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MMACFIVE

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Everything posted by MMACFIVE

  1. MMACFIVE

    Any rutting down south

    MMACFIVE replied to AZbowhntr's topic in Coues Deer Hunting in Arizona

    My son and I were in 35A the last 5 days of the year. Nearly every buck we saw was traveling and trolling. The does weren't having any of it. When the bucks would start nosing around they would sprint off and the buck would put it nose down and go find other does.
  2. MMACFIVE
    I had soo much fun in my last post "Is Sectional Density by itself worthless" that I just have to give it one more try. I've always been attracted to non main stream cartridges like the 257 Roberst, 6.5x55 swede, the 280 Remington, etc. Often these cartridges are not loaded to their full potential because of older actions (or Remington's screw up!) I will use the 30-06 as am example parent case: Cartridge SAAMI PSI 25-06 63,000 6.5-06 A Square 65,000 270 Win 65,000 280 Rem 60,000 30-06 60,000 338-06 A Square 63,000 35 Whelen 63,000 It makes sense to me that If Everything IS Held Constant (file, bullets construction, brass, etc.) than the chamber pressure should be the same. So for many years I have made the assumption that if you are shooting within a "Parent" case that all calibers should shoot a bullets with the same SD at the same velocity (Again this is assuming that everything but the diameter is the same across the bullets!) Part of my assumption is that sense SD is a mathematical representation of the bullets weight and diameter it will partly account for things like bearing surface and expansion ratio. So far this has worked out very well for me..or maybe I've just got lucky. I would like to hear constructive challenge of this theorem. And I'd like to thank 308nut for his healthy input into my last post. Mike
  3. MMACFIVE

    Fun With Sectional Density

    MMACFIVE replied to MMACFIVE's topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    Please, please tell me how to end it? I want a redo!
  4. MMACFIVE

    Fun With Sectional Density

    MMACFIVE replied to MMACFIVE's topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    "Definitely Hi-Jacked now"....N.S. But it was dead before it ever started. I'm kinda new here. Do all bad posts lead to the same place over time (sex, bowel movements, gun control, etc)? And I'm not quite sure how having sex twice and 2 kids is lucky...seems very unlucky to me.
  5. MMACFIVE

    6.5-06 opinions

    MMACFIVE replied to muledeerarea33?'s topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    Bob Hagel printed a book in 1978 called "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter". You can still pick up copies on eBay cheap if you want a little reloading history. For many of us, at least for me, It was the bible of reloading. Bob was was ahead of his time. In Bob's book the 264WM is pushing 140's at 3180+. Lark is also right that when the 264 was announced the 140's were going around 3200 fps. Litigation/Liability and technology has sure impacted all of us. We (some of the old fogies on this forum) used to be obsessed with velocity, and 450 yards was a freaking long ways. Range Finders have really changed the game and velocity is not nearly as important. And our accuracy expectations have changed also. We use to want to shoot as fast as we could and sight our rifles in for a "maximum point blank range". MOA was good enough. On deer you could hold dead on to about 350 yards or so and just pull the trigger. The faster you went the longer the point blank range. This explains why I am still enamored with velocity! Mike
  6. MMACFIVE

    6.5-06 opinions

    MMACFIVE replied to muledeerarea33?'s topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    Dang it, it hurts me to say this but I lean towards Lark on this one. I am a firm believer that velocity follows case capacity. The 264 Win Mag has about 10 grains or roughly 15% more capacity than the 6.5-06 AI so it should be able to push the same bullet faster with the same psi. I want to own one of those two cartridges some day and the decision will be dependent on the platform I build it on. If I re-barrel a standard length magazine it will be the 6.5-06. If I replace my 7 STW it will be the 264 win mag with the bullet seated out as far as practical. If you are exceeding the 264 WM velocities with your 6.5-06 AI I'd be willing to bet you are loading at or above 65 kpsi. If the 264 is loaded to the same psi it should produce more fps.
  7. MMACFIVE

    6.5-06 opinions

    MMACFIVE replied to muledeerarea33?'s topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    Stomp, If your 6.5-06 AI velocities are about the same as the 264 Win mag why do you expect the barrel life to be much different?
  8. MMACFIVE

