KGAINES

That saw blade scale that they showed, tells me that they don't really know how to manage it for a consistant result.

From a mechanic that has to be one of the funniest things I have read, I couldn't even read it to my wife I was laughing so hard. Thanks for the Laugh.

Dick did it seem to you that commissioner Martin was siding with the hunters, I was sure she would be with herndrode and mclean on every issue, I was pleasantly surprised by her on the deer issues. Does anyone know what happened with the lion season, did the houndsmen get their proposal.

Doug we asked whether killing the does would change the study results at the ADA meeting and got basically the same answer, I just wish they would do the study and then make changes. But then again I can't say because I haven't read Russo's book.

Nice meeting you Dick, I wonder if thre turnout is what had them flustered. I wish we would have had a few hundred there, but then nothing would have gotten done because some of them seemed really confused.

Guys and Gals I didn't write down the numbers, but they cut some of the kaibab tags back, only 400 youth antlerless tags and they changed the stratified hunts that they were trying to structure for this year and based this years hunts on last years numbers with some increases. They also moved the archery deer back a week to start on the 24th of Aug. and end on sept. 13th. that was a vote of 4-1 with commissioner hernbrode voting against it, commissioner mclean also proposed that there be no reduction in antlerless tags in 12A west and to leave the number at 800, hernbrode seconded, commissioner Martin, Melton, and Golightly voted against it killing that proposal. The one thing I did get out of this one and others who were there I hope will share their opinion, but it really seemed to me that Commissioner Martin listened to the public about these topics. I left at the lunch break ( I had to get my kids ), so I don't know how the rest of the meeting went, but I can hope for the best on the rest of the proposals. I am basing this all on memory, someone else who was there and took notes might be more specific and correct me if I am wrong. Nice meeting you Dave, sorry I had to leave in kind of a hurry. Thanks to all that came.

Guys and Gals this was brought to my attention last night at the meeting and I know it will interest a lot of you. I guess there is discussion going on that they should ban all use of baits for hunting in AZ, supposedly they will ask for public input on this matter in the near future, and when they say baits the use of salt is also included, only salt that is established by a rancher could be hunted, any thing added by a hunter would be illegal. The whole reasoning behind this was that Coueswhitetail hunters are having great success using these tactics. I know this topic has had a lot of debate in the past, but I don't like the fact that the only reason behind it is hunter success, what is next banning the use of calls for elk, deer, and predators because it creates a higher success rate. It would work well for game and fish in one aspect, if there are lower success rates they can issue more tags creating more hunter opportunity with a lot less quality, but that is the way it seems to be headed. This is one we all need to watch out for. It allows for easy rule changes if hunters are split into groups, all hunters need to stick by each other, we all use different tactics, if they take they very rarely give back, I don't want to see archers against rifle hunters, stand hunters against spot and stalk, we need to support the guys running hounds since they are the most effective way out there now on the lions, we all have different methods and tactics and as long as they are legal they should be respected.

Whether it is ethical or not has been argued on this forum a few times. I would also watch out for questions about salt and baits on an azgfd survey.

I believe that it is under discussion at the dept. right now and they will ask for public input on it in the near future. As far as going to the meeting and speaking, I think if you wanted to you could get up there and state simply that you support the ADA, AES, DCA, or whatever organization you feel said how you felt, or you can get up there and say how you feel one way or another and let your voice be heard.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070416/ts_al...un_070416215712 It is very sad what happened in Virginia, and I feel for all affected by this. My condolences to the families and friends. After saying that they are already blaming guns, every time this happens someone blames the guns. When a murderer runs a car into a group of people they don't blame Chevrolet, when someone stabs someone they don't blame Buck, when someone strangles someone they don't blame the garrote, but if someone is shot lets blame Smith and Wesson. The psychos that do these crimes are the blame and if they would just kill them every time they catch them it would happen a lot less, not the second or third offense for a violent crime, the first strike you die. There would still be some crime, but it would slow down a lot. Quit blaming the weapon of choice and blame the individual the uses them.

