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yeah we do want the facts and truth. the very things you keep ignoring in your posts. i know you think everyone is too stupid to know how much "good" you're gonna do us so there is no need tell us. we just wouldn't understand it anyway. being condescending ain't a real good way to win friends and influence people. and that's where you've stooped to now. and you sure haven't come up with a good reason to try to backdoor this deal. oh yeah, you were hiding it from treehuggers. i forgot. you already knew all the sportsmen and the azgfd would support it anyway. no need to even tell them until it's done and you have your tags. they are too stupid to understand how much "good" you are doing anyway. one thing that really has me wondering is why you never approached the azgfd about it? seems like they feel stabbed in the back too. turf is a real thing. it's quite apparant by the commission's comments that you invaded their turf by trying to do an end around through the backdoor of the capitol. and from reading what the vast majority of folks here seem to think, you stepped on their turf too. tried to take a buncha premium tags away from them and give them to folks that can afford anything. that is all this is about. just about anything you guys coulda done to raise money for conservation would have been met favorably. but you tried to take premium permits as your payment. i don't think it's gonna work. i sure hope it doesn't. one more time, why did you try the backdoor right off? why were you so clandestine and sneaky? why did you hide it from the those that would be most affected by this fiasco? sorta reminds me of the way weasels, snakes and skunks operate. i don't know this weiers guy or much about him. but the reason we have elections on a regular basis and not too far apart is so when politicians support things that aren't popular with the voters they can be removed from office. and he needs to know in real plain terms that this ain't a real good thing to support and that maybe he oughta wash off the residue that is left by this bill and it's pushers. and if he wants to get re-elected he best listen to those voters. Lark.

I don't know if the fact he is the only one that would work with you is a good thing. Might be a good reason other folks wouldn't. Lark.

he dang sure needs to know how folks feel. this bill and anything like it needs killed head cut off, graveyard dead so it doesn't come back as a rider on another one or some other underhanded deal. i really have a hard time with the fact that so called sportsmen tried to do this to everyone of us other sportsmen. i'm thinkin' bonuspointjohn needs to sign up for dancin' with the stars or do you think you can dance. he won't even need a partner. he can just dance around the isssues. Lark.

they're lookin' out for some of em. the ones who's names start with $. Lark.

so you pretty much admit you tried to pull a fast but you tried the backdoor to hide it from the huggers? interesting. if this is such a wonderful deal for all sportsman, why did you intentionally hide it from them? don't want their support? don't think they can be of help? they too stupid to understand the complexities of such a wonderful thing? they need someone to make their decisions for them because they are so ignorant of what is really good? taking premium permits away from folks who's only avenue to ever get a premium permit is through the public draw and basically handing those permits over to guys who can buy anything they want, anywhere, anytime, ain't a real good way to get joe sportsman on your side. doesn't really matter how much "good" you say it will do. this is a program to do exactly that. and you say it in so few sentences. you want "us" to hand over permits that "we" have a chance to get, to "them", that can go anywhere and do anything they want. and you justify it with a few lines about all the private land you're gonna open up and all the conservation things you are gonna do and this and that, but you have very few real details. everything is so vague. nothing anyone can really get any definition from. i've been in on a lot of business plans over the years and they require a lotta detail, volumes, in order to justify and get the money needed. programs that are a lot smaller than this. you're saying it will raise millions? and you want that opportunity based on a some real vague info? none of this says much to me. other than someone is trying to pull a fast one. you say Az is 17% private. and about 75% of that private land is urban. open country in Az that is where sportsmen would like to be is small single digits of thec percentage of Az open country. like the old saying, there are lies, d a m n lies and then there are statistics. you can make statistics say anything you want. i can use yours to prove my case and use yours to prove you're wrong. this program will benefit a few rich guys and whatever posse they hire to sit on an animal until they can get away from other things to come and shoot it. and whatever "good" you say it will do outside of that, will be miniscule at best. Lark

here's a question i'd like answered. if this is such a wonderful thing and has so many important ramifications that us mere morons can't understand, why did you try to backdoor it? answer that with a straight face. and if you can't find public land to hunt on in Az, you're real lazy. i don't buy that "reason" one bit. south of phx you have horrible desert with little game, indian reservations and drug corridors. southeast Az has some private land issues, but they are what they are and a guy who is willing to work won't have much problem finding a place to hunt. this thing smells a lot like george taulman and uso all over again. take away tags from "us" to give to "them" only this time under the disguise of conservation. if there are so many guys with so much money willing to lay cash down for a tag, why don't these benevolent sportsmen just donate it? Lark.

