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it ain't up the warden. laws are quite specific. whoever the warden is is a liar and a jerk. Az. has about the most liberal firearm laws in the country. one of the main reasons to live here. and i ain't some 2nd ammendment crazy either. but hunting rules don't supercede the constitution. a guy can always say he has it there for self defense. when was this? i know a couple years ago there was a big push by the game and fish to stop what they figured was road hunting. i have feelings both ways about it. folks should get out and hunt, if they can. but seeing something from the road shouldn't make it illegal to shoot it. step out of the road, like the law says. i get real yanked off at the truck loads of losers during the early bow season or guys quail hunting from the back of a pickup. write those gusy up. but they were giving folks tickets for having guns in their gunracks and while riding 4 wheelers and stuff. i know a couple guys that got busted and they both prevailed. in fact one of had the game warden come to his house and beg him to give him back the ticket. the guys bro in law is a pretty sharp attorney and they were planning a civil rights lawsuit. anyway, he didn't pay a fine and if i ain't mistaken, even got a little $$$ out the azgfd for fees. it just flat isn't against the law to transport a firearm, and that's what this guy is telling you. the way the state law is written, you aren't considered hunting until you shoot at an animal. from what i've been told, it is this way purposely so that there is a hard definition of what is considered to be hunting so that there is a way other than a warden's interpretation to decide guilt. i'm still gonna pack by rifle in my gunrack. Lark.

standman, you say you have to have a gun or bow in a case in your vehicle? but in the white mt's it just has to be unloaded? there is no law in Az. about having a loaded gun in a vehicle in a case or not, except for the concealed weapon deal, period. and a pistol in a holster or any other case cannot be considered concealed anywhere in your vehicle. you can have one in the chamber and the safety off. not a wise thing to do, but it is legal. you can pack your rifle in a gunrack, laying in the seat, drag it from the bumper. whatever you want to do. you can't drive around with the barrel poking out the window or ride around in the back of a truck with your bow or rifle ready for action. but if a warden is telling you have to have your gun in a case and unloaded, he's a liar. some years back there was a new law that was very vague and the way it was written, it was basically against the law to leave your house with a weapon. only way you could hunt was to leave your house on foot or a horse, the way it was written. extremely vague and extremely broad. don't know if it is in the book anymore or not. there were some folks cited for riding quads with rifles and the azgfd got it packed in a painful place. in arizona you can pack a gun just about anyplace, as long it isn't concealed and as long as the place doesn't have a rule against it. i.e. a bank or bar or any private establishment that doesn't allow it. it's a constitutional right, called the 2nd ammendment. and Az., so far, hasn't been one of the states that have written laws contrary to it. you can even carry a concealed weapon with a permit. whoever told you this is really wrong and could be in for heck if they try to enforce homemade laws. so far, luckily, Az. has left carrying up to the discretion of the citizen. as long as you're not stupid about what you're doing and aren't threatening anyone, it's pretty hard to break the law here. if you're out spotlighting and have a rifle, you can pretty much plan on getting your gun confiscated. even tho it is perfectly legal. you can go to the JP and get it back, but it will be a hassle. refer back to the stupid deal. as long as you're behaving in a non-menacing way, not hanging a gun out the window, threatening anyone, etc., you can do pretty much what you want in Az. like i said, just don't be stupid. but if wardens really told you this, they aren't telling you the whole story. i ain't a lawyer, but i know what you can and can't do in this state, and what you're saying is contrary to what the law is. Lark.

sounds like casey got up on the wrong side maybe. i didn't see where Az. guide said anything derogatory about anyone. just voicing his opinion. worst thing that happens when ya shoot something is ya get all excited. after you get yourself all collected and get ready to look for it, everything looks different. the sun is a little higher usually, you can't decide which way exactly it went. did it go above or below that buncha oakbrush? main thing is to mark where something went and calm down. if you go walk around in the wrong place for just a few minutes, you might be trompin' out sign. i feel almost as sorry for the guy that lost the bear as i do the poor bear. makes a guy sick. get higher than a kite from shootin' a bear and then lose it. bad situation. and bears are a completely different animal to track than any other animal. they think too much. they hide. a deer or elk will usually run till it dies and falls wherever it's blood runs out. an bear will brush up in a thick place. anyway, hunt hard fellers. Lark.