    Fun With Sectional Density

    MMACFIVE replied to MMACFIVE's topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    I totally agree with you on your SD paragraph. Well said. If my parent case capacity theory was absolutely accurate it would say that you are driving the 25 too hot or the 30-06 not not enough. I've shot enough 120s out of the 25-06 to know that is a reasonable velocity. And I've shot enough 30-06 to know I can't safely get 3100 with a 168. But my theory makes me think there is some place in the middle with the 30-06. I can get about 3000 with the 168's. Remember I am assuming I can load an additional 5kPSI pressure safely in the 06. With Hodgdon Superformace I just might get close to 3100 with the 168s....HSP works really well in most of the 30-06 size cases.
  9. MMACFIVE

    Fun With Sectional Density

    MMACFIVE replied to MMACFIVE's topic in Rifles, Reloading and Gunsmithing

    I'm sorry. I don't mean to come across that I need to prove anything. I've just been operating under the theory that a given case capacity should shoot a bullet with the same SD the same velocity. All I wanted was some independent challenge to see if I am way off base. I use the case capacity theory with different cartridges also. My 300 H&H is about the same capacity as the 300 Win mag so I cross reference those loads. There are often more up to date loads with the newer powders with the more popular cartridges. For example Nosler just published a bunch of loads for their new 28 Nosler. They probably won't update my 7mm STW any time soon but since the case capacity between the 2 cases is within about 1 grain I can use the new 28 Nosler data as a reference for my STW. As for what specifically has worked out well for me? I just bought a Forbes 24b in 6.5x55. As most know this cartridge is loaded to very low specs because of some of the old actions. I should be able to load it to the same pressures as the 25-06 and 270 win since they are also loaded in the same gun. With my O.C.L. I calculated my usable volume (54g) to be between the 260 rem and the 6.5x284, therefore I should expect my velocities to represent that. I am getting 3000fps with a 130 NAB from the Forbes with no pressure signs so it worked out for me in this case. I also want to apologize for the period bumps....they weren't intentional. Just pure exasperation trying to learn a new editing system that would not let me do what I thought it should....but I did learn how to bump to the top!
  10. MMACFIVE
    Like NRALIFER stated above I also started using HSP when it was released based upon its burn rate. In my experience it is very similar to H4831. I have loaded it in multiple cartridges: 300 Weatherby, 7mm STW, 280 rem, 270 win, 6.5x55, 25-06, and others. In the large cases it has given me the same velocities as H4831/rR22/IMR7828/IMR7797 etc. In some rifles I've got great velocities but poor groups. But boy does it ever meter good! In the 30-06 size cases it has done a little better. In a Rifles Inc. 270 with a 23" barrel 60gr of HSp will send a 129gr LRX out the tube at 3350fps....really. I backed it down to 58 1/2 gr and shoot 3200+fps and less than .5MOA groups with a rifle that weighs 6lb 8oz all loaded up with a VX3 4.5-14, full magazine of cartridges and a sling. I get 3150 fps with a Barnes 145g LRX in a 280 and could go higher. Look at the Hodgdon reloading sight as they are always adding HSP. They have it for the 280 rem now. For the most part I have been trying to switch to the temperature insensitive powders....I do dot know how well HSP is with respect to temperature extremes. Does anyone?
  11. MMACFIVE
    After many decades of reloading and hunting I am of the opinion that SD in and un its-self is worthless. For example I believe a 7mm 120gr Barnes TTSX with a SD of .213 will out penetrate a 180 Berger 7mm with a SD of .319. What is important is the Post Expansion (PE) SD and the Berger looses so much weight and has a larger diameter which gives it a lower PE SD than the Bartnes 120. Any Comments.
  12. MMACFIVE
    Nice. heck I might even like you with a bottle of Jack between us.
  13. MMACFIVE
    270, From everything I've read 308 is right on the money, the money, the money. oh wait did I stutter. I have not seen you add a D!@#$ thing that actually contributes to this. In fact you have said a few things that are just foolish, And it seems to be pretty antagonistic. But lets not forget I'm the hostile one here....I have to admit I didn't recognize from the quality of your comments your expertise. But now that I noticed you have nearly 5000 posts so you must be an expert at nearly everything.
  14. MMACFIVE
    Thank you, I'll own that....the jerk comment might not of been helpful. But you have to admit previous comments could allow for much worse implications. I don't understand why these forums get so attacking. Why does someone need to prove their mental superiority? Yes penetration on animals is variable. Although this wasn't meant to to be about bullets selection I know that I use a bullets that work in the worst shot locations and if or when I lose and animal it will be on me, not my bullet. You almost never hear someone owing something they did wrong.....its always the bullet.
  15. MMACFIVE
