azsugarbear

Congrats on those big trout! Was it just german's, or did you get into some cuts and bows as well? I fished the Green for one gorgeous day in mid-July. We didn't catch much - fish were not rising. Tried nymphing, but very little action. Not much of a hatch going on then.....but it was still a great day. Can't wait to go back.

You state your max distance will be 700 yards. Wind (not gravity) will become your biggest challenge in hitting your intended target. Most shooters will dial up for elevation, but 'hold-off' for windage through the scope. That is because wind is a constantly changing variable. Holding off allows you to make last minute corrections. In order to be precise in your hold-off, you will need a reticle that has good sub-tenons in either MOA or Mils. Whatever you get, make sure the reticle matches the turret. If the turret is in 1/4 MOA clicks then your reticle needs to be MOA as well. Believe it or not, there are scopes out there with MOA turret clicks and mildot reticles. It's been a while since I looked at Leupold, but I believe you will pay extra to get a reticle with MOA sub-tenons. Just one more reason why I went with the Sightron SIII. I have owned a couple of Vortex Viper scopes. Great glass, but I had to use their warranty on each scope. I also own a couple of Nightforce NXS scopes. I have never had to use the warranty on the Nightforce. For me (and a lot of other shooters), the glass and clarity are superb. When it comes to perceived quality in glass, each shooter needs to make up his own mind and not rely on others. Many say the coatings that Nikon uses result in more blue/green hues. I have never found that to be true, but I have no doubt that it does for others. IMO, the Nighforce NXS is a heavy scope and made my lightweight rigs feel out of balance and very top heavy. A final thought on magnification: I have found that a minimum of 8x magnification is just too much for me. Not only does it make it difficult to locate animals in your scope at close range, but in AZ heat mirage becomes a real problem. The only way to escape it is to dial down your magnification. For my afternoon shooting, 8x is still too high to get rid of the mirage at 700 yards. Just my two cents.

Ended up doing a deal with kooter here on CWT. Smooth transaction with head exactly as described. So deal with confidence as kooter is GTG.

Looking to pick up a used one to try out. Let me know: (1) what you got; (2) condition; and (3) how much you want for it.

I found one. Thanks to all who chimed in with a PM to help me out.

Operating costs (incl. sinking costs for future maintenance) for a small piston helicopter such as the Robinson 22/44 or the Enstrom F-28F typically run about $400/hr. This does not include pilot time. Move up to the turbine class helicopters (most common) and the cost/hr. really begin to spike. The helicopter is a highly specialized type of aircraft and you pay for it. You would be better served finding a pilot with a STOL airplane for rent. Low and slow is the way to go.

Going from a 30 cal neck down to a 6.5mm neck is a bit of a jump. To protect the longevity of your brass, I would anneal the necks first. Next is lubing the case with a good lube like Imperial wax. Going down to a 6.5 neck will involve at least one step in between. You can run the brass through a Rem 280 or Win 270 die and then again through your 6.5-06 die. Most avoid the step by either using 25-06 brass and necking up, or using 270 brass and necking down (don't forget to trim your length with this option).

Both weight and design are taken into account with the ballistic coefficient (BC) of a bullet. For two different caliber bullets to have roughly the same external ballistics, they must both have the same BC and be launched at the same velocity. The 165 gr. Matrix in .277 caliber has a .65 BC. The closest a 30 cal bullet can come to this BC is the Berger 210 gr. VLD with a .63 BC. The 270 WSM should be able to run the 165 gr. Matrix at 3,100 fps. For the 300 WSM with the 210 Berger to equal the external ballistics, it needs to have a minimum muzzle velocity of at least 3,100+ fps. Neither the 300 Win Mag nor the 300 WSM can begin to achieve those velocities. The only way to get those velocities is to launch it from a 300 RUM. I have yet to find a bullet with a combo of BC and velocity shot from a 300 WSM that comes close to what the magnums in 6.5, .277 or 7mm can do. You can compensate for a bullet with a lower BC by launching it at a higher velocity. But again, pick any bullet at max velocity from either a 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM and run it through a ballistics calculator. The end result is the same. Here are some quick examples that I ran for each combo showing results at 1,000 yards: The 270 WSM running the 165 gr. Matrix @ 3,100 fps still has a velocity of 1,800 fps and 1,181 ft/lbs of energy. It requires only 5.2 MOA correction in a 10 mph wind. The 300 WSM running the 210 gr. Berger VLD @ 2,900 fps has a velocity of 1.621 fps and 1,225 ft/lbs of energy. It requires 5.9 MOA correction in a 10 mph wind. The 300 WSM running the 180 gr. Berger VLD @ 3,050 fps has a velocity of 1,572 fps and 988 ft/lbs of energy. It requires 6.6 MOA correction in a 10 mph wind. But this doesn't tell the whole story. Terminal ballistics need to be addressed as well. A little research reveals that most commercial bullets on the market today need a minimum of 1,800 fps in order to 'open up'. The 165 gr. Matrix from the 270 WSM still has enough velocity to open up and kill game at 1,000 yds. The 300 WSM with the 210 drops below the required minimum velocity at around 700 yds. The 300 WSM with the 180 drops below the required minimum velocity at 800 yds. That is the maximum effective range for these combos. They will still punch holes in paper beyond that, but terminal ballistics becomes very questionable. The difference in energy delivered at 1,000 yds is negligible at best. The fact that neither 30 cal bullet will have enough velocity to even open up cannot be overlooked. Yes the 30 cal delivers a little more energy. While this should not be the deciding factor, simply stepping up to the 175 gr. Matrix in .277 cal will tip the scales yet again in favor of the 270 WSM. The 7mm WSM provides a little more energy down range with ballistics very close to the 270 WSM. Bottom line for me: If the OP's rifle in 270 WSM is a shooter, then he need look no further. Superior ballistics and enough weight and velocity to take anything in the 48 states.