God didn't write the constitution, men did. God wrote the ten commandments and we all know there is no way Moses could push them through congress. here are a few documents that wouldn't hurt for us all to read again. http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-...transcript.html http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-...transcript.html http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-...transcript.html

I would hate to live in a society where the only people with guns are the police, the military, and the criminals.

I thought I was blind, good find shortpants I never even looked until you mentioned it.

I am missing it, I know there is one or two just out of the picture on the right, because of the shadows, if you blow both pictures up and click from one to the other you can see it moving. I am not actually seeing one in the picture though.

Same here

It is kind of funny when the thought of taking deer tags to make money is raised, if there were 500 extra deer tags at lets say an average of 50.00 dollars each, I don't think that there would be a conspiracy to get 25,000 dollars out of the deer tags. If that is the case I wonder why some of these decisions are made, almost all of us say quality over quantity, the ADA survey said quality over quantity, even when talking to dept. people they say they are trying to maintain quality hunts around the state and still have hunter recruitment, the extra 500 people with tags are not going to equal the amount of people that complain about the over crowding, or it is too hot, or the hunt was too hard, they didn't see anything, or there are not as many deer as there used to be, and there are a lot more complaints that you will hear and they are all directed at the AZGFD, I don't think the 25,000 dollars is worth that. I use the numbers 500 and 50.00 as examples Up until a few years ago I didn't care, I put in every year waited for the results, I didn't worry about all of the political crap that drives everything, not just hunting, but everything, now I just want to ensure that my kids have the chances I had. It sucks that it seems like everything we do now is a fight, some we ask for, some we are thrown into, but it seems like every way we turn as hunters we are under attack and all we do is defend and counter. Get rid of the eaarly whitetail hunts in the northern units and move some of those tags back to Dec., don't kill the does unless you need to, and give the kids hunts that give them a good chance at success.

Thanks Amanda

They changed it after the uso deal I think.

You guys are insane, this can only get better.

What younghunter stated is what I was told is the probable solution, when I talked with Leonard Ordway today he stated that they were having a huge public backlash on this proposal. The elk season was adjusted apparently at a meeting as per archery elk hunters requests, and when they were told then that the seasons would overlap no one spoke up, so they went forward with it. The way he stated it they have received numerous calls and emails regarding this and the public is against it. He asked what my solution would be and I stated exactly as Christian did, move the deer and turkey seasons back a week, from what he said the commission would be made aware of the outcry and even he is expecting quite a few people at the meeting to express their displeasure with the overlap. I see no reason it can't be changed, hopefully the commissioners listen.

Congrats to you guys and your dogs, awesome story.

I also want to thank you Jim for your viewpoint and insight, Leonard Ordway was also very informative when I talked with him. At least in what I have heard there is a good possibility that the overlap can be fixed.

I believe they could move back all of those that were not set when the elk hunts were set. I don't know if any were set at that time, but I am sure jim or someone knows and will answer that question.

Jim I just spoke with Leonard and he told me about the meeting in Dec. that elk hunters wanted the archery season moved a week earlier, he said that at the meeting the overlap would occur and no one spoke up then. He said that he and the dept were very surprised at the outcry now, he also said that they are listening, and they would inform the commission of the publics response to the overlap, even those who do not show up at the meeting but are sending emails, letters, and messages. I would say this, that if they are listening it behooves us to leave emails and messages that are respectful and well thought out, including our own solution to these problems. The commission can change the hunt structures and they have listened a few times in the past. I want to thank Leonard for being very helpful and answering the questions I asked, I might not agree with him but he took the time to explain what they were working with.

The ADA will be meeting on next tuesday and I am sure this will be heavily discussed topic, as of right now the ADA as a whole has not stated its position on this that I know of. I know I am very disappointed in what is proposed, but that is my personal opinion.