GreyGhost85

I think 180-190? Cant remember.

Any of you guys saying conserve and protect and sfw are different must think we are all just a bunch of deplorables. A quick search shows they have near identical board members and interests. Conserve and protect is just a sorry, BS attempt to fool the public into thinking it is a different group. Isnt Sneaky Pete the president of both? SMH.

Utah was screwed by the Utah chapter of SFW.

For all of us that didn't draw elk tags again, here is something to help get focused on coues again. My dad killed this buck in archery season (full velvet) so i know the score. I am interested to see what people might think he scores. these are not the best pics, but he didn't show up very often. For the few of you that know the score, don't let the cat out of the bag

I have already seen enough contradiction between Sneaky Pete and his supporters and us simple folk that i know this is a bad deal. Nothing different than the last run they had at our tags.

**Fixed it We need another perpetual war like we need SFW managing our wildlife

Looking at the AZ elk society page, looks like HSUS had to pull out because of losing their leadership due to sexual scandals? What did Conserve and Protect do with the $250,000? Hire a couple of underage hookers?

Aaaannnd again the G&F can't raise ANY money for political purposes.So, how is the g&f donating these tags and receiving money in return any different? If the money raised by raffle/auction tags goes back to g&f? How is that any different? If the people that are for this BS tag grab werent so condescending they would have a better chance. All the guys that are so for it act like us opposed are just a bunch of slack jawed, uneducated hillbillies that dont know what is good for us. Heres a box of crayons. Spell it out. Maybe well be able to make some sense out of it now

The only thing that will come from this is the rich will line their pockets with tags and the executives will line their pockets with money. I know we are beating a dead horse but ask the 99% of Utah hunters how they feel about an identical situation. Like we have said, G&F issues 100,000+ tags a year. You figure there have to be 500,000 applications to receive those tags. Add a $5-$10 conservation fee per application dedicated to the cause and it would raise far more money than these auction/raffle tags will. Sneaky Pete saying that that wouldnt raise the necessary funds is a flat out lie. Also saying that he doesnt want to place a financial burden on all hunters is a flat out lie. An extra $5-$10 would not reduce the amount of applicants by any measurable amount.

it was already posted about this morning but i feel like a lot of people are missing it due to the title. http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/79143-sportsmans-input-sought-by-conserveandprotectazorg-unit-wide-raffle-and-auction-tags/ Basically, SFW disguised under a new name had a meeting last night at Cabelas. The agenda was to push for a tag raffle/auction again. I listened to most of it. A quick rundown is they are taking credit for putting an end to the HSUS campaign that was trying to stop cat hunting in Arizona. They claim the intent of the new tag grab would be to "fund their fight" against HSUS next time they try to make another run at cat hunting. It is plain and simple. Rich guys are having a run at our tags again and are trying to push the Utah model to Arizona once more. The scary thing is,this time it looks they have strong support from AZGFD. Get the word out folks. this one REALLY matters

Jay, i have for the most part been a supporter of what you do. You say you are undecided as of now, but the interview proves indifferently. You pitched that boy nothing but softballs and did not ask any opposing questions at all. You defended him and his “cause” thoroughly. This guy is a snake and a lackey of Peay, Hamberlin, Gallo and Meyer. Nothing more. He takes credit for stopping HSUS but will not say how or what they did. All he says is they “worked in the shadows”, which is probably true because that’s how they get their initiative passed is by “working in the shadows”.

Well, i listened to the new podcast on my drive home. Not impressed. And they changed the time of tonights meeting to an hour earlier, which prevents sportsmen from attending and voicing their concerns. Jay and Pete really made sure to pound the point home that this is a different group than who tried to push it last time, but it is not. Both organizations have links to eachother on their websites. I think Pete is even president of both of them? He also flat out lied and said the tag grab would bring in far more money than a stamp and they dont want to place financial burden on hunters. Tag/license/application fees increase every year anyways, whats another $5. There are 115,000 tags in arizona each year, so it is safe to say there are 500,000+ applications. Adding just $5 to each application would raise 2.5 million in the first year, $10 would raise 5 million. Also, people are saying that G&F legally cant defend themselves when Pete is saying the money raised will go straight to a G&F committee so they can defend sportsmen? Im not drinking that kool-aid

That is also enshrined in Title 17 and would take the legislature to change it. BUT... it would have to allocate proceeds to some other organization because G&F would still NOT BE ABLE TO GET INVOLVED IN POLITICAL ISSUES. How are the tags the are speaking of different than current super raffle and auction tags? Not stirring the pot, i honestly wouldn't know