do you still have to pay off everybody and their cousin, like you used to? i've only crossed the border, on land, once in the last 30 years. just walked over to nogey waiting for a highschool football game to start. bought a sombrero and a sarape' and drank a couple o' them good mexican cokes that still have real sugar in em. last time before that was in the 70's. had to pay off about 15 guys to get a mexican drivers license, insurance and tourtista sticker. than had to pay off the federalies out side o' town aways at some check point. dang, a guy needed a whole fist fulla dollar bills. at the checkpoint we didn't have enough singles so they made change. pretty bad when they'll make change on a bribe. anyway, sounds like too much work for me to go hunt down there. sounds like gates' guide really let him down too. Lark.

treestand, i've been on dozens of bear kills. rifle, pistol, muzzleloader and archery. sometimes they pile up quick, sometimes they don't. if they don't, you might be in for some work. in the fall, when you usually hunt bears, they are quite fat and getting fatter, to sleep the winter out. you can blow a heck of a hole in one and it still may not bleed long because fat will plug it up. plus they have real long hair that can trap a lot of blood, especially after it starts to dry a little. they just don't drop blood all over like a deer or an elk that has been hit good. they won't go any farther than any other animal hit in a similar place, but their trail will be much harder to find. they don't leave very distinct tracks like a deer or elk either. their feet are real soft and if there are a lot of leaves or pine needles, almost impossible to track, with no blood trail. you were fortunate that your bear croaked quick. they will usually always find a thick place to lay down and die too. if you ever do shoot a bear, my advice is to stay right after it. don't use the wait 30 minute rule. watch him go down if you can. shoot him again if you can. i've seen bears treed by hounds and heart shot that didn't drop much blood. the fat and hair plugs up the hole. be aware of where he runs, i mean exactly where he runs, so you can look for sign. they can be a "bear" to track. Lark.

so it's legal, if you can stand the smell, i guess. thanks for the info. you guys ever kill a bear that's been feedin' on a dead animal? oooooeeeee, you're in for a rude awakening when ya start to take care of it. yuuuuuuuuk. Lark.

i know don lewis and he is a good friend. he got screwed over just like so many other guys that have spent their lives establishing a reputation, just to be drug down by those jealous sob's that can't keep up, and by those that have to perpetuate the rumors and lies. Lark.

i mean an animal that a bear has killed.

if you put out bait, whatever kind for whatever animal, and a bear comes in, did you break the law? or is it only illegal if you shoot one? i ain't tryin' to be cute, just wondering. i know that for years the only thing you could legally bait was a bear during the baiting season. now, from what i've heard, you can bait anything but bears, in Az. can you sit on a kill and wait for a bear to come in? enquiring minds want to know. Lark.

so, did they get their racks back or are they still fighting this deal? man, that one buck was a thug. they were both nice, but the one was really big. anytime i see "lacey act", it spooks me. there ain't no end to what they can charge ya with once that gets started. but it also seems like if you fight it long enough, they sorta give up. as in "operation navajo buck". they busted one o' the klumps some years back and the last i heard they just sorta forgot about him because he just refused to talk or deal anymore. he had jaguars, margays, ocelots, poached bighorns and all kindsa stuff. i think it's a shame to pound on someone who wasn't intending to break a law. ok, fine the guy so he don't forget next year, but this felony crap is too wierd. brings back all them bad memories of chain gangs and mean wardens hollerin', "what we have here is a failure to communicate". by the way, who was the outfitter? was the outfitter and the guide the same outfit? Lark.

no opinion here. just trying to form one. from what i gathered from the article, the troubles started when the mexicans changed the rules and for whatever reason, gates and his friend were ignorant of it. can't really see where the lacey act stuff even applies. it ain't like they tried to decieve anyone. it wasn't an endangered species. it appears they tried to satisfy all the rules. i mean it's pretty apparent that someone (either the feds or the mexicans) feels they broke the law, but i sure don't see any intent to break the law. looks to me like if the mexicans were serious about bringing american $$$ down there they would devise a plan that was a lot less confusing than what they have now. man, i got a headache just reading what i read last night. can't imagine what it'd be like to actually have to try and get all the "papers" that you have to get to shoot a deer and bring it back. also sounds like whoever his outfitter was really screwed em over too. and the feds? who the heck knows what those guys are thinking. they purposely draft laws and policy that are so confusing that no one but them can explain it. they also have a lot of rules that crossover each other some and that really muddies things up. like i say, don't have a real desire to hunt in mexico or fish anywhere but in the ocean. heard too many horror stories about it. just wondering what really happened. the article was sorta vague it seemed. Lark.

does anybody make a trail camera that has a sattlelite uplink so i can sit at home and watch it on the tv? all that walkin' back and gettin' the camera and then goin' back again and again is too much work for us lazy guys. they need to have a channel on the dish network that is all trail cameras, all the time. i think i'm gonna set one up by the moon valley nudist camp. Lark.

