bojangles

price on the 700?

don't make the mistake of getting married during any potential hunting seasons unless the wife is a hunter also. that anniversary will come up at the most inopportune time every single year. my anniversary is safely nestled in July.

yeah, but what if it was search and rescue, or law enforcement or something?

yeah, i can't imagine that this is legit. on their facebook page, they are still maintaining legitimacy, but i gotta second guess this one. it doesn't even seem close.

https://www.facebook.com/vortexoptics/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED crazy stuff out there.

congrats!! in other headlines, here's a 36 year old that ain't even ever seen a buck that big.

some of you will recognize this spot. was a quick 12 mile ride Saturday before last. one of the most beautiful rides out there

I just inherited my great grandfather's hunting rifle. Its a ww1 mauser 06. Its pretty cool to have it. He built the stock and rear peep sight. Pics following.

Deer i shot this year had more ticks on it than i have ever seen on an animal.

I've heard some rumblings of G&F considering making it illegal to bowhunt withing 1/4 mile of an occupied structure, and i would like to put together some simple research to show that this is not productive towards wildlife, hunters, and hunting. I know there is a meeting in Tuscon tomorrow, but it's a 3 hour drive for me. I may be willing to make the drive anyways if need be, but i'd be short on research time. How long do i have to email a public comment before consideration is closed for the next set of guidelines? I'd like to illustrate simple bullet points such as -many states offer urban bowhunts. it is common practice that is considered safe. archery is often done indoors, so safety cannot be considered a concern. Where i grew up in Indiana, they have specific urban hunts,often within or near the city limits, and close to houses. These types of hunts are common nationwide. Why would we ignore such an opportunity? -we would be closing down hunting where hunting is needed most. this is the real tragedy. When i ride my bike from star valley to payson every week, the side of the road is littered with dead deer, elk, and javelina. I would venture to say that a great portion (again i need research, but i believe this to be true) of animal vehicle collisions occur in or near city limits, and close to houses. I believe most unwanted wildlife encounters occur near houses. Housing provides sanctuary for critters, and that's where the problem begins. I believe we need more urban area tags, like around payson, pine, etc, where wildlife is simply out of control. I drove through chaparral pines the other day and saw about 100 elk in 1 mile. The overgrazing is uncontrollable. Plus the damage done to personal property is significant. Elk do considerable damage every year in my neighborhood alone. Neighbors will often ask me to shoot problem elk for them, but this gives me a chance to explain the hunting/draw process, and the responsibility of game management/managers. -to address hunter/homeowner conflict, i suggest we prosecute trespassers, and enforce current laws. I know people who have found dead animals in their yards and have blamed hunters. Hunters can't be held responsible for every animal that dies. And even if a homeowner finds a dead animal in their yard that was legally killed by a hunter, this shouldn't be looked upon as a problem. This should be viewed by G&F as a recovery, while unfortunate, as a part of the life cycle. It would be nice to see G&F take a stand for sportsmen every once in a while. -I know many homeowners hunt on or near their own property, and feed their families with the game they take. This is a common, nationwide hunting practice. The 1/4 mile hunting rule would stop many people who hunt on their own wooded lots. I know many, if not most archery hunters, take game within 1/4 mile of houses. This rule would shut down hunting for the entire "after and before work" hunting crowd, who hunt near their homes after work. -Lets not allow Californians, who grew up in the city, come here, and make us change our way of life. We were hunters here first, my family hunted in Arizona as early as 1915, and i have the pictures to prove it. If people don't like hunters and hunting culture, and those of us hunt to put organic food on the table, it would be nice if G&F would instruct them to sell their property, and move back to SoCal, where they can avoid hunters, and breathe smog, and get their houses broken into, and sit all afternoon in traffic, and have earthquakes, floods, rolling blackouts, etc. Or, they can enjoy arizona, and learn to accept hunting culture. I missed our local GMU meeting last week, but i don't want to let the voice of reason be silent. Any ideas?

well, i think solutions can be found, if we put our heads together, that can provide viable, realistic solutions for interested parties. that's why i like discussions like this. we can explore angles to make solutions without squashing hunting privileges and trampling homeowners rights. solutions are out there, we just have to find them and create them. if you take a walk around any of the areas i mentioned, you'd notice the amount of trail cameras, ground blinds and tree stands are phenomenal. that means a lot of guys are using these areas. as a service tech in the rim country, i can't help but notice the amount of people who hunt on their own lots. i don't want to see these guys lose that. I have a stand that is less then a 1/4 mile from a house that i call my "after work" stand, it's where i hunt when i get off work early. I don't want to lose that either. It's a great place, and a lot of guys are in there hunting right along side of me. it's the way it should be. i met a homeowner who helped G&F search for a deer that a kid had shot that jumped the fence into pine. They found the deer, and helped the kid recover it w/out trespassing. It was good. The homeowner was glad to help the kid recover the deer. That's the way it should be, and i hope that's the way it can stay. i don't want to lose these privileges by them being outlawed, or, by irresponsibility. i think if we put our heads together we can come up with something. it's a good conversation. thanks for participating.

