Swivelhead

Hunted the Save and Lemco 10 years back. Owners were concerned then that they'd lose their land. It's a dang shame.

+1 Not a bad idea to pick up a scale to set drag resistance. Rule of thumb is 30 to 40 percent of the line strength. A sticky drag can also be an issue. "Park" your drag when storing your reels, i.e back off the drag when not in use. Hope you get a chance to land the line breakers.

All your questions are irrelevant. #1, you've got to acquire the tag. Unless you've got a health issue or KNOW you'll be unavailable during the month of December, it is imperative you apply for a sheep hunt every year. People who are 5 or 6 points off of max points literally stand no chance of making it to max points in a lifetime of applying. Roll the dice, apply for a sheep unit that historically has tags left in the 1-2 pass. When and if you ever draw, take out a line of credit, whatever it takes. The sheep bug bites hard.

As I recall there are 150+/- max point holders. My best guess (based on the G&F reports) is that 80+ can only apply for Rocky tags. The rest are applying for desert sheep. Figure another 5 years and max points for desert sheep should drop down 1 click. That guess also depends on what G&F does when the draw gets modified next year.

Picked up a few of this & that. I do realize it IS a donation but like the Powerball, we are buying the dream. Reality will come soon enough.

+1

Why not?

No need to join anything, getting good info 1st hand is the point. Internet hearsay is just that. Get informed and let the dept. and the commission know how you feel.

SCG = Sportsman Constituent Group. Anybody can go to any of their meetings. Anybody can join.

Got a set of these myself, brilliant image. Actually, breathtaking is a better description. Good luck with the sale.

Another issue that I've not heard comment on: What about people who don't have internet access? Offline constituents would be forced to be a member of something they cannot use in order to be able to surrender tags or acquire them. BTW, for the record, I am a fan of this new portal concept. Don't have a clue how I'll use it. On another note, G&F ought to dump the "club" name and the tiered membership for their new portal. Maybe AZ school kids should have a naming contest? Heck, I'll toss one out there, AZ Wildlife Collective? Anything's better than "club."

Mexico is a blast. Sure miss Tortuga, there are yellowtail there that will tear biceps.

Lance, apparently G&F has hired their own IT professionals to handle the draw, this new portal and the current website. It's all in house from here on out. The next draw cycle (spring 2015) will be conducted as usual but the new system should be in place for the 2015 elk/lope draw.

The scenario you describe concerning group apps is definitely an issue. A number of remedies were discussed at the meeting. One way to prevent chronic abuse of tag surrender by an applicant who is part of a group would be to reduce the BP's of the surrendering applicant to the lowest BP total of any member of the group app. i.e. A group app has 2 applicants, one has 3 points, the other has 12. The group gets drawn. The applicant with 12 points surrenders his tag. His bonus point total would drop to 3 points. A rule such as this should handle the problem.

Went to the meeting at G&F last night, FWIW, this is my observation: G&F will have a new portal that is modeled after social media. The intention is to help attract young people to the outdoor sports. I don't do social media so I don't really know how it will work. Apparently we can have our own personal page with all the web based G&F info available. The current website will remain. This portal will be available to all at no cost. I'll try and explain proposed options available via the new portal aka "club." Be aware, this is from memory (which is not so good). Level 1: Free, all current G&F web based services we are accustomed to. Your personal page will also have your current bonus points, current apps, etc. At this level of membership, you cannot surrender a tag. Level 2: Fee unknown at this time. This level of membership will allow 1 tag surrender (don't know if that is per draw cycle, year or lifetime). Level 2 will also include additional services that are bundled with this level of membership. Don't recall specifics on the services, none were noteworthy in my mind. Level 3: Fee unknown at this time. Unlimited tag surrender, priority access for surrendered permits, early draw result notification and an online subscription to AZ wildlife views. Additional services bundled at this level, none noteworthy. The Meeting: Lightly attended, approximately 10 people, four were representatives from various organizations. Scott Lavin did a presentation of the new portal and then requested input. Almost without exception, the public and organizations wanted unlimited (for any reason) tag surrender with bonus point retention and that club membership should not be a prerequisite. Commenters felt surrendering a tag was harmless to wildlife and department coffers. All felt that surrendered tags should go to "next in line" from the original draw. Group applications were discussed and scenarios where tag surrendering members of a group could scam the system. As with most meetings discussion went in different directions at times but tag surrender dominated the meeting, it IS the issue. Portal and online draw will be written and implemented in house. G&F has hired people to operate the system. Talked briefly to the IT guy at the meeting, he said the new online draw system will likely be in place early next year. Overall, I believe if enough concerned outdoorsmen respectfully communicate their concerns we will have the proper outcome on the tag surrender issue. Based on input at the meeting, unlimited surrender, bonus point retention, surrendered permits to "next in line" is the correct scenario. G&F is obviously looking for additional revenue, tag surrender is the bait. How we overcome what G&F sees as a revenue opportunity is the real issue. Five hundred re-issued tags at $150 (guess) would be 75K and a given. Twenty thousand level three memberships at $30 (another guess) is 600K has got to be the real prize. These numbers are likely way off. Even if the number was double or triple my projection it is my opinion that G&F should never sacrifice the integrity of tag allocation. Buy a license, apply for a hunt = your in! Whether your a laborer or a titan of industry, in AZ's draw we are all equal. AZGF has always been straight up with tag allocation, hopefully "membership" will not tarnish this reputation. I will send my opinion to the commissioners soon, I will ask them to find revenue elsewhere. Keep tag allocations in our state equal to all who apply.

Allen is right, the big bad wolf is not at the door. I encourage all to relax. Go to the meeting if you can, it will soothe your concerns. Scott Lavin is a professional and would really like to hear our concerns. Get informed and make contact with Scott and the commissioners. I will post my take on the meeting last night when I get time.

Going to the meeting tonight. Hope some of you can make it. Javihammer made an informative post on the AZ section of monster muleys. He posted a link to the minutes of prior commission meetings where this issue is discussed. A revealing read. AZ's permit allocation is about as fair as it can be. Surrendered permits should go to the "next in line" in the original draw, end of story. Sure would like to know who is driving this proposal, that in itself would be revealing.

This is an important issue, I strongly recommend all of you contact the commissioners with your take on this proposal. I will attend the meeting tonight. I'd like to learn more before I contact the commissioners with my opinion on the matter. This is likely the start of a dedicated hunter type program. Utah has such a program. As I recall Utah also has tons of auction tags. It would seem somebody wants the Utah model here in AZ. The SFW auction tag concept was soundly defeated here in AZ. Time to roll up the sleeves and defeat this proposed elitist hunter program in our state. Unfortunately, money talks. The commission and G&F will always listen to any proposal that brings $$$$$ to the table.

Knowing Wards Outfitters is based in Wilcox, I emailed them two years ago expressing interest in a crane hunt but got no response.

Mistreating Steeler fans is a wonderful pastime (one I rarely tire of) however this thread is not about that. Chuck Knoll and the teams he put on the field have never been surpassed. Those guys were double tough in a league that allowed "tough play." RIP Chuck Knoll.

MmmmOoooooo!

Really nice, congrats.

Sandhill cranes are tasty. Don't know a guide but after hunting them multiple times, I'd recommend hiring a guide. If I could find a guide (licensed) with a lease I'd be all over it.

Kind of unnerving. ALWAYS printed my app. till this year. Figured to save a tree. G&F could have put a disclaimer stating there would be no confirmation email. Grrrrrrr.

Good luck all.