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Thanks for the Support. Steve

Keep in mind that the Governor and staff have been sold that 2072 is an economic benefit to the State. This is not true since one Expo will put the other (ISE) expo out of business. The groups need to send emails along with sportsmen that AZSFW does not represent them. Also AZSFW is saying that their proposal will not affect the money already raised by the current Special Tag sales and the Arizona Big Game Super Raffle and last weekend at the ADA banquet it was clear that their are not a plethora of high bidders out their for more tags to flood the market. As always please be respectful yet tactful in your comments.

Newb The Arizona Elk Society and National Wild Turkey Federation have partnered for years to offer a youth mentored Turkey Camp in the area you are looking. The camp this year is planned for Colcord Ridge Campground in Unit 23. We hunt all the units you mentioned and 23. Currently 23 is a draw but the rest are over the counter. We provide all the food, seminars, give-a-ways for the kids and have G&F officers and experienced turkey hunters to help you and the kids. The mentors in camp will go out with the kids and help them harvest a turkey. For more info anyone can go to the AZGFD website and go to Outdoor Skills Hunter angler Heritage Workgroup for camps all over the state for kids. Steve email is you need more info and can't find it. stevec@arizonaelksociety.org

There are other issues that affect deer recruitment and you only have to look at areas like Unit 7 where all the fires burned like the Hockdeffer, White Hills and others just off of HWY 180. Also the R/C and 4 Bar Mesa in Unit 27. Habitat needs to be improved but you need fire to recruit forbs that deer eat. In both the unit7 area and R/C area the deer herds did great for about 5 years then started back into a decline. It is now time to burn again. The FS is working with G&F on a plan to reburn much of the area. I hunt in 23 and they have been doing some large controlled burns and I see more and more deer in the burn areas than ever. So drought is a factor, habitat is a factor, predation is a factor, Forest Service fire policy is a factor and the number of deer tags is a factor. Some the best increases in deer populations that I have seen first hand were areas where fire went through and then it rained shortly after. In these cases there was no predator control other than the fire chasing them off temporarily. The AES is part of a monitoring team for aspen issues for the Schulz and Wallow Fire so we will be seeing first hand how those areas do. Working with the AZGFD, Forest Service, ranchers and land owners in cooperation is what is needed. There is no answer that one group can come up with. I don't know if a group that says give us the money and we will fix it will ever work. That was the motto of SFW in Utah and it isn't working. Why even try that here? The most successful model is one where everyone benefits and can get along. AZSFW and AZSFWC would like all the groups to take a backseat, let them have the money, and watch them do it for us. They keep saying that sharing with the groups was part of their plan but they have never played with others well in the sandbox to date. Surely going to the legislature to get something without input from the Commission, AZGFD and groups is not cooperation. It is politics at its worst. It is not a good precedent to circumvent the people and groups you will have to work with in the future. It is a grab of the power and money so you won't have to provide any oversight. Steve

Baca National Wildlife Refuge – wolf update Recently there was a lot of chatter on the Internet relative to the potential for the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service to use wolves to help reduce the elk population on and around the Baca National Wildlife Refuge in southern Colorado. With the potential for some of these wolves to wander into Arizona this was a definite topic of interest to the Executive Board of the Arizona Elk Society. The concept of wolf introduction was raised in a planning document sent out by the Fish and Wildlife Service relative to management of the Baca NWR and surrounding areas in the San Luis Valley. The planning document provided four alternative management approaches for the area, one of which did include the potential for wolf introduction. The AES had sent a letter to the FWS about this issue, as did a huge number of sportsmen. The FWS heard the outcry and in a letter dated February 6, 2012 announced that they had no plans to introduce wolves. This is yet another example of how active, united sportsmen can influence wildlife management decisions. That said, it is important to keep up to date on these types of issues, which is why the AES actively used media tools like Face book and the AES website to let you know about important wildlife issues that affect the AES membership. With all the conservation issues that arise, I encourage you to check the website and our Face book site for news and updates. Thanks, Steve Clark, President Arizona Elk Society

Yes as long as the goals and agendas are the same. Even if a little different it should work to split the cost. The Arizona Elk Society does the same thing with a wildlife biologist that we use. We share the letters and info with other groups to make it easier for the other groups to comment. It works much better than a group speaking for all of us. The way it should work is to form a partnership that benefits each group and combines the message. The problem is when egos and agendas get in the way. Steve

Larry Part of the problem was that the Commissioners used the Departments Email News list to let their constituents, sportsmen, know of the Commissions position on legislation. Steve