1) ok. i'll buy that. but i can say the same. but my point here is that we do live in hunting culture, and people are not often offended at the sight of dead animals. also, my point here is not to say that you are paraniod per se, but that people in general are more accepting of hunting practices that you may realize. please don't take personal offense. im ultimately on your side here. 2), i'm not really holier than thou, or even a great hunter. I just want to point out that a lot of guys really aren't hard core, don't want to go way out to get an elk or deer steak. and i respect that as much as a back country longbow hunter, like aron snyder. but beer belly billy bob should get his day too. 3) you're right, those guys really aren't that important. I guess the backyard deer hunters aren't either. 4) maybe it's been a while since you've seen where houses have popped up. yes, the back tip of mayfield and some of the further reaches of pine creek could still be hunted, and maybe if you got out a rangefinder and stepped it off, you could even find a legal tree to put a stand on on strawberry mountain, but by and large these traditional areas would be off limits to people who have hunted here for years. once again, i'd like to point out that urban hunting is a common practice throughout the united states, and has helped, and not hurt the image of hunting and hunters overall, i believe. i don't think that we would be an exception to that. Can you offer an example of where legal urban archery hunting has hindered hunting privileges, or been detrimental to the practice of hunting? If you can, i'd like to hear about it. Yes in unit 19A the antelope hunt used to allow hunters to hunt West of Robert Road. The proximity to homes after development ultimately lead to conflicts which got the area closed to archery antelope hunting. I was there the last year it was open. I chased a monster buck. I also oissed off a lot of homeowners and they told of me as much. I should have been better. I really think your beef is with development, not hunting. Ultimately, as habitat is lost or encroached, these conflicts arise. It's the world we live in. Well, that's a shame. Was it public land?

no, but i work there often. i'm in there several times a month. not too long ago i talked to a guy who's neigbor found an arrow stuck in the side of his house. that's a shame. i could only hang my head. the problem is real. dudes sneak in there and shoot out of their trucks. yes, they feed the deer in there, but there's no excuse for that behavior.

1) ok. i'll buy that. but i can say the same. but my point here is that we do live in hunting culture, and people are not often offended at the sight of dead animals. also, my point here is not to say that you are paraniod per se, but that people in general are more accepting of hunting practices that you may realize. please don't take personal offense. im ultimately on your side here. 2), i'm not really holier than thou, or even a great hunter. I just want to point out that a lot of guys really aren't hard core, don't want to go way out to get an elk or deer steak. and i respect that as much as a back country longbow hunter, like aron snyder. but beer belly billy bob should get his day too. 3) you're right, those guys really aren't that important. i guess the backyard deer hunters aren't either. 4) maybe it's been a while since you've seen where houses have popped up. yes, the back tip of mayfield and some of the further reaches of pine creek could still be hunted, and maybe if you got out a rangefinder and stepped it off, you could even find a legal tree to put a stand on on strawberry mountain, but by and large these traditional areas would be off limits to people who have hunted here for years. once again, i'd like to point out that urban hunting is a common practice throughout the united states, and has helped, and not hurt the image of hunting and hunters overall, i believe. i don't think that we would be an exception to that. Can you offer an example of where legal urban archery hunting has hindered hunting privileges, or been detrimental to the practice of hunting? If you can, i'd like to hear about it.

