bchoitz

Ernesto, Maybe you don't win the biggest (or smallest) buck contest, but you win the best story contest. Congratulations and happy thanksgiving. The Lord certianly is good to us. And thanks for saving those big bucks for the December hunt. Bret

Actually my question was for "OLD" Mexico, not New Mexico. I'll be in area 35B in December. And I don't think I'll be chasing anything down past that fence, but it very well could happen. Sure enough, if I do it I'll see the federales. Bret

With further checking I agree it is allowed to operate a vehicle off-road on state trust lands to retirieve legally taken big game. This is from the AzGame&Fish site: State Trust Lands: Hunting and fishing on State Trust land is allowed with a valid Arizona hunting and/or fishing license. A person may utilize a vehicle on- or off-road to retrieve a legally taken big game animal. Use good judgment in the case of driving off-road to retrieve an animal. If the ground is wet, and driving off-road will cause damage such as ruts, please consider retrieving the animal by another means. Remember that just because you are following a set of vehicle tracks, it does not necessarily mean it is a road. All other off-road activity is prohibited. I sure wish I could find this information on the State Trust Land site. Now what if my deer crosses the fence into Mexico? Bret

It seems to depend upon where you are. This information is from the Coconino National forest website: "In terms of using your ATV or vehicle for game retrieval it is your responsibility to obey by posted restrictions, such as any cross-country travel closures as they are signed on the ground. Information on these areas is available at all three Forest Service offices in Flagstaff. Where cross-country motorized travel is allowed we require that people ride safely and responsibly and attempt to avoid causing any damage to the landscape including ruts and damage to vegetation. " Clear as Mud huh? It is my basic understanding that it is legal in the forest unless it is a wilderness area, or a road closure "quiet" area such as the Pine Grove seasonal closure in 6A, or the year round closure of Mormon lake and Lake Mary (upper and lower). It appears to be illegal on State Trust lands as well. I just love Google! FWIW, I used a pack frame for my son's elk last year. Bret

Man I wish I had a brother that would buy me a gun! That's awful nice of you! Both are based on the .308 necked down, both hold about the same amount of powder, and will produce very similar amounts of recoil. Basically, each will work great for deer, and good for elk, so it really comes down to preference and availability. I believe the .260 will be easier to get. Several years ago I purchased a 7MM-08 for my wife. After waiting for the gun shop to receive the order for 4 months, I finally gave up and got a .308 (this was before the .260 Rem was available.) As you handload, you know that availability of ammo will not be your biggest concern, so take your pick. Also, remember that the lighter the rifle, the greater the felt recoil will be. Or you could let your brother decide. Bret

Really nice Buck! IS there a story to go with it? Watch out for the tag police Bret

Nice bull, I am assuming your getting him mounted? Should look good, and don't remove that "abnormal" point! Personally I think any elk with more than 6 points is "abnormal" because I normally don't see anything bigger than 6x6. He's a beauty in my book. Bret

Maybe they should use those cards to track individual hunter success rates, and those that never get an animal anyway should be issued a tag every year, and those that always get an animal should be given tags only every 3 or 4 years. [Really I'm kidding here!] Maybe not, but I don't think they should make it mandatory to fill out the survey cards. I would think that most hunters would return them anyway, and I think that people are less likely to be honest when the reply is traceable to them. I think that given the resources the department has, the cards that get returned are adequate to determine hunter success rates, and those units that require more close scrutiny such as the Kiabab have check-in stations for successful hunters. Still, I am sure there are some hunters who do not remember to check in thier successful harvests. This goes for bear, cat, etc... Short of rounding up all the animals in a given area and counting each animal or tagging them, you can never really get an accurate count, but the methods used seem accurate enough given that geat herds are not starving in the winter. What would be better is to remove cattle from the national forests and allow the deer and elk herds to expand the carrying capacity of the range. I guess I'll keep sending in my survey cards, answer them honestly, and not worry too much about what others do with their cards. Bret