See how this sounds Allen. The key is "what is the hidden agenda". Even if you have oversight, if you don't know the agenda of the group or principles in the group, then thinking you have oversight is useless. My thoughts are that we need to have lobbyist that will represent the group, the group also needs to communicate with it's members and the sportsmen that take the time to want to be informed. The lobbyist needs to keep the group informed on legislation that is important to the mission of the group. The group needs to discuss and formulate whether they support, are neutral, or oppose the legislation. The group then informs the lobbyist to represent the group at the legislature, this includes speaking the position of the group and maybe discussing issues with the legislators. At the legislature a person that is not a registered lobbyist cannot speak for a group. It is also important to involve everyone to log in and register their position on the issue separately. But to speak for a group at the Committee hearings we have to have a lobbyist. The problem I see is when the lobbyist is hired to run legislation for the group and then doesn't communicate with the group and the people they say they represent, but does communicate with the hidden agenda people. Many of the anti-hunting groups have agendas that they put on the table then they have a hidden agenda, most time the hidden agenda is a long term plan to chip away at their enemies. This is is the part that is hard to decipher, we need to make sure, if there is one, that the hidden agenda is what the populace wants. This may be confusing but I thought I would like to see if it is a start. Steve

I find it interesting that the Conservation tags in Utah go to 9 different groups and the Expo tags go to SFW and still everyone is focused on SFW. Why not go after the other eight groups? The Expo tags are actually available to any groups, unlike Arizona's tag grab, that wants to put on a banquet, including any out of state groups. The tags were designed to be used for an economic benefit to the State of Utah. SFW and MDF teamed up because SFW couldn't put on an expo by themselves. In the beginning there were other groups in that partnership but most of them didn't like the heat that SFW caused. Now we are here in AZ talking about keeping the Special Deer tag in Arizona. What about the other tags that are sold out of state? The Commission feels that the out of state groups not only partner in state with projects and funnel money raised here back into Arizona but that there are other venues out of state that will bring top dollar for the tag. Remember that NO-ONE receives any $$$s from the auctioning of the AZ Special Tags. 100% of that money goes back to AZGFD. What we do get is the privilege to be involved in the distribution of that money for projects that benefit the species that the tag is good for. SFW does not get a tag and has no say in how the money is spent. I have talked to many Utah Sportsmen about this issue and I have found none that like the way it is up there. The thing that is interesting to me is that everyone of them only talks about SFW. I don't like the way that SFW went about doing what they have done in Utah and other states.I am one of the people that is glad that sportsmen of Arizona have risen up to defend something they think is wrong. I am also one of the people that like George from Yuma would like to find out where we go from here. It seems like when something like this issue with the tags comes up it temporarily polarizes Arizona Sportsmen and then all the sportsmen go back into the woods and wait for something to happen before they come together again. Our hunting heritage is constantly under attack and we need to get organized so we can be a constant force of action on each and every issue. It doesn't take much time or energy but it seems to be hard to accomplish. It seems that for most people hunting is not a team sport so I understand the individualism of the sport. Steve

The amendment was pulled and the bill was passed through the Committee. Steve

Ok, I don't usually post on these types of threads, mainly because I don't have the time but here it goes. I thought I would provide some clarity to the Utah Tag Program. As far as the Utah Convention (Expo) tags a raffle ticket buyer can only purchase one ticket for each tag. Here are the links to the statutes for the tags. Notice that there are two types of tags in Utah. 1. Conservation tags given to many, I repeat many, organizations throughout Utah. This option splits the money 10% to the group, 60% to the Utah DNR to be used for habitat projects coordinated with the groups, and 30% to the Utah DNR to be used for admin of the programs. #2. Wildlife Convention Tags, given to a single organization for a convention, Expo, to draw people to the expo. The group can be any group that wants to put on an expo that will draw more than 10,000 people. The money from this set of tags is designated for purposes of generating revenue to fund wildlife conservation activities and attracting a regional or national wildlife convention to Utah. I have included links to the statutes and a Utah Legislative Auditor Generals report on some of the tags. Conservation Tags Convention Tags Auditor Repot

