble and we're all in a boil over it. one side o' the fence or the other. seems to be pretty much polaraized. whatever the case, like i said earlier, if i had the cash, i'd be at the auciton. but then i'd be off in a canyon somewhere hunting, not in folks' yards. heck, there are elk a lot bigger than this available to shoot behind high fences, for a lot less money. and they hafta be at least as "ethical". there were a lot of ways to do this thing okay. how it happened wasn't one of em. i'm one of the guys that figures if it's legal it's ethical, because we never want anyone to try and legislate ethics. if this ends up being legal, then it's ethical. if it don't, it ain't. from what i see, it ain't gonna end up good for the guys involved. no matter what happens. Lark.

i'm pretty sure that's bullwidgeon. Lark.

we're really getting off topic, but i really want to know how things really break down. i see some numbers for the raffle for '07, but don't see anything for the auction. they're 2 different things. did i miss it? i can't get the excel file to magnify enough to read it. i want to compare '07 auction $ to what was raised just by the non-refundable application fee that comes from every application. i want to show how much average joes, us, donate, just by that process, compared to what these guys with heavy wallets pony up? how often do you get an elk or pronghorn or bighorn permit now? by my poor math, about 5% of the total bighorn permits go to auction and raffle tags. that's a fair number. and by all accounts, the desert sheep are having a real rough time right now. the auction total has a fair amount of digits in it, but it is still pretty small compared to the azgfd overall budget and again, if money fixed things we'd be run over by game and would have to shoot deer outta the yard on a daily basis. what i'm trying to get folks to think about is what is being done with the money and is it doing any good? about the only thing that seems to be doing very well in Az. right now looks to be coues deer and predators. muleys, desert bighorns, turkeys, pronghorn, are all having a rough time and it ain't all because of the drought. there has been some real crummy management involved in a lot of it. the elk cow/bull ratio looks to me to be real wierd right now. and from what i've seen, the elk herd in general doesn't seem to be real shiny. nothing like it was even 5 years ago. and the big explosion in the elk herd had a direct effect on the deer herd, mainly muleys, in the area where there are a lot of elk. so now they both seem to be struggling. i know that auction money isn't just dumped into the azgfd'd general or capital fund for the year, but i do know that the auction money frees up funds for other things that may or not be tied to conservation. like i said, i'm about 50/50 on whether or not gauranteed rich guys tags, which is what the auction tags are, do as much as some folks would have us believe. and i'm sorta thinking that this particular auction tag we're talking about is going to cause us all a lot of problems because a few folks maybe didn't do a real good job. how much is it going to cost the azgfd to litigate this? if they push it very far it will be substantial. i bought a powerball ticket today. if i win it, i will be at the auction and i will come away with some tags. and i wouldn't do it because i think the money is going to do a bunch of good. i'd do it because i could and i like to hunt. there's a lot to think about here other than $'s. the biggest problem we have is a top heavy game department that looks more at the bottom line than they do at herd health. does more money help that? it sure doesn't appear to me to help much. but i ain't totally convinced that auciton tags are all bad. but i'm having a harder time, all the time, even staying balanced on the fence. maybe i just think too deep for some folks. Lark.

while we're on the subject, just how much money was raised, this year, by auction tags? not the raffle tags either. just the auction. and for the record, i'm all for the raffle. but i hover around 50/50 on the auction stuff. if all it took was money to fix things, our desert bighorn numbers wouldn't be tanking like they are. and they are dropping at a scarey rate. money does nothing with poor direction. and i think we can all pretty much agree that the azgfd seems to be like the lost tribe o' the f*&^arewees when it comes to having some direction. there ain't enough room or time to list all the stupidity that has happened there even in just the past year or so. and like i said before, if it comes down to a tapemeasure to decide if these guys were legal, then they shoulda went somewhere else. guys can say that the folks that lived there shouldn't be there and they shouldn't be upset over it, but they do live there and apparantly more than one of em are real yanked. heck, i'd be yanked if i lived there. for pete's sake, go hunt someplace besides in folks' yards, no matter what. dang, have a little sense about things. was the "hunter" the same old buzzard who shot the monster with these guys a couple years ago? i know he's bought a bunch of the auction tags. anybody know? if it is, i see why they were there, he can't go anywhere else. i'll make this surmise, i would be real surprised if all the auction tags each year brought in even half of what the application fees paid by all the other regular joes pay collectively each year. somebody should be able to find the number out pretty easy. seems like there are over 200,000 applications each year. this year it was $7.50 to apply. ain't that like $1.5g? (g means giga which is latin for a million). i ain't for sure, but i don't think the auction tags bring in that much a year. and even if they do, it ain't a lot compared to the annual budget. it may be a percent or 2, but no more. and like i said, what are they doing with it and when are we gonna see some results? i've never heard anything really bad, at least that can be substantiated, about the guides. but in this case, they may not be guilty of breaking any laws, but they are guilty as heck of some real bad judgement and have done the regular joe's, in Az. in particular, and everywhere in generel, a real diservice. i wasn't there, ain't for sure what happened, but it's pretty easy to see that there was a error in judgement. Lark.

sounds like a lot of hairsplittin' goin' on here. anytime it comes down to a tape measure to decide if you were being legal or not, a guy might shoulda been somewhere else. don't know anyone involved. don't even care, but huntin' in a subdivision fulla folks just doesn't seem like huntin' to me. there's big bulls in other places that are a lot more like real huntin'. as far as the auction tags, i don't much care for em. they raise some money, but how much good does it do? in the big scheme of things, the money they get from the auction tags isn't a real big piece o' the whole pie. it's gonna be interesting to see how it finally burns out. anytime lawyers hafta get involved, it ain't good for anything. Lark.

he's probably the same jerk that couldn't catch all them guys climbing out of the van on the video that was on here awhile back. while he was hasslin' a born in the USA resident there probably about 19 illegals snuck in behind him. too dang bad when a tax payer gets hassled worse than criminals. Lark.