25-06, it's like the old sayin' about rasslin' with a pig. after awhile, if you ain't too dumb, you realize the pig likes it. adhd and lopemule ain't figgerd that out yet. Lark.

many years ago when 3-wheelers were the deal, i was doing my best to bowhunt deer in the woods. sneakin' along slow, wind in my face, in a good area. started hearing an odd noise and after awhile, saw a bush puttin' toward me. some guy had tied limbs and junk all over his noisy, smokin' 3-wheeler and was puttin' over logs and around trees and stuff. he bounced right by me and never even saw me. felt like bluntin' him. had his bow up on a rack where he could get to it real easy. what a joke. what got me is that it looked like he was gettin' the heck beat out o' him on that no suspension junker. quads have there place. like in camp until you need some help tuggin' an elk out. or to run up a real rough road early in the morning and then hunt from there or something. they don't do a lot of damage to terrain in most cases, but it ain't huntin' and it is plum lazy to try and hunt from one. i agree with the shoe leather way of thinkin'. until i get too old to move, then maybe i'll get a quad. Lark.

never mind, i was thinking of the depredation hunts. can't think of more than about 1 thing at a time anymore. sorry, Lark.

has anyone here ever been called for one o' these? we applied awhile back, but none of our bunch has had their number dialed. how does it work, excatly? does the warden go with you and tell you what to shoot? just wonderin', Lark.

did somebody say somethin' or was is just a huge suckin' sound? blah blah blah blah blah..................... guess you're the kinda guy that thinks everyones opinion's are fine as long as they're the same as yours. so you're guessin' i'm Kirt? that's funny, tell me another one. 10,000 comedians outta work and you're tellin' jokes for free. next time i talk to him i'll tell him that. he'll get a laugh out of it too. related? nope, wrong again, dueling banjo picker. but i'm guessin' you're real closely related your family. close friend? nah, good friend maybe. seldom see him. the only person i have to convince is me. and i did that years ago. i get along with myself pretty well too. you oughta try it. and i ain't "claimin'" nothin'. it's the truth. something you have a hard time with. like you have a hard time with science, photos, first hand testimony, etc. live in stupidity. go ahead. i-don't-care. look at your "mounts" and tell yourself how smart ya are. "educated scientist"!?! that's a hoot. surveyors are scientists? probly rich, 10 feet tall, good lookin' and bullet proof too. this ain't worth the effort. see ya'll in the funny papers....... Lark, aka Kirt Darner..........

crap, you mean i gotta drop outta the NRA now? i will if they keep this up. Lark.

well, Kirt ain't my hero. he ain't a god to me. never was. i've never even bought or read one o' his books. i have my own way of hunting that works real well. and why do you keep saying he "sold out"? don't understand that one. you think because he was raised up poor that he's a sell out? so he made some money of a marketable skill. who cares? sounds like a lotta jealousy goin' on here to me. he's a guy i know and converse with on occasion. but he did get screwed over by b&c. no 2 ways about it. you believe whatever kinda BS you want. i'll believe facts. and i'll say it again. the man who is the man with c-14, and i might add that he knows a lot more about this stuff than we do, says no way Kirt's buck came from the 40's and that it died in the 70's. Duard Sanford, who is the last guy listed as the rack in questions owner and a man i knew well, told me the rack had been smashed and repaired. Kirt's hasn't. and Kirt has photos of his deer. the 2 bucks are real similar, but they aren't the same. how did it get wider and grow more points? 'splain that one. and i refuse to believe that the child molester that started all this crap did it because he was a good citizen. he did it because he was jealous and a lousy hunter that couldn't shoot anything without a guide. you guys seem to want to inject a buncha rumor and inuendo about other situations into this. go ahead. i'm talking about one deer. nothing else. and i'll say it again, if it went to court, who would win? which direction does the evidence lean? take all your loyal friend crap and flush it. the b&c is a rich boy's country club that has a history of harming folks that won't march to their drum. all they have to do is cause a little doubt somewhere and a guy gets ruined. when their book is full of bogus garbage shot by the worst examples of "sportsmen" there is. screw em. so sit around and look at all your mounts and plan your next taxidermy bill. i'll just keep stackin' racks in the barn and fillin' my freezer. and knowin' that Kirt's buck is his. Lark.