The Arizona Elk Society has been involved in numerous meetings that include logging companies down to small mom and pop start ups coming on line to use the lumber not only from the fire but also lumber from the 4 Forest Restoration Initiative. One of the last meetings was in Springerville and the USFS with other funding providers were on hand to help many of these companies apply for grants to get the new businesses on line. Many are small mills, others are wood stove pellet making businesses. The 4FRI has a plan to log up to 2 million acres of Pine Forests in Arizona. The Arizona Elk Society has a wildlife biologist on staff that attends all the meetings to make sure that the wildlife habitat interests of the AES and Arizona Sportsmen are considered in the planning. Another note would be that many of the Environmental groups are at the table and have publicly supported the plan. It is still in the planning process but the projects have already started. One difference tot he Rodeo/Chedeski is that most of the RC burned on Tribal land and was immediately logged to the benefit of the tribes. All one needs to do is look at the habitat that it created and wonder why the USFS can't get anything done in an efficient time frame to make money off the logging. The USFS is constantly looking for $$$$s but can't get anything done the environmental constantly suing them. Fortunately they are working close with them on the 4FRI and so far it is going well. It is not just smoke and mirrors since they have written in support of the plan. Not that they can be trusted but at least the USFS is trying to work with them. The point of this note is to let you know that if the stars align there are some great plans being developed. The 4FRI is a 20 year plan to log at least 50,000 acres a year. There is a lot of info on it on the USFS website and some on the AES website under issues. Steve

Here is a link from Ben, a blogger, to his blog and article on the HAHWG meeting. It is always a good feeling to participate in these meetings with groups that have the interest and willingness to introduce kids and newcomers to hunting, fishing, trapping and the outdoors. We can turn the tide! AZWANDERINGS

The ARIZONA ELK SOCIETY is currently working on our comments for the Tonto NF. This post is an effort to reach out to Sportsmen and let you know what the AES is working on and see if you have any comments we need to consider. You can comment yourself and it would be good for you to do it. Any person or organization that comments will be able to appeal later, if you didn't comment you can't appeal the decision. Last time I tried the links were not working but they were trying to fix them. 30-day comment period begins, for the Tonto National Forest, Travel Management Plan trail closures and environmental impact assessment. The email: http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...LT2_072203.pdf Here is information to provide comments via email, internet, phone, and other information including maps. http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/fs-usda-po...?project=28967 Their website posting: http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tonto/news-events/?cid=STELPRDB5346557 Direct link to document page: http://data.ecosystem-management.org/nepaweb/fs-usda-pop.php?project=28967 OBTW: "Only those who provide comment or otherwise express interest in the proposed action during the comment period will be eligible to appeal. "

Tom the fact that WMAT did thin and log and that that brought the fire to the ground where it could be stopped was an important one. The Arizona Elk Society and other organizations in cooperation with the AZGFD and USFS also funded projects on the outskirts of Eagar to thin the forest years ago. That was the same results. The fire went to the ground and the firefighters could stop it.

In response to the last issue on this forum the Arizona Elk Society would like to let Sportsmen of Arizona know some of the issues we are working on. As Sportsmen these are issues that the AES Board has given direction to be involved in to make sure our members collective voices are heard. We do a great job of letting our membership know about these issues but don't have an outreach program for the public. We don't profess to speak for anyone except the AES Board and members. The AES takes a lot of time to talk to all parties that are affected by the issue and then formulate our response. The issues of concern are not only commented on by the AES but many times we have a seat at the table for the issue. By having a representative at the table we can make sure that wildlife concerns are being taken into consideration. The AES works hard to use biology, science and social input as drivers of our positions. Others ways we reach out to the public is through social media, Facebook, Twitter and our website. On the website we always have the last four issues of our members magazine, The Tracker, for anyone to read. Please take the time to learn about what we represent and consider supporting the Arizona Elk Society. We are a group of normal everyday sportsmen putting our time and energy into making sure sportsmen are part of the solution to issues that affect us. ARIZONA ELK SOCIETY WORKING FOR SPORTSMEN: The Four Forest Initiative, more popularly known as the 4-FRI project involves the four forests in Arizona with large stands of ponderosa pine and will implement projects that treat huge tracts of forested land to reduce tree density. One important thing to remember about forest fires is that to burn, they need fuel and oxygen. If we can restore fuel loads and tree densities to more closely mimic pre-settlement conditions, the risk of stand-converting fires such as the Rodeo-Chediski and Wallow fires will be greatly reduced. One of the great features of the 4-FRI project is the high level of public involvement that the resource management agencies have allowed. There are several working groups planning different elements of this forest health project. The Arizona Elk Society has a member on the Stakeholders group, the group that is actively helping the agencies develop a plan that can be implemented quickly and in a fashion that derives the greatest benefit to forests and for the people and animals that depend on healthy forests. One of the very important features of 4-FRI is that it blends many different sciences into a single approach to restore forest health. Silviculturists have looked at tree size and density and identified those portions of the forest where tree conditions are most prone to extreme fire behavior. Fire ecologists have used their latest tools to determine where fires would be most destructive and when blended together, the ponderosa pine stands that are at greatest risk of a Wallow-type fire are identified. Mechanical thinning and management fires are two of the primary tools that will be used to make the forest a better and safer place. To begin to make progress, the Forest Service have several approaches in place to begin to make Arizona forests healthier and less fire prone.