here's the thing, though. you rarely see bucks in town. these are usually not hand fed pets, but wild animals. so, by nature, you won't shoot someones pet, because usually only does are pets. Of course, this is not so for elk, as they have cow tags, but i don't think there are many people out there that have "pet" cow elk, but i do know a few. What i think you guys mis-understand, because most of you are not from here, is that many of the homeowners up here hunt on their own lots, or behind their houses. And when i say many, i mean there is an awful lot of them. I know a guy that let 4 bucks be killed on his own lot, most of them by junior hunters. A kid killed a 105" off this lot this winter. This is widely accepted in this neck of the woods. It is a COMMON practice. But because many of you don't live here, you have developed a sense of paranoia about what goes on. let's put it this way, a lot of guys hunt in the greenbelt, and EVERYBODY wants an elk steak, whether they hunt or not. You're hard pressed to get a PETA loving vegan to turn down an elk steak up here. I think you're fears are unfounded, and encroach on the lives of the people who have lived here for years. yeah, there's the occasional portals poacher, and that needs to be dealt with, but not at the expense of everyone else who puts tree stands in/near their yards. i was thinking of the areas that would be banned from hunting that people have hunted for generations. here's a sample list of places the locals have hunted for generations that would be illegal -bradshaw tank -pine creek canyon -dripping springs -all of strawberry mountain and surrounding areas (most of your early archery bull hunting takes place here. It's the best 22n has to offer, and you can kiss this goodbye if that law passes.) -upper round valley tank, one of the best elk tanks in payson area for an archery cow tag. that tank has put a lot of roasts in the pot. it would be a shame to lose that. -granite dells -peach orchard, and peach orchard tank -monument peak -mayfield canyon, again, you would be robbing dinners from locals by banning hunting in mayfield canyon. it's another great archery cow tag area. this canyon has served dinner for many of the people of payson for years. -the better portions of round valley -lion springs -much of the canyons off hardscrabble road, and the adjacent tanks. -the first american gulch tank, which is javelina central headquarters you have to think about what you are proposing here. i'm going to go out on a limb, and say that greater than 50 percent of the archery tags in unit 22 are filled in these locations. i can't even begin to list the friends i have that have hunted these locations for generations, without incident.

Good thoughts. Respect is everything. I'll give you that all day long. Most of these altercations result in disrespect of someone's property or values.

this is the exact same line of reasoning the anti-gun crowd uses. you are right in the fact that dudes who hunt in the portals are in violating their HOA's rules. To be fair to said dude, i don't think he hunts their anymore since they've cracked down. To be fair to you're argument, one of the biggest complaints about living in the portals is road hunters, who need to be prosecuted anyways. However, if someone mis-uses a handgun, should i expect my right to carry to be infringed upon? they'll try, but i'll fight. There will always be that "one guy" that does it all wrong that gives us all a bad name. But making a 1/4 mile rule won't stop poaching near houses. I have a friend who lives in pine, chase out at the point of his 45 a couple of dudes who were running down a doe in his yard with their pickup truck, with a guy in the bed pointing his bow at the deer. Look, the 1/4 rule won't stop those guys and you know it, but it will stop law abiding citizens like a lot of my friends, from putting food on the table. A lot of these guys are cow elk hunters, not looking for glory, but for dinner. I understand if this is not challenging enough for you, but let's not say that we don't support these guys. Some of them are older, some of them are youth, some of them would like a wilderness hunt, but just don't have time. Is there a problem? maybe, but i think it's much smaller than you're making it out to be. Most of the people in these forested communites hunt or have a close friend or relative who does. I don't think people have a problem with it. As for the poachers in chap pines, that's a whole other thing. I don't think those guys were even close to hunting, they're just tired of elk in there in general. Giving up rights/privileges is never a good solution to a problem. Cracking down on the violators usually does the trick.

Its not true. I know people in the portals that hunt in the portals, people in chapparal pines poach their own elk. They are building a fence around chapparal pines right now to keep the elk out because they are such a problem. Last week there was a fresh dead elk between star valley and payson, like there is every week. A while back i came upon a dead guy on 260 that hit an elk on his harley by chap pines. I dont think people will object to urban hunting like you think they will. Like i mentioned before, the whole eastern half of the US accepts this as a way of life, and its actually accepted here now. You are afraid of paper dragons. You will surrender without a fight. Might as well move to france. Bet they dont hunt too much over there. Not only is urban hunting convenient, its necessary. I dont understand you, urban hunting is common nearly everywhere, but you guys want to set a precedent by making it illegal. Fascinating. And from people who call themselves hunters, no less.