How accurate are your 270 & 300 WSMs? We spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars trying to improve the accuracy of our LR rifles. If either of these are shooters (under 1 MOA in my book), then you need look no further. The Win model 70 is a great action. The only reason to even look at a Rem 700 over other actions is the aftermarket parts. But you can still find plenty of stocks, triggers, etc. for the Win. Assuming both rifles are accurate, I would tend to lean towards the 270 WSM. The 300 WSM will hit harder, but lots of men have been taking elk with a regular Win 270 for years. The 270 WSM has the power to take down an elk at 800 yds. Like bowfishaz suggested, load your own using the 165 gr. Matrix VLD (it's not listed on their website, so you need to ask for it). As far as LR capabilities go for a given caliber, the two things I look at are: (1) How much wind deflection is there for this load at 600, 800. 1000 yds?; and (2) At what distance does the bullet drop below the magical 1,800 fps? Find a ballistic calculator: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/ballistics-programs-web-based-downloadable-9647/ and run both the 270 WSM with the 165 gr. bullet and the 300 WSM with any bullet you choose. For good measure, run a 7mm Rem Mag with a 180 gr, Berger. You may be surprised by the results. Both the 270 WSM and the 7mm Mag will outperform anything the 300 WSM can spit out. Your 300 WSM will hit harder, but it will not buck the wind as well - and beyond 400 - 500 yds. it is all about the wind. In all my research, only the 300 RUM has enough powder to move 210 gr. to 230 gr. projectiles fast enough to match the ballistics of the 7mm Rem Mag. The 300 Win Mag and 300 WSM can get close with a 210 Berger, but the 7mm still outshines to 30's. You will be launching a lighter bullet so shot placement will become more critical, but getting the bullet there is still job #1. Here is a link to an article written by Bryan Litz of Berger Bullets that addresses your problem in greater detail: http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/30-caliber-1.php

Just checked my CC activity. Two $13 charges in June.....and nothing but silence after that. It's like a broken record: ".......well, there's always next year".

6.5-06 AI with 26" barrel shooting a 165 gr. Matrix VLD @ 2,975 fps.

You seem to have your rig pretty well buttoned up. Any more dollars spent there would probably not yield the incremental improvements in accuracy you are looking for. Having an accurate rifle is the first obstacle to successful LR hunting/shooting. The second hurdle would be a decent scope with repeatable dial up and return to zero. The scope you are running is a bare minimum, but it will get the job done. Challenge number three is to absolutely know the range of your target. What kind of rangefinder are you using? To my mind, anything over 500 yds. requires a Swaro or a Leica 16. Both should be quite consistent out to 1000 yds. Even with these two, you still need to be careful when ranging. The divergence of their laser beams can be so wide that they may pick up another object other than your target and give you a false reading. Finally, the last stage is lots of experience with you rifle. This is why so many are pointing you in the direction of reloading. Once you have your reloading gear, your can make more accurate ammo for your rifle at roughly half the cost of store bought stuff. Developing your load and drop data (both on paper and out in the field) is only the first step. You then need to practice, practice, practice. Not at the range, but out in the real world. Learning to shoot prone, sitting, with a bi-pod, resting on your pack, etc. stretched out on the ground, over rocks and cactus. Shooting uphill, downhill and cross-canyon. Learning to shoot in all types and speeds/directions of wind. This is the only way you can learn you limits with this rifle. Know what can do and also what you cannot do with any assured consistency. Lots and lots of bullets down range. Remember the old adage: 'Beware the one gun man'.

I run two dogs with a Sport Dog system. I started them out as pups with the collars, so they have never known a time outdoors without them. When they hear the jangle of that buckle they go nuts. They can't wait to get them on because it means we are going on a walk/hike. These dogs hike with them daily to keep in shape. The pair of dogs I run are trained as coyote decoy dogs, so the equipment takes a bit of a beating. Mine have been used daily for three years now and still going strong. I bought Sport Dog simply because I can get a good deal on them. Can't speak about the other brands as I have no extended experience with them.

I have attended several RMEF banquets over the years. I did notice that a lot of the raffles were won by RMEF volunteers, but that was because they were the ones buying most of the raffle tickets. These guys support the cause with both their dollars and their time. The banquets were both fun and a great place to meet & visit with both guides and hunters.

hunt87 - I believe these were sold to olmos1010 yesterday.