i dunno if the pictures are real or not. don't even care. but there is some real wild opinions on how lions hunt on the jesse deal. one thing i've learned over the years is that there ain't no tellin' what a lion will do. there's definitely something bogus with at least one photo tho, because one of em shows a doe and one shows a cow elk. Lark.

breeze, maybe it's because you guys are gettin' too good at gettin' them bears. poor bears. next year you'll have to hunt with one arm tied behind your back and with a bow. hahaha. unless you're a nonresident, i think the nonresident, uso guided season is gonna be longer. hope ya know i'm bein' fecescious, and the root word of fecescious is feces, so figger it out. seems like every year they hafta change something to lessen the hunters odds. the deal with the "summer" turkey hunt burns me. used to be the spring turkey hunt started the first weekend in april and lasted nearly the whole month. what a great time to be in the woods. then the forest circus complained that turkey hunters were tearing up muddy roads and the azgfd moved the season back a month. the turkeys didn't comply. they're still done struttin' by the time the season starts. now it's shotgun only, which is ok because a guy oughta call em that time o' year anyway. but the reason it's shotgun only is to even lessen the hunters odds because the turkey population keeps going down. but the reason the turkey herd is shrinkin' is because there are too dang many varmints. 'specially coyotes. they just tear them little pullets up, and the coati mundis are moving into the high country and getting the eggs outta the nests before they even get a chance to hatch. dang, what a deal. Lark.

quimby, how far south do whitetail go? all the way to cape horn? i'd never given much thought south american deer. but all the sudden i'm sorta interested. how far south do muleys go? i've never heard of them being farther down than west-central mexico. is there another subspecies of muley, i wonder? sorta like the blacktail and sitka, maybe? i watched a deal on PBS awhile back about the "Sky Islands" of southern Az. and northern mexico. it explained a lot about why things are the way they are. real interesting stuff about how different mt. ranges in the southwest have slightly different wildlife, especially ampibians, fish, rodents, and birds with only short flight capability. i've always felt that the different ranges had sorta their own unique breed of coues, and the tv show explained why maybe that is right. i'm thinking maybe the bradshaws are about the furthest east that coues go, for whatever reason, and they are always gonna be in short supply, just because. Lark.

quimby, how far south do whitetail go? all the way to cape horn? i'd never given much thought south american deer. but all the sudden i'm sorta interested. how far south do muleys go? i've never heard of them being farther down than west-central mexico. is there another subspecies of muley, i wonder? sorta like the blacktail and sitka, maybe? i watched a deal on PBS awhile back about the "Sky Islands" of southern Az. and northern mexico. it explained a lot about why things are the way they are. real interesting stuff about how different mt. ranges in the southwest have slightly different wildlife, especially ampibians, fish, rodents, and birds with only short flight capability. i've always felt that the different ranges had sorta their own unique breed of coues, and the tv show explained why maybe that is right. i'm thinking maybe the bradshaws are about the furthest east that coues go, for whatever reason, and they are always gonna be in short supply, just because. Lark.

quimby, how far south do whitetail go? all the way to cape horn? i'd never given much thought south american deer. but all the sudden i'm sorta interested. how far south do muleys go? i've never heard of them being farther down than west-central mexico. is there another subspecies of muley, i wonder? sorta like the blacktail and sitka, maybe? i watched a deal on PBS awhile back about the "Sky Islands" of southern Az. and northern mexico. it explained a lot about why things are the way they are. real interesting stuff about how different mt. ranges in the southwest have slightly different wildlife, especially ampibians, fish, rodents, and birds with only short flight capability. i've always felt that the different ranges had sorta their own unique breed of coues, and the tv show explained why maybe that is right. i'm thinking maybe the bradshaws are about the furthest east that coues go, for whatever reason, and they are always gonna be in short supply, just because. Lark.

quimby, how far south do whitetail go? all the way to cape horn? i'd never given much thought south american deer. but all the sudden i'm sorta interested. how far south do muleys go? i've never heard of them being farther down than west-central mexico. is there another subspecies of muley, i wonder? sorta like the blacktail and sitka, maybe? i watched a deal on PBS awhile back about the "Sky Islands" of southern Az. and northern mexico. it explained a lot about why things are the way they are. real interesting stuff about how different mt. ranges in the southwest have slightly different wildlife, especially ampibians, fish, rodents, and birds with only short flight capability. i've always felt that the different ranges had sorta their own unique breed of coues, and the tv show explained why maybe that is right. i'm thinking maybe the bradshaws are about the furthest east that coues go, for whatever reason, and they are always gonna be in short supply, just because. Lark.