Yes because that's exactly what I said. I know it all because I agree with not shooting animals within a quarter mile of a house. Remember back in the day when we used to be able to trap with footholds? Anyone know why that ended? Because some idiot decided to trap right next to houses and caught someone's pet. It took 1 instance to get trapping banned. We have all seen the uproar when animals die in peoples back yards or when non hunters see dead animals like that. We don't have a problem with it but there are a lot of people that do. Believe me if I knew there would be no issues arising from people shooting animals in backyards I wouldn't agree with a law like this. The way I see it is if the few guys that enjoy hunting in neighborhoods or behind houses refuse to give up 1/4 mile to avoid conflicts with non hunters then they don't care about hunting being banned for good in the future. I honestly find it hard to believe you can't find a place to hunt that's not within 1/4 mile of a house. Yes I agree it might be more convenient but it would also be more convenient to hunt in Grand canyon national park. But we all know we can't do that. Why do you think that is? To avoid conflict and for safety. If holding onto your 1/4 mile rather than going 1/2 a mile is worth ruining it for everyone then have at it. Sometimes you have to give up a little for the greater good of hunting. 1/4 mile is such a small amount to make a big fuss over it blows my mind. But apparently there are more guys than I thought that enjoy hunting near town. Maybe all the deer are so skittish near town because so many guys are hunting them. And maybe that's why they are making this law? maybe we lost trapping because we didn't stick together and fight for it. we let it go, because we didn't trap. we gave it up for the greater good. just like we will give up lion hunting, trail cameras, hounds, and urban bowhunting. btw, the last urban buck i shot, as i was packing it out, a homeowner stepped over the fence to shake my hand on taking a nice buck. his neighbor lets people hunt in his yard, and i know him personally, he just wasn't home that day. generally, people don't object to urban hunting. while i respect you, your methods of hunting, and your opinions, i really feel like we need to stick together on these issues. HSUS is knocking out privileges by the minute, don't think they'll stop at a quarter mile.

Except for its not their pet. It's a wild animal that they're probably not supposed to be feeding to begin with. While I can sympathize with a non hunter growing an appreciation for an animal they see every day and grow a bond with they should realize its a game animal and have realistic expectations of what could potentially happen to that animal.Not that I disagree with you completely but in their eyes it's just the opposite. They don't care that you think you should be able to kill the animal. They think it's their community elk and they will name him and expect that Noone should be able to kill them. While I'm on your side you have to see their side as non hunters. I'm not sure who hunts a quarter mile from houses anyway but I'd imagine you could find some animals a little further away from a house. I personally wouldn't mind if the law passes either way. First because I think people that claim to be hunters should get out and hunt rather than hunt off the back porch. Second it would avoid some of these stories of people seeing their community animal in their backyard die and then start a petition to end all hunting because they now hate people that hunt.I couldn't disagree with you more, for all of the reasons i mentioned above. Your response is emotional, and not scientific, nor does it take up for sportsmen in general. There are many states where you would have a hard time finding a place to hunt that is 1/4 mile from a house, so this sets a dangerous precedent. Whats more, there are 2 conditions in AZ that provide good hunting. 1) deep in the woods, a long journey down a rough road or in the wilderness areas, and 2) behind houses, where thr rifle hunters haven't shot everything to pieces. Please consider us blue collar guys who have limited time and resources to take off work, and have a hard time leaving the wife saddled with the kids for weeks on end while out fulfilling our hunting desires. If a law such as this passes, i personally will have extremely limited opportunities to fill a tag. Which is especially difficult when i can glass critters from my front porch. Please think of sportsmens rights in general, and not be critical over someone elses "easy" hunt. Im not thinking emotionally at all. I'm simply giving you the facts that just because you feel one way doesn't mean the people that feed them have to just give into how you think. We aren't talking about other states we are talking about AZ that has more public land hunting than almost anywhere in the US. I'm a blue collar guy myself that puts in for hunts that are 1 hour- 8 hours away from my house and I've done just fine being able to hunt my whole life. I've never done a week long wilderness hunt but I have had to drive a couple hours to hunt for a day. That's just the way it is. You don't have to leave for days on end to have a successful hunt. There isn't a place in az that you can't drive one hour and be 1/4 mile from a house. I don't know your situation but if you literally can't get 1/4 mile from a house in az to hunt something you're not trying. While I agree it's easier to shoot the deer that gets fed by people every day I'm not sure how you get satisfaction from a hunt like that. You obviously don't enjoy trying to hunt a animals away from homes because it's too far and hard for you to get in your truck and drive a little ways. I'm simply saying that just because you claim it's ok to hunt within a quarter mile of a house because they are game animals and the people feeding them just have to deal with that is stupid. Putting a quarter mile barrier from houses to avoid people killing people's "pet deer" is perfectly fine in my eyes. Obviously it's not their deer but if we can avoid killing Bambi in their back yard I'm all for it. Instances where non hunters or people that don't really care either way see a deer dying with an arrow stuck in it isn't gonna help us hunters in any way. Just because you feel they should deal with it doesn't make you right. This isnt a law to hinder hunters or to single out specific types of hunters. It's a law to avoid confrontation with non hunters so they don't have ammo against us to end hunting in general. If you can't deal with that and not hunt in peoples back yards I would call that selfish and attitudes like that is what is going to cause hunters problems in the future. once again, i couldn't disagree more. this is a law that would single out types of hunters, youths, beginners, and weekend warriors for starters; and the after work archery crowd as well. I would say, most of the hunters that i know hunt with 1/4 of houses. Most! That said, i'll call you out. I don't hunt "pet" deer. It's wild, bro. I'll pay you $100 cash if you can kill at least a 3 pt. whitetail behind my house this august/september. I'll show you the spot, the spring, the tree, everything. A major guide killed a 134" in there recently. If you think you're gonna waltz in there and kill a pet deer, you are sadly mistaken. You won't kill a deer, because you're not good enough. Urban deer are super pressured, and extremely hard to kill. You don't have it. You have a false notion about hunting urban deer. But if you can, i'll pay you $100. But you have to kill it within 1/4 mile of the subdivision, or it doesn't count. Dudes who kill stud whitetail bucks every year are stud hunters, period. You can say "pet deer" till you're blue in the face, but mature, urban deer are the hardest of all. They have you patterned. What's more, I get satisfaction out of putting meat on the table, I don't care about your judgment of where i hunt. What's more, I led some hunters into the local wilderness area, and we killed a nice 6x6 this fall. I drew, but didn't have a good shot angle, so i passed on the one shot i had. It was a 2 day pack out on foot for that bull. I can go in deep, and still hunt and kill. This was thanksgiving weekend, so it was easier to skip work. I'm a hunter's hunter. What's more, you need to support sportsmen. You might say, well, i don't hunt there, so it doesn't effect me. Well, one day it will effect you. One day they will close the national forrest to hunting altogether, and you'll know how it feels. Don't lay down on this one, because you think you're better. What's more, we need urban hunts, it's simply good management and good biology, it's not emotional, it's numbers. What's more, we need to be responsible, but hunt with a voice, and if that means that a hiker sees a dead deer, or a homeowner, than so be it. About 20 years ago, major sporting networks stopped showing shot impacts on TV, so the general public wouldn't be offended, and would take a more sympathetic view of hunting. It was foolishness. I'm not gonna pretend like when i hunt i don't get bloody. The general public could use some blood, sweat, and tears. I'm not gonna cater to their softness. Instead, I will lead on the opposite direction.