    I'm just glad none of us are too old to learn something new. When all things were equal, SD was a pretty direct correlation to penetration. Now we have solids, monolithics, explosive, bonded, interlocked, etc so it doesn't' quite mean the same. Even though its been around along a long time other parameters have changed. Heck, even ole Bryan Litz might be learning a thing or two about BCs with Doppler now? So if you can't stay on point or if you just have to be jerk about it maybe you should just stay out of the conversation? SD is just a mathematical expression of weight to diameter. Given equal construction it gives us a reference point of penetration between multiple diameters...so maybe it isn't quite dead yet. Or had you already implied that and I missed it?
  16. MMACFIVE
    308, I think we are closer in thoughts than you think. I actually think if everything is held constant, SD, construction, form factor, etc the the BC from any caliber should be nearly the same. e.g all Nosler Accubonds with a SD of .260 should have nearly identical BCs. What do you think? ( and thats' not patronizing!)
  17. MMACFIVE
    308 nut: you said, and I quote "Also, 2 bullets that have equal caliber and form factor but have different SDs, which do you think will penetrate more? Lets pretend that one is a FMJ and one is a thinly explosive bullet. I think we can have both made with the same form factor and the same SD? Can't we? Then we have to agree that one will penetrate better then the other. So No, equal construction was not "Stated right tin the quote"! And as far as Sierra setting me straight: the 220gr 30 cal round nose has SD of .331 and a BC of .31 while the 220 HPBT MK has a SD of .331 and a BC of .629. So doesn't that actually "set you straight? My main point is that it is not accurate when a posters states they would not use bullets X because of SD. If I compare the venerable Nosler partition that has been one of my favorite bullets for nearly 50 years and recognized and one of the best penetrating bullets on the market I know I can shoot a Barnes (or eTIP, or GMX, or) that weights about 30% less and still get nearly the same penetration because of "Post Expansion SD". We could get on a tangent about BC vs Velocity, vs wind drift here if we want to go on a tangent but that was not my intention of the post. I am not Trolling. I am not telling anyone they should be shooting one bullet or another (although we have killed nearly 60 javelina, Deer, Antelope, Bighorns, Elk, and other big game animals with Barnes and have never had a single bad experience so I have complete faith in them. I also like speer, nosler, and hornady, among others. I am suggesting to not base penetration on SD alone! And 270: I kinda have to question you last statement.
  18. MMACFIVE
    1st, why do you say that the barnes will out penetrate the berger? It may in some cases and not in others. I am not trying to make this an argument between Berger and Barnes; Its just that they are kinda the extremes in construction right now. I'm just try to say that technology and changed so much over the last 50 or so years that SD does not have the meaning it once did. When all bullets were a form of cup and core a person could use SD as an estimation of penetration potential. That's not the case anymore. If all else were equal (ie construction, expansion ratio, material, etc...) the bullet with the higher SD wins. Period. Exactly, If all else is equal the bullet with the heavier SD will penetrate more. I can't not count the times I've read on these forums "don't use that 145g LRX cause it just wont have enough penetration compared to the 190 Berger...." B.S. Also, 2 bullets that have equal caliber and form factor but have different SDs, which do you think will penetrate more? I agree but you missed equal construction....I think you were implying that though? I think what you're looking at is a barnes 120 blowing through a section of ballistic gelatin where the berger might have exploded and didn't exit. That has nothing to do with SD but everything to do with construction and expansion properties. Once again I agree...I think this actually supports my theorem that "SD in and un iits-self" is worthless. SD is also a direct contributing factor to ballistic coefficient. That is part of the reason barnes bullets have such low BCs. Equal weight and form factor, the jacketed lead bullet will have a higher BC. Why? Because (among other contributing factors such as specific gravity and others) the all copper bullet has more mass which produces more air drag and doesn't weigh more to be able to offset the added drag. Which will penetrate more? That depends on how much each will expand. This statement I might have more problems with. SD is not a direct contributing factor to BC. Only if it has the same form factor (but you might have meant that too?) e.g. a cup and core 220g round nose and a cup and core 220g VLD form factor with have a very different BC. And BTW copper has less mass than a lead bullet not more. And mass does not produce more air drag; form factor does. That's why a 6.5mm 140g berger with a SD of .287 has about the same BC and SD and thier 7mm 168gr bullet. If they have the same velocities won't they have the same trajectory?
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    Its too bad you've have such a bad experience with the pressure with Barnes. Since the put grooves on the and called the TSX I have never seen this. I drive them at the same velocity with about the same powder charge as conventional bullets.
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