They WILL auction off extra high quality tags. How much money would a regular ( non rut elk, south of the ditch deer, etc) tag bring in at auction? not much. How much money would raffles bring in if people could only buy one ticket? not much. He said in the meeting that tags WOULD HAVE TO come out of the already allotted tags for specific hunts, because other wise it would throw off the G&F's management objectives. Here's a thought, what if "X" donation amount to the fund gave people an extra bonus point, with a max of 1? possibly an option to buy another after 5 years or so, or when they get drawn? seems like there are definitely other ways to raise money, without getting into lawsuits with the G&F not being able to spend money on politics and all. what about throwing the 100-150 tags they speak of in a totally separate drawing with those funds going towards "education". I'm not nearly as opposed to their agenda if no tags are auctioned. even if they are all raffled with let's say a cap of 10 tickets per person. I'm all about paying extra money or donating to the fight, but i am 100% against more auction tags than we already have, and i do agree with the auction tag structure as it stands.

the "education" term they are throwing around is BS. When people hear education, they think of kids sitting in classrooms and it tugs on their heart strings. what they mean is educating the public on HSUS and other issues

Thanks Jay, for bringing this to light for all of us that were uninformed. I hope my below questions do not offend because they are not aimed to. i feel like these will be questions ALL of us want answers to 1). ask him to be honest with tag numbers they are talking about. saying they are only asking for 100-150 when AZ issues 150,000 doesn't sound bad but we all know those 100-150 will be PREMIUM tags and 100-150 will turn in to 1000-1500 over the next few years 2). what percentage of tags will go to auction? why auction any tags? putting a "highest bidder" price on an animals head sours both hunters and non-hunters alike 3). why should we trust an organization that tried to back-door us on tags a few years ago? 4). who are the people prepared to write million dollar checks if that passes? what would motivate someone to write a million dollar check on this subject, ONLY if it passes? If they were true conservationists, why would they write big checks when the money is already rolling in from said raffles/auctions? 5). what people are involved with it this time that were involved last time? 6). why are they starting this under a different organization's name that they tried from last time? it is the same people after all. 7). as we've been stating, why not introduce a "stamp" or something similar that goes directly to that cause? a $10-$20 stamp purchased by each licensed hunter would raise more money than what they are proposing anyways 8). will the number of raffle tickets one can purchase be capped? 9). could one person buy multiple tags for the same species? 10). Why should we trust this?

If a wolf wearing a sheep's skin bites you, then comes back a few years later wearing a different skin, would you trust it? No, it is still a the same wolf. the people pushing this agenda are 100% the same folks that tried to pass it last time. Do you think their agenda has changed? how about making people buy a "conservation" or "habitat stamp" like a lot of states do? that would be a separate fund.

More than average joe can afford. I think they average 10-30k in Utah if i had to guess

Doesn’t matter if it’s 1 tag. As soon as it passes, the floodgates will open. Unit 9,10,23,1 early rifle hunts will have single digit tag numbers in the public drae. Forget about sheep tags, forget about antelope tags, forget about strip tags. If this passes, those tags will be raffled and auctioned. They don’t want standard tags, they want a large percentage of the coveted tags. Ask working Joe that lives in Utah how much they like it.

I'm sure it will be a deluxe, 5-star retreat funded by peas, gallo, hamberlin, meyer, etc. in the meeting did anyone notice the part where he mentioned they have people on board capable of writing "million dollar checks" that they expect to get donations from? if that doesn't smell funny, what does?

Somebody post up the emails of everyone we need to contact please

If they were actually worried about raising money for a cause, a $3-$5 price increase on licenses, dedicated to their cause would give them the money they are asking for. This is simply tag grab, once again. The scary thing about it this time, is it sounds like the G&F commissioner is on their side.

Azsfw and conserve and protect are the same outfit. The same people are trying to pull the same bs, just under a different name. I listened to most of it on my way to work. They are trying to say that they beat the HSUS campaign and this would raise the money they need to beat it next time it comes across. What a joke. They wont say how many tags they want to auction/raffle but hint at 100-150. What people need to realize is that if/when this passes they will be able to change the amount of tags. Shut this down. Look what it did to Utah. This is nothing more than a way for rich guys to buy more of our tags. Who is on the executive board of conserve and protect? I guarantee the names are very similar to the big money guys that are repeat buyers of auction tags.

Dog chews, furniture/decor and ground up and turned into d!ck pills is what theyre used for.

So, i do not know the score of this buck, much to my dismay. i spent more time than i would like to admit trying to get an arrow in him. He's probably the coolest buck i've ever had on camera. These pics are from a couple years ago. I think he came in a couple times last year, but it looks like he lost the double main beam and digressed a lot. Basically a big, gnarly 2-point with a couple kickers now. I am just curious to know what everyone thinks he would score. He's a really tough one to judge. I'll try to find pics of the buck that i think is him now