what's more, i could give you addresses of places where people feed animals, and keep entire hearts of animals on their property for the duration of hunting seasons.

there's a general lack of unity in the hunting community, and it aids to the erosion of our privileges as sportsmen. Long range? why, that's unsporting and results in crippling animals. lets pass a law against that. trail cameras? that's cheating, we should pass a law against that. tree stands? that littering in the forrest, we should pass a law against that. baiting? that's too easy, we should pass a law against that. you drove a 4-wheeler? that made too much noise, we should pass a law against that, or at least close the road. hounds? that's cruel, we should pass a law against that. hunt lions? that's unnecessary, we should pass a law against that. archery hunt near a house? that might create conflict, let's pass a law against that. you see where it goes? just because you have time to take off for a week and hunt the wilderness, and i applaud that, doesn't mean everyone can. I may be able to duck out of work at 3, and that's the best i can do for now. please don't take my opportunity.

Except for its not their pet. It's a wild animal that they're probably not supposed to be feeding to begin with. While I can sympathize with a non hunter growing an appreciation for an animal they see every day and grow a bond with they should realize its a game animal and have realistic expectations of what could potentially happen to that animal.Not that I disagree with you completely but in their eyes it's just the opposite. They don't care that you think you should be able to kill the animal. They think it's their community elk and they will name him and expect that Noone should be able to kill them. While I'm on your side you have to see their side as non hunters. I'm not sure who hunts a quarter mile from houses anyway but I'd imagine you could find some animals a little further away from a house. I personally wouldn't mind if the law passes either way. First because I think people that claim to be hunters should get out and hunt rather than hunt off the back porch. Second it would avoid some of these stories of people seeing their community animal in their backyard die and then start a petition to end all hunting because they now hate people that hunt. I couldn't disagree with you more, for all of the reasons i mentioned above. Your response is emotional, and not scientific, nor does it take up for sportsmen in general. There are many states where you would have a hard time finding a place to hunt that is 1/4 mile from a house, so this sets a dangerous precedent. Whats more, there are 2 conditions in AZ that provide good hunting. 1) deep in the woods, a long journey down a rough road or in the wilderness areas, and 2) behind houses, where thr rifle hunters haven't shot everything to pieces. Please consider us blue collar guys who have limited time and resources to take off work, and have a hard time leaving the wife saddled with the kids for weeks on end while out fulfilling our hunting desires. If a law such as this passes, i personally will have extremely limited opportunities to fill a tag. Which is especially difficult when i can glass critters from my front porch. Please think of sportsmens rights in general, and not be critical over someone elses "easy" hunt.

Almost makes me wish i was fat. Good deal.

kevin says "thanks!"