Brian Payne

Nice trip! Gives me the fever for sure!

+1

Nothing wrong with a good friendly debate. Yes, I am a civil engineer for the Forest Service but have only been with the agency for less than a year. Worked in the private industry previously. My comments represent my view as a hunter and forest user and are not the views of the agency. Never said it was MY back yard. In fact I think I was pretty clear in stating that it was public land. The fact that you were talking about a "new" road made me think you were not familiar with the area since the road has been there for many years. In fact this is not the first time it has been maintained. Nothing wrong with city boys. In case you haven't noticed yet, there is a lot of rock in Arizona. Bedrock is near the surface in many places including on roads. After time the bedrock is exposed and can make the road extremely rough. It doesn't take a civil engineer to know that typical graders don't do a lot to smooth the bedrock. The options are to bring in aggregate and cover up the bedrock or use a hammer or rock crusher to smooth the bedrock creating a smooth solid surface. The latter option is used all over the state on many forest roads, not just Charleau Gap, as road maintenance. So, no, it is not unusual. I was on some roads in 36B hunting in December where the rock crusher had just been used. They were nice, saved some wear and tear on my truck. The only reason the Charleau Gap road is in the spot light is because the CBD raised enough of a stink that it made the front page of the Tucson Daily Star. The truth is that any improvement that is not maintained eventually goes away, nature takes over, and then no one can use it. Are you suggesting that you don't want the Forest Service to use your tax dollars to maintain any of the forest roads? Or would like them maintained just enough so that your vehicle can get in but not the next guy. Or maybe you should submit of a list of the ones that you like to drive on and the ones you don't so the Forest Service will know which ones to maintain. I am against big government and reckless spending of tax dollars as much as anyone but I like accessing the forest and think that forest road maintenance is a good use of my tax dollars. On the same note, would you rather fund fire fighters getting flown into an area or driving into an area? I am sure you remember the Aspen Fire in that area a few years back. Would you rather fund trail crews driving into the trail heads or walking four miles just to get to the trail head? The issue is not as clear cut as you seem to think. P.S. I don't get embarrassed by misspelling a word. But good catch

Bowsniper (and son), I see that you are from Phoenix. Are you familiar with Charleau Gap? Obviously not since you think they are building a new road. The existing Charleau Gap road is the only access to a remote portion of the Catalina Mountains in Unit 33. The road had gotten so rough that it could it was even difficult drive with a 4x4 vehicle. Without this road a hunter would be looking at a four mile cross country hike with close to 1000 feet elevation gain just to get into Charleau Gap. I hike as much as anyone on this site and am more than willing to make hikes like this but the majority of the public is not. This is why it was kept as a forest system road. Are you suggesting we eliminate forest roads all together and all hunters, permitees, and forest users park along the highways and interstates and walk/horseback to where they want to go? Do you not drive on forest roads (maintained by the Forest Service) to access some of the areas you hunt in? There is already a road there, a new road is not being built. Therefore "road maintenance" not "construction." (Not stimulus funded) There are many places where there are more than enough roads to provide public access. Areas where two or three roads lead to the same place or a "grid" of roads was created to access old mining claims or timber sales. In these areas there are too many roads and closing some of them would limit where the road hunters could buzz around on their quads but still provide reasonable access to the public. Charleau Gap is definately not one of these areas. Is this intended to be a slam? I am always amazed when someone is willing to stand up and fight for something when they don't know the facts of what they are fighting about. Kind of embarassing.

Sweet buck! Nice dark horns. Neck all swollen up. I would say 100-105" as a 3x3 add 5" for the extra so 105-110.

Scott, Thanks for clueing us in on one of your "secret" hunting holes. We all have our areas that we would like to keep to ourselves but don't forget the Charleau Gap is public land and therefore should be accessible to the public. As a civil engineer you should understand and appreciate as well as anyone the need for road maintenance in order to prevent erosion and maintain functionality. I agree that there are too many roads on the forest. The Coronado National Forest Has recently completed a "Travel Management Plan" in which they consulted with numerous groups on determining which of the roads on the forest should be included as forest system roads and therefore maintained as such and which roads where not necessary to the funcionality of the forests many users and could be decomissioned. As a result of the study many miles of unneccessary forest roads are scheduled for decommissioning. The Charleau Gap road was designated as a forest system road and therefore needs to be maintained as such. Many groups will benefit from the use of this road including hunters, the permitee, and firefighters.

Fantastic buck Chris! Nobody deserves it more. When you get to be a good hunter you wont need the lucky shirt anymore

Super bucks and story! Sounds like a blast!

You guys put a hurtin on the big coues bucks. Sounds like a blast!

I have a feeling there are some bucks wondering around in the thick brush of the WMA that would blow our minds.

That just might be the coolest coues buck I have ever seen. What an absolute BRUTE!

All of Dustin's info is great. I use the Cabelas Alaskin Outfitter external frame pack. I like it. It has a very comfortable belt strap, is versitile, and has held up very well. I have had 120 lbs on it (ouch!).

Know the feeling all too well. At least you shot him with your camera. He's definately got mass. Does that buck have a droptine

Rembrant for President 2012

Double beams on boths sides! Wow! Don't know that I have ever seen that before. What a buck!

Between 100" and 105". Nice buck!

Great buck!

That thing has some serious wood!

Good grief! Major congratulations! That deer is unreal.

Nice pics for sure!

108 1/8 12/19/09

Awesome looking buck! Congrats!

That is a great looking wide buck! How big is he? He isn't mounting him?

Great story of perseverance! What a cool looking buck as well. Way to get it done!

Cool photos. Little guy try to get in on the action before big brother chases him off.