I'll agree with Recurveman, you could be at any stage at any given time. Last year I applied for my usual hunts. After 9 years of applying for an elk tag in Arizona I finally got the tag! A November bull hunt. And shock of all shocks, my son actually got drawn for the 6A jr cow hunt as well. 2 trips for elk in the same year! In September my son finally shot his first big game animal after several trips into the field. He had a clean shot on a cow at 140 yards and made a good one shot kill. This was the highlight of my life for the last few years. He and I were both at stage one for that hunt. We needed that gut pile! Now it's my turn. November was finally here and a friend had agreed to come up and help me on my hunt. Only he could not leave until Friday morning, so I was on my own for opening day. So, opening morning and I?m sitting in a small herd of elk that just happened to walk up to me and were feeding as close as 30 yards away. I counted 20 some, but I could only find one with antlers. He was a 5x2 and was about 40 yards away at the closest pint. I didn?t feel that I wanted that hunt to end so quickly and settle for that bull after waiting so long for a license. Besides the freezer already had a nice tender cow in it, and my buddy would miss all the fun. I passed him up, just to hear him get shot 10 minutes later and ? mile away from where I sat. I talked to the lucky hunter who had just shot his first elk, and when I told him I had seen it earlier he called me a trophy hunter. I?m hardly a trophy hunter, and if my son had not gotten an elk a month earlier I would have shot him without hesitation, but I didn?t need that at that point. Besides, my buddy would have missed all the fun. So at that point I guess I was at stage 4. By the end of the hunt, I was back to stage one, and would have shot a spike if I?d seen one then. Now I can?t wait for my December hunt in area 35B. I?ll probably be in stage three at the start of the hunt. I hope I don?t reach stage one. Bret

Seeing elk up close and personal is always a thrill, particularly when it's a big bull! Sorry you did not fill a tag, but I am glad you had what I alsow wouls have considered a good hunt. Getting out with family and friends ans seeing the animals is almost as fun as getting an animal, with half the work. I had very similar experience to yours in 6A during the junior cow hunt. Saw elk each time out, including a very big 6x6 bull, and a mere 5x5 who paled in comparison. Sadly we practiced "catch and release" hunting during that hunt as well, but also considered it a successful hunt. I'm still waiting for a friend to return from his muzzleloader hunt in the same area to see how he did. Bret

Bummer of a way to spend your hunting time. There are just too dang many roads in Arizona. We need more road free areas or wilderness areas in this state. Better luck later in week after the 1st wave goes home! Bret

O uch! That one hurts. I did that a couple years ago for my wife and I. I screwed up my math and shorted our elk tags and deer tags by $0.50 each. That convinced me of the value of the internet application we [used] to have. Bret

First choice 20B rifle Javalina.

Gambrel?

Robert, I'm new as well, having just drawn my second Coues tag and can't wait for December to get here. I moved here from Colorado and I feel your pain on the hunting situation. 15 years and only one elk tag! Not like the "good ol' days" when I could buy my elk license over the counter the day before the season opened. Good luck getting the big ones, just save a few for me. Is it true that the best way to get your Wyo pronghorn is to wait for the wind to stop and them run up and club them when they fall over? Bret P.S. I'm not sure you gained much going from Wyoming to Kansas.

Only you can answer that question for sure. If you had stopped shooting was there a possibility he would continue over a rise and out of site, maybe never to be seen again? If you had stopped after the first or second shot, and never recovered the deer what questions would you be asking then? You got your deer, and didn't wound an animal that would later die un-recovered, so don't beat yourself up for shooting too many shots. My first elk took 7 shots, I'm not proud of the shooting, but I was sure proud to have that elk in camp. Bret

Great story! Those good times will last forever! Like you I appreciate those hunters who are secure enough to pass on thier knowledge, and even any tips they may have to help everyone enjoy thier hunt. They truly are great hunters to do so. Now I hope I can post similar pictures from my December 35B hunt which is the first hunt I will get to go on with my wife since we moved here from Colorado 15 years ago. Bret

Nice Buck! You are lucky that you can go hunting with your dad. Mine stopped hunting just before I was old enough to go, and I have never been hunting with him yet. I still try to get him to come out for a hunt occasionally, but no luck so far, not even to hunt with his grandson. That being said, I am sorry you had such a bad experience. As with most of the people on this site, I have seen these problems, or know people who have also experienced the "campers from hades". We cannot change our fellow man. The only thing we can change is how we react to him, and whether we let him dictate how much enjoyment we get from our hunt. He has a right to be in the forest, he has a right to ride his quad, he has a right to target practice, and he has a right to hunt quail when that season is open. I sincerely hope you do not let his actions control your enjoyment of the hunt. The time you have for that hunt is too limited for that. Some things to keep in mind... The jerks will not travel very far from good roads, nor will they hike very far to look for deer or quail. Even the riders on quads will generally stay on the good improved roads, unless they are road hunting. It is your fault you let him spoil your hunt. If there is a road, you should expect someone to drive on it, and plan your hunting accordingly. I have found that most hunters in the field are generally friendly, and will avoid spoiling your hunt if they know you are there. If they do not know you are there, you cannot reasonably expect them to stay out of the area can you? Your dad got a nice buck, that in itself should make this a very good hunt. Stressing yourself over the actions of others will give you health problems, and is not something to teach your children when you take them to the field. Sorry if this sounds like preaching, but I am somewhat concerned when people sound as if it should be my responsibility to ensure their lives are wonderful. Bret