to me the real issue is taking even more permits away from "us" and giving them to someone with a buncha $$$$$. i've been applying for bighorn for nearly 40 years. if this happens, the odds of me ever getting a permit goes down. might be just a little bit as far as percentages, but they are so low now it's not very likely i'll ever get drawn. and i'm just one guy. there's a buncha folks in the same boat. you can argue all you want about how much "good" it will do. money doesn't fix things. smart folks do. anything cooked up in a backroom and brought in through the backdoor has a lotta ingredients that most folks won't like and a lotta unknown consequences that folks won't like. sounds sorta like meth to me. folks don't try stuff like this unless there is another motive. and i never said all outfitters were in on it. i don't care what anyone says, i'd bet there were some involved. this is a rotten deal for joe sportsman. i can't believe any sportsman organization would try to do this to it's members. we've seen what happened to utah. no reason to think it won't happen here. i couldn't care less if i never saw another photo of an auction tag hunter, i mean shooter, again. if these jokers woulda been upfront about it, they might have had a chance, but i kinda doubt it. too much BS in this deal for sure. Lark.

first of all, the broncos play saturday. what are the squeelers gonna be doin'? maybe rustin'? anymore my favorite team is whoever is playin' the piggsburg squeelers. Lark.

"The AZSFW has done more to benefit hunters than any other group in this state. Your commission is protected for years into the future when we have a democrat as governor. The $3.5 million dollars from the legislature 5 years ago when times were good is only because of their efforts. Please, let's acknowledge some of the good things that have happened." the above comment is pure, total, green, runny bull$h!t. the group in this state that has provided more funds, volunteered more hours, done more work and more good is the group that joe sportsman belongs too. the rank and file of Arizona hunters. every so called conservation group piled together x 10 hasn't done as much. so take that comment and go someplace else. the silence by the outfitters on this site about this deal is deafening. same as it was when uso was trying to pull their tricks. wonder why? i can imagine why. a bunch of em are in on it. just like they were with the uso deal. this deal would benefit a few wealthy, well connected folks and not much else. the similarities between the two ploys are very interesting to say the least. glad the commission grew a pair and turned it down. it'll be back in awhile tho. with different clothes on, but it will be the same sorry rat that this is. Lark.

i heard they accidently called the cops when they were trying to order pizza. Lark.

fertilizer from coal? what'll they think of next? do they burn it to extract what they need or what? i thought you were talking about oil. oh well, live and learn. Lark.

state law allows you to kill one per day in many areas. and there are places that it is entirely possible for a good houndman to do it. head to the strip. that place has about as many lions as it does cedar trees. i saw a trailcam photo that had 8 lions in one photo the other day. and what is wrong with us shooting every one we see? it ain't hurt the herd so far. even with what seems like a really big buncha folks seeing lions these days, even if they shot everyone it wouldn't hurt them sneaky suckers too much. you caught a really nice lion. come over here and catch some. Lark.

i've been around a power plant or 40. picked up a little experience with em. i guess they just as well shut down all them coal burners then it sounds like. last i knew ngs put out 2250 mgw at full load. did they curtail it? Lark.

i am part owner, as a taxpayer, of a buncha wolf/dog crosses. Lark.

oil based fertilizer? don't think so. that's another ruse that the huggers like to use. here is a site you should check out. http://depletedcranium.com/once-again-fertilizer-is-not-petroleum-based/ fertilizer is mostly mined, but it ain't made outta oil. potasium, nitrates, stuff like that. potash is another big ingredient in a lot of it too. but it ain't petroleum based. potash might be a byproduct of pertroleum burning tho. Az has somewhere around 6-7000 mgw of coal fired electricity right now. i don't think coal is ever going to be a big minority. coal units are generally base load units. that means they run WFO all the time. the little gas burners are used to take up the slack. most of em don't run much in the winter time in Az, because there isn't a need for the power. they run like a sonofagun in the summer. mgw hours of coal fired electricity in Az is way more than gas. they have built a buncha gas burners in the past few years, but they just aren't real big units. most of them are gas turbines, which is a stationary jet engine that spins a generator. some of the them are combined cycles, where they take the exhaust gas from a gas turbine and use it to heat up a little boiler and then use the steam to spin a little generator. they have built some gas fired steam units recently too, but not a bunch. gas turbines and combined cycle units are real popular. if the treehuggers get their way and they make em shut down Navajo, you will see a rash of gas burners for sure then. copper is what most of us think about when we think of mines in Az. and they are a big money maker. be nice if we didn't need em, but we do. Lark.

be a long time before the gas burners take over and almost everything from palo verde goes to californy. besides, the fuel in palo verde comes from mines too. Lark.

get an Az map and put a red mark on every working mine, and you can even put one on the ones that are no longer in operation. they don't take up much space. they do devistate the immediate area the occupy. but they don't occupy that much. figure in the literal billion$ they bring into this state every year, they ain't such a bad deal. they are quite ugly, but they sure support a lot o' folks. most of the power in this state comes from coal that comes from a coal mine, too. Lark.