It's a sales pitch, but it never hurts to listen. Beware the hard sell and just tell them no if it isn't a good fit for you.

Rifle is sold.

Traded into this rifle several months back from the original owner. I already have a custom rifle in 300 RUM so this rifle needs to find a new home where it will be used. Don't let the camo paint fool you: this is a BDL model and not the lower end SPS model. It is chambered in 300 Remington Ultra Magnum - an absolute hammer for any North American big game. The first owner claimed the rifle had less than 100 rounds down the tube. I had my gunsmith borescope the entire length of the barrel (especially the throat area) and we both believe the claim to be true. The throat shows only the faintest of fire cracking/checking lines, so there is a ton of life left in this barrel. The front lug area of the rifle appears to have been professionally bedded and a muzzle brake has been installed to tame the significant recoil generated by the 300 RUM. These two items alone will run almost $300 from any reputable gunsmith. Like all Remingtons, the trigger is atrocious. Either a trigger job or a swap-out would be the next item on my list for this rifle if I were to keep it. Even with the terrible trigger, I was still able to hold MOA with the two different loads that I tried. The wooden BDL stock reportedly suffered some scarring while rubbing against some metal in the back seat of a truck during a hunt. The original owner painted the stock with what appears to be Krylon paint in a tiger stripe camo pattern. Asking $625. Not looking for trades at this time. If interested, post or PM here on CWT. Or you can call or text me at 602-361-7191 with any questions you may have. This rifle has also been posted for sale on other forums/sites as well. UPDATE: Now listed for sale on gunbroker.com

I got to look at both the new Swaro 15x56 and the new Zeiss Conquest 15x56 side by side late last week at Outdoorsman. Comparison consisted of looking into dark tire bays down the street and at people on the mountain some mile and a half away. The edge clearly goes to the new Swaros ($2,500). But the Conquest ($1,600) wasn't too far behind. And at $900 less than the Swaros, the Conquest is the better buy. So if money is no object - choose the Swaros. If you are on a budget - then get the Conquest and don't look back.

Gaotsie, Keep us posted. I'm sure a lot of us would like to hear about your experience with Teludyne.

Come to Papa!

Although I have been through parts of this unit for fishing and camping trips, I've never hunted here. I have no idea what to expect or where to start looking. Help from any experienced hunters familiar with this area would be greatly appreciated. Not expecting you to give up your honey hole, just more general info like: Are the bulls still up in the highland forests & meadows, or down in the cedar & juniper? Are the bulls pretty busted up or in relatively good shape? Do they stay out later in the morning trying to put some fat on, or have they become secretive from all the pressure? What can I expect in terms of hunter pressure & bumping into others? Do I hunt the water tank in evening, the treeline at dawn, bedded elk in the canyons during the day? Usually snow on the ground? Condition of FS roads? How cold will it get? Will the elk be on eastern slopes warming up or quite comfortable? Are the elk back in the Wallow burn areas in a big way? The azgfd site mentions several places to hunt/look for elk, but doesn't mention if info is for early or late hunts. Most areas mentioned seem to be north of Hwy 260. Is this for real, or is it just a way to redirect hunters to elk herds that need to be reduced due to diminished carrying capacity of the habitat? Any insights from hunters with experience in this unit would be greatly appreciated.

Like most units, 5B will receive a lot of hunter pressure. And as AZwest16 advised, the picture will change completely come fall and then change again by the time your late hunt rolls around. If it were me, I would be hunting the north edge of Anderson Mesa. Focus on the juniper and pinion just off the top and on down to the wide open plains. Look in the deep canyons feeding out to the north. Lots of elk go there to escape the pressure.

I can't believe these are still here. I just sold my naked swaro 10x42's on here for same price. The addl. kit makes this fantastic deal for someone looking to upgrade their glass.

I must confess: I wrote several responses to the question above and then deleted them all. To be honest, I'm not sure quite how to respond. I suppose my first post could be viewed by some as coming from a fat slob who is too lazy to get out there and earn this info for himself. But I submit there is another possibility: a veteran hunter who has watched the number of tags and hunting pressure in units continue to increase over the years. Most of us here on CWT understand that there is no substitute for boot leather on the ground. We further know that the best intel is gathered in the weeks and months prior to the hunt. The best time to do research for my hunt would be from Sept. through Nov. learning the travel corridors, the water & food resources, the patterns and behavior these elk are exhibiting during this time of the year. Unfortunately, we live in AZ where the hunts are stacked on top of each other. In unit 1, there are no less than six elk hunts and one deer hunt scheduled for this fall. My hunt is the fifth one. I have every legal right to be out in those woods gathering my own research during the four previous hunts. In fact, you could argue I have a moral obligation to the elk as well. But I try to balance my need for good intel with that of staying out of the woods when others are trying to hunt. Those hunters value their tag as much as I value mine. They expect the same quality of hunt that I hope to get. Don't we all have stories about a stand or stalk that was blown by some inconsiderate hunter doing 'research' for his upcoming hunt during the middle of our own hunt? The more info I can gather from on line resources, the less chance I have of spoiling someone else's hunt. Yep, bro.....I try and do a lot of research.....which sometimes includes asking members for their general knowledge about an area.