GreyGhost85

So what I gather, your only concern is putting primo tags in your children's hands? You stand on your soapbox preaching about the flaws in the system when you 100% take advantage of the all the flaws and loopholes in the system. Do you not see the irony here? I for one would be an advocate of eliminating bonus points because they do not provide any substantial advantage at this point. Would you like to eliminate bonus points for the same reason, or simply for the fact that statistically the odds of putting more primo tags in your kid's hands would increase if bonus points went away? How has someone who has put tens of thousands of dollars into the system and conservation (be it through licenses, tags, application fees or Pittman Robertson)no more deserving of a primo tag than a 10 year old kid? For me a perfect system would have some of the following "rules". Must apply for 10 years before your name even goes into the hat for sheep, bison and rifle antelope. Must sit out for X years after drawing certain tags. Point guard is eliminated, party applications do not average but take the lowest point holder's points. With these 3 things, there would start to be substantial movements in the bonus point pool. Watching old men die before they get a tag they've been trying to draw their whole life while a 10 year old draws the same tag and has no appreciation or understanding of it's value makes me lose sleep at night. If it does not do the same for any self labeled conservationist, you oughta reconsider where you draw the line.

So, from what I gather, the system is broken but you will continue to take advantage of the broken system until the broken system is fixed? Without point guard, there will be next to zero donated tags. You do not agree with point guard but will continue to reap it's benefits? Nobody deserves glory tags except that people who are "qualified" to receive them? Quite the conundrum you're caught in. The biggest org in Arizona does NOT do it correctly. Allotting 5 glory tags to one person in a year, regardless of their medical condition is not ok.

Meateater, like you mentioned who was able to roll that into purchasing first lite, FHF and Phelps game calls and now trying to acquire Weatherby. Backcountry Hunters and Anglers biggest donor is the Chernin Group as well. What are the major products you see being pimped out by the new age hunters? they all wear first lite and want to talk about attending BHA pint night, "harvesting" game and "conservationing". The pages of their Meateater cookbook are stuck together like the pages on a kid's 1992 penthouse.

I agree with most of what you said except for the part that is bold as it is again a contradiction. I do like the idea of donated tags being able to allocated to people with certain, life altering disabilities but those tags should NOT be able to be allocated to whoever the certain group decides. What I do not like is how the tag donation system is being taken advantage of, much like crossbow permits. There are a few "disabled" kids (I know I'll get some backlash here) that have been donated upwards of 10 primo tags in a couple year period. With your statement above, how do these select few individuals receive enough tags in a couple years to achieve their AZ Big 10 at what, 16 years old? It also raises an eyebrow that these individuals come from very powerful or wealthy families. If I had a child that could benefit from these tags, much like you do, I would be appalled to see what is going on. If nobody deserves a tag more than the next, why are certain individuals exempt from that statement? If anyone thinks that money is not exchanged in getting these high value tags (sheep, strip, antelope, bison, etc.) in the "right" hands they need to look a little deeper.

Here's a conspiracy theory....the biggest "hunting" and "conservation" "influencers" on social media are being bought out or funded by the Chernin Group and their content (which is a HUGE reason for the "new age" hunters we are now getting) is constantly taking more steps left and their message is starting to sound more like socialism. hmmmmmmm

.......patiently waiting for the g&f apologists to join

Interesting opinion coming from someone who has benefited so much from two things they are advocating against on this thread. Point guard, which equals donated tags and "deserving" people receiving high value hunts year in and year out. If nobody "deserves" a high value tag, put the "donated" tags back into the pot and they go next in line.

i've drawn 4 late bull tags in 26 years of applying. missed a couple years of applying for antelope when I was in college. I have literally never drawn a tag that I wasn't in the max pool for.

Antelope BP dad 27, me 24BP, Brother 24BP.

Throw those wheels on offerup or craigslist and make some money. Lots of people want them and they go for a pretty good price

Although the numbers increase in NR vs Resident for 2018-2020 is about the same (+857 res and +991 Non-Res) NR tags are increasing at 10x the rate as RES (32% vs 3.2%). For arguments sake, can we all agree that selling 29,589 OTC deer tags in 2020 WITHOUT any kind of harvest reporting is an issue? How can you issue that amount of tags without having any idea what the impact is? Success rates have to be way higher now than they were when these hunts were designed. People are better at hunting, spend more time in the field, hunt harder and spend way more money on hunting gear now than ever before. All of those things drastically increase your odds of killing animals. The Arizona model has not changed much since probably the late 90's/early 2000's and is built around banking that people will continue to have low success rates. They do not want to have mandatory harvest reporting for the simple fact that they will not be able to sell as many tags because the statistics will show a tremendous jump in harvest numbers. It is a huge predicament for us hunters here. I for one LOVE that I can hunt deer every year in Arizona but at the same time, I do miss the days of strong deer populations, more mature bucks and lower pressure. You can't have your cake and eat it too I guess but sticking your head in the sand when there is an obvious issue doesn't help.

they could probably keep OTC coues as unlimited but make mule deer a draw. Unfortunately WHEN they do make the change it'll likely cover both species. In my opinion, coues populations do not tend to fluctuate as much as mule deer and i really doubt if archery hunters really make much impact on their population. Mulies are also a lot more susceptible to being killed with a bow. I personally have stopped archery hunting in January for 3-4 years now. i don't enjoy rubbing elbows with a million other people and the areas i prefer to hunt have been terrible in January for quite some time. August archery has been much more enjoyable. NR's have more to hunt in their neck of the woods that time of year.

i agree that they need to do something to limit the NR OTC tags but if the numbers that flatlander produced a while back are correct, the larger issue is the amount of resident archery hunters. The first step for G&F is mandatory harvest reporting. there is absolutely no way for them to have an accurate idea of how many deer are actually being killed every year. Success rates on rifle hunts have likely skyrocketed in the last 10 years. Success rates for archery deer have probably largely stayed the same but the amount of deer killed by archery hunters has likely skyrocketed as well

I’ll take the last box. Pm incoming

Make them update their portals they said.....it’ll be better they said......just when we thought they FINALLY had the draw process figured out

#metoo

That is a disgusting animal. I do like watching Rand Paul light him up though. 20 years ago that pervert tranny woulda been thrown in prison for even suggesting it

I’ll take it. Can pick it up tomorrow. I live real close to you

What is even more disgusting is in the video they lead you to believe it is some mass murderer killing 37 people for the first 1:25 before they even mention a horse

Way more deer and elk died of drought because the horses suck the tanks dry and run them off.

Why is there a limit on stripers?

I would definitely NOT shoot an expandable, especially a rage with a setup that has such little energy. You might be in bad shape if you center punch a rib. I have a video of my friend bouncing a rage off of an 80lb corsican ram at 45 yards. He was shooting a 70lb bow and 400gn arrow at probably around 300fps. Some people have good luck with them on elk but they are likely shooting heavy or fast setups. I’ve seen a lot of expandables fail on elk. Center punching a rib is usually where the failure starts. Do not take offense to this but my GF shoots what is likely a similar setup but less poundage. I have her shooting black eagle 400’s with a 50gn brass insert and a 125 2-blade broadhead. I would feel pretty good about it on an elk. If you don’t want to spend a bunch of money, i would look at doing the same. Keep your arrows, use a brass insert and a solid 125gn head.

Man, i just spent twice that on a case of crappy shells.

Pm sent

Good lookin out man! I got a couple boxes