if you're willing to work hard, there are lotsa place in Az that noooooobody hunts. you just hafta be rugged enough to get there. good luck. Lark.

first off, that's a big ol' tom. but why do you new mexicans keep hollerin' at us Az guys because we feel like we have a lotta lions? and 100 square kilometers is a place about 6 miles x 6 miles. a little over that actually, but a lot less than 7x7. 3 to 4 lions seems like quite a few in a 6x6 mile square. a survey done on the ladder ranch in new mexico doesn't have a lotta bearing on what we have in Az. just the fact it was done on the ladder makes me look at the "facts" sorta skepticaly. but that is big ol' tom. now bring them mutts over here and sniff some up on dry ground. you can shoot one a day in most areas. Lark.

it was most likely some type of cowdog. at least a couple of the original "wolves" that were used to breed this thing they have now, were pets on ranches and were part domestic dog. it has been a long time, but it really seems that they only had 2 animals that were known to be pure wolf and at least one of them was extremely old. there were several articles in the newspapers a few years ago where the wolfers actually blamed the dog dna that was showing up on folks releasing hybrid wolf/dog crosses in the wild and they had bred with the "wolves". and they talked like there were a bunch of em released too. i've never even known anyonw who had a hybrid. but all the sudden a bunch of em got released and got hung up with these things? good story i guess. i don't believe it. if you really want to figure out what is going on this wold deal for yourself, go back to the beginning. do some research and find it. this started probably close to 30 years ago. the original seed was planted by folks with an agenda, they got the endangered species folks and and the usfw and a few other feds to get on board with them and then it took off. the "wolves" were bred in captivity up north. seems like wisconsin or minnesota. maybe even michigan. and under some real suspicious terms. one thing that stuck out to me was that wherever it was, at the time, there were a lot of outfits in the same general area that were advertising hybrid wolves for sale as pets. go figger. when i got into it enough to prove to myself it was just a big lie there weren't any computers and stuff to search with. it oughta be real easy now. so get after it and make an informed decision. don't believe anything anyone tells you and convince yourself one way or the other. quit all the finger pointing and figure it out. like the x files, the truth is out there. now go find it. Lark.

the best thing about this state is that it has an abundance of public land. sit and think about what it'd be like it we didn't have all this public land. go to east new mexico, texas, east colorado, anywhere in kansas or nebraska and look for some public land to hunt on. it's a pain to have a stalk screwed up by other hunters on public land, but it's a good problem to have. Lark.

i know my eyes ain't what they used to be, but in that last photo, is it a cute young lass with a whitetail buck and a javelina lookin' over her shoulder? Lark.

when they started this mexican "wolf" program, they were considered extinct, and had been for years. there were a couple around that they thought could be pure wolf and some others they knew were part dog. some were pets on ranches and some were in zoos and other places, on both sides of the border. there were only a handfull of them. they rounded up what they could and started breeding whatever this thing is they have now. in the original stuff they put out, if you knew where to look, it said they were all part dog. that's why they get parvo and other diseases that wild wolves are resistent to. my daughter did a research paper on the mexican gray wolf when she was in college. an azgfd biologist provided her with info for the paper that said they were all part dog. i've cornered a couple different wolfers and they eventually admitted they were part dog because i had the info to prove em liars if they didn't. but they countered with they were enough wolf that the dog part didn't matter. i wouldn't doubt if they have bred gray wolves or timber wolves into em. don't know it, but it would not surprise me. there are so many lies in this whole deal that i don't think you can believe anything that is printed in favor of it. they have to be inbred as heck too. inbreeding any animal will really mess em up too. hip displasia is real common. some of em might end up crosseyed and with a big overbite too, they call em dorkwolves. we can argue till the cows come home about it, but if they were pure wolf the wouldn't have to innoculate em all for dog diseases. from what i have gathered, they have to round up all the pups as soon as they are born and give em shots. this wolf deal is a stupid joke. if they were real wolves they would have taken over like the real wolves they turned loose in yellowstone have, by now too. Lark.

small sand and gravel outfits empoyee more than 40 people. Lark.

i've taken many limits of blues up there. shot a bunch of em around terry flat too. don't know what the fire did, but i would think it put a hurtin' on the grouse. i know this much, if you're gonna hunt grouse, stay on the north side of the ridges, knobs and knolls. that's where they live. i've seen them on the north side of every place i ever hunted, and that is about every place in u1 and 27. they are really drought affected and the numbers go way up and way down with the wet weather. i would have to think it might be awhile before the herd will come back after this fire. best gun is a .410 repeater. use 8 shot in a really mild shell. they ain't real smart after you find em and a 12 or 20 will really tear em up because they don't run off. i've shot a lot of em after backing up so i didn't hammer em so hard because they won't run off. in colorado you can shoot em with a .22. if it was legal here, that's what i'd use. Lark.