The Arizona Elk Society is working on our comments and we should be able to post these so you have some points of discussion with out reading through all the data. A couple of quick ones to note, no big game retrieval or BGR limited to 200 yards off a road. Designated camping along side the roads only a car width. In general the road closures in Elk Habitat aren't too restrictive as we know now. OHV crowd has a concern about the lack of trails designated for just OHV. Steve

The Arizona Elk Society Banquet is March 24, 2012 at the Mesa Convention Center. Tons of great donations coming in, hunts, guns, hunting equipment, Lab puppy, original paintings, bronzes and more rifles. Ticket are now on sale on the website www.arizonaelksociety.org. Four (4) Arizona Special Commissioners Big Game Tags will be auctioned off at the Banquet, Elk, Antelope, Buffalo and Turkey. Ticket prices are the same as last year and we added some more free raffle tickets to the reserved tables (8 seats). Check it out and get your tickets.

Jerry Wieirs is a member of the Arizona Elk Society and many other organizations here in Arizona. This legislation is being pushed by Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife. The Arizona Elk Society is not involved in this legislation at all. Steve Clark, President, Arizona Elk Society

SOLD

Mark There are a lot of groups that could use some help in finding volunteers to mentor kids. The Arizona Elk Society teams up with the NWTF in April to mentor new hunters on the turkey hunt in Unit 23. AES also has a large camp in Unit 6A for Junior elk hunters and we always have new kids with their parents that need help. Lots of javelina camps, predator camps, deer camps and more. Their are groups like Hunt of a Lifetime that needs mentors for their kids. You can go to the AZGFD website and see about 30 camps that many groups put on every year to introduce kids to hunting and could use some help. Just click on the GET OUTSIDE link on the home page. AZGFD had a new division that help organize groups to introduce kids to hunting. There are a lot more kids than people realize that are interested in learning about hunting and the outdoors. If we can find the volunteers we could move mountains. Thanks for all you do. Steve

I was elk hunting and glassed up a few bears. This is a picture of a bear scat that I came across in the woods. I have hunted bears and spent time in Black bear and grizzly bear areas. This is the largest Black Bear Scat I have ever come across. That is a size 14 boot in the picture. For you bear experts,Is this from a large bear? There was some very large piles in the area too.

Every wildlife habitat project and especially water tank rebuilds and new construction has to be arch. cleared before the project can proceed. One of the two largest delays and expenses of these type of projects is arch. clearances. Maybe you should see if that is why they hired someone if that is what they did. Every year there are many projects that don't even make it off the drawing board even though there is money available. up until now the FS used their Arch. people but they are way behind. There is millions of dollars that could be used from grants for habitat work for wildlife that isn't used because of one reason or another. If the arch. clearances and NEPA is not done then the projects can't proceed.

After a very successful Slate Lakes Project in May the AES is gearing up for the next work project weekend after next. June 11 & 12 near Big Lake. Check out the flyer and stop by if you can. Great food and give back to wildlife. Looking for something to do in the Cool Country of Eastern Arizona near Big Lake. On the weekend of June 11 & 12 the Arizona Elk Society will be hosting a Volunteer Work Project South of Eagar, AZ. near Crescent Lake. This year volunteers will be restoring springs, mending fence around riparian areas and removing unneeded fence in the woods. All of these projects are designed to benefit Elk and other wildlife in our Forests. The Arizona Elk Society will be providing all the meals at a great camp near the work project. The Camp site is on the north side of Rudd Knoll 6 miles NE of the junction of Highway 273 and 261 (Crescent Lake) on the east side of Highway 261. From Eager-Springerville area head west on Highway 260 3+-miles to Highway 261 south. Go 15+- miles to Rudd Knoll. Look for Arizona Elk Society signs. Please RSVP to Tom Schorr, tomschorr@arizonaelksociety.org. For more information and other projects and events of the Arizona Elk Society visit our website at www.arizonaelksociety.org.

Due to this weekend being Mother's Day weekend and other factors we have decided to reschedule this project. Check out the Unit 7E Project next weekend on at www.arizonaelksociety.org. Thanks