BeardownAZ

With exception of houses, property and the tall pines being burned, I think it will all be for the better despite it being hard to see right now. It seems most areas comeback better than they where before the fire. Just gotta give it a few years to get rain and some grass and shrubs growing again. Animal wise, things will be good again.

Maybe thats why they(environuts) dont want the timber salvaged?? No camping keeps people out of the forest longer, which they love. Theres no way to know yet what will be open and when, even based on things learned from the Rodeo fire. I am sure these 2 are very similar but very different and the monsoons will probably have a big role to play in that. Pictures show alot more green areas and back burn areas than I thought there would be so that seems to be a little promising. But those IR maps seemed to show the area down in 27 to be pretty bad in a few choice spots. Why is it closed to camping to begin with after these fires and why for so long?? Public safety has to be my guess.

Nice slide show! I was picturing nuclear holocaust everywhere not just some parts. Considering how big it is, the fact that there is still alot of green is promising.

Shot my only bull, elk ever for that matter, up there last year. Thats one area I hope hadnt burned to the ground. That sucks!

Escudilla?? man thats a sad sight to see

why cant AZ do this!!!!

I haven't read all the post's (too tired). What I can tell you is that i've been on this fire for 11 days now and I am emotionally taxed. Being born and raised here this is hard to watch. Yes the USFS is, and will be under fire. ( Feel free to sit at your keyboard and fire away) But the bottom line is that there are good people (locals) on the ground doing good work. All I am saying is the USFS is a huge agency and alot of good, well meaning folks get a paycheck from them. Overhead and management could use some work. We're given' er heck boys. As with every large company or agency there is the GOOD, the BAD, and, the UGLY.] Rest assured there are a lot of the good and a few of the ugly on the ground working to save as much of the White Mts as posible. e Anybody directing anger at you guys is wrong, management is a different story though. Good time to do some clearing out while this thing is going, but that seems to be happening with all the back buring going on, right?? Good luck, pictures that have come out so far seem alot more promising than I had figured. You guys must be doing very well!

Its all money driven and motivated. The only thing that makes the government live and die is money. Hit em in the pocket books and they will change policy. Much like the politicians. I'll give the eco-enviro nuts that much(as much as it disgusts me to say it). They know what works to get things done for them. They sue cause they know the powers that be listen when it comes down to legalities. We all see what happens when there voices are listened to. People like us need groups with large pockets to turn the legal battle back in our favor to straighten this out.

Nice little sales pitch they have there, but that thing can lay down some water. I hope it truly earns its paycheck over the coming days. Just watched it right before you posted. Very impressive and I believe they have a few of them actually.

3 miles long- 100 yards wide of fire retardant-one pass??? Wow

Gotta remember, the government is reactive not proactive, the bureacrats in DC are doing this country under, shouldnt come as a suprise they mismanaged the forests.

I hate to ask this for answer I might recieve, but is it complete scorched nuclear type damage or is there still a decent amount of forest left?? I know nothing about fires, just been hearing lots of different rumors.

Things might not be the same, not as scenic, but it will be good again. Alot of great times up there as a kid and adult. And more to come with my kids. It is sad but something we all know could happen and will happen again in different areas. Mother natures way of cleaning out the forest, even if it was probably man made. Just trying to put a positive spin to it.

. Any official word or statement regarding the start of the fire by those 2 hikers? Or is that all rumor??

Thanks for saying this. There are many of us in the Forest Service that would like to see things managed differently but our hands are tied in so many ways. I am definately not saying the Forest Service makes all the right decisions but there are many of us that agree that logging, ranching, and prescribed burns are crucial to replacing the low intensity fires that would naturally reduce the fuels every few years before we all came along. I know the Forest Service is not popular on this site and I can understand some of the reasons why but please know that there are fellow hunters and lovers of the outdoors within the agency that are really trying to make a difference for the good. I dont think most are attacking ones like you. Most people understand that the "grunts" and ones doing the actual work that matters arent the problem. Its the upper level policy makers and management that the anger is geared towards. Anyone who works for any government knows that most of the people on top make decisions based on what is most benefical towards there careers not whats best for the state, country, and its people. Political and career ambition trumps integrity. Its unfortunate but its seems to be what drives peoples motivations.

Whatever happened to just hunting cause you enjoy it and like the challenge for yourself. Nowdays its all about how big the animal is and bragging. Which is totally fine if you work your @%#& off for it. But like it was said in a previous post, People pay thousands to be guided on a hunt just so they can say "Look what I shot!" Never having done any of the work or even knowing how. Just point and pull the trigger. People think way to high of themselves or perhaps not, maybe why they need something to bost about. People lie, cheat and steal to great lengths, all for attention. Pathetic really!

I completely disagree. You are correct that we have had over sixty years of aggressive fire suppresion. The US Forest Circus has not allowed the forest to be "managed". An this is what we get. We don't live in "unsettled" territory. We cannot allow things to burn as they did when the dinosaurs roamed. The forest has to be groomed. That can happen naturally or through good management techniques (read logging). If it happens naturally you get a Rodeo-Chedeski Fire.....an then who have you helped? What resources have you managed? You haven't. The US Forest Circus won't allow any of the timber to be harvested....so those precious natural resources will again be mismanaged and abused. Anyone that thinks we need to let "mother nature" manage things naturally needs to go get their head examined....better yet go live in the city with all the rest of the retards and stay the heck out of OUR forest. You don't belong. You are un-natural! If you get banned for those 2 posts, then there is no point in having open forums for comments. Things cant always be nice and politically correct. Just like real life. Perhaps we could help cut our national debt by eliminating the FS!! Obviously there version of "management" isnt actually managing anything, So whats the point?? They only jump when its already to late and we pay by the millions to fight these fires. The people in charge, like our wonderful politicians, need a healthy fear for there jobs for lack of doing them. Perhaps then they would take things serious.

Hope the structures and Alpine make it out ok. Hopefully this will be for the better once it is all done.

You could see the plume today from Safford looking Northeast.

Any experiance looking through these? I would like to get a pair of the Razor HD's in a 10x 0r 8x42 but not sure if I want to or can spend the amount they are now going for. Anybody seen the diffrence between the Talons and the Vipers?? Wheres the best place to pick some up to look through? Cabelas doesnt sell them right now for some reason. It seems like there lines have gone to HD.

Any places in Tucson that has good optics selection to look through?? I will try Sportsmans but was just curious about any others.

So would you put the Zen Ray's on the level of the Razors or Vipers? The one thing I really like about Vortex is the warranty. If the Zen Rays and vortex are comparable in quality but the Vortex equivalent is just a little more in price, than I would go with the Vortex due to the warranty. Does Sportsmans carry the Zen Rays?? I looked at some 10x42mm Diamondbacks at Gila Outdoor and they were clear as can be. Especially considering the price! I thnk they were way better than the Leupolds I had and better than Nikons I looked through.

Its called add stomping, and alot of other websites suspend or kick you off there site for doing it. If you find a lower price, PM the individual if you just have to tell them it is too high. Good to see it sold.

I dont necessarily have to have HD's but it seems that alot of optics are going that route and maybe that will be the only offerings in the future, I dont know though. I wish I had bought some of the Razors cameraland had on sale like 6 monsth ago or so. Looking back now, they were a really good deal and available. Now its hard to find Razors available or for less than $1000. Maybe Doug can chime in and tell the difference between the 3 models.

I might check Mt graham archery, Gila Outdoor never keeps a stock of them anymore for some reason. I am looking at binos not spotting scopes. What Vipers do you have, power wise?? What other binos would you comparer them to? Thanks!