cmc

I fully understand your point but when we take an animal it's under the classification of hunting unless done illegally, when the States Department tasked with the management of game disposes of a game animal, or non game for that matter, it's under a completely different set of rules and guide lines. Hunters are to follow rules set forth mostly under Title 17, the Department works under department policy and other guidelines. Think of this the same as a Phoenix police officer compared to you or I. (I'm taking it for granted that you're not an LEO so go with me on this) You and I have different rules to follow and are held at much different standards in a court of law if we had to use deadly force vs. a Phoenix police officer. Just like a WM, which is an LEO, they work under and have much different regulations they work under than citizens of the state they are sworn to protect. Things we would do that a LEO does would put you and I behind bars but not a LEO but in return things we do we might only get a minor citation vs. a LEO could face a court case although we both did the same thing. Does that mean I like that differance... nope not all the time, but I understand it and recognize why the difference is there. cmc

Most of the cases they do a pretty good job in hiding the carcases of animals they have to dispatch although the larger the animal the harder it might be to get it further back in the woods. Bears are usually in a trap and that means getting the trailer up into the back country (my guess what took place in this case). Figure also that most of these captures are work done solo by one WM. To add a second WM or help to the cause is going to cost the department more money. To have someone go out and dig a pit and bury the carcasses is going to cost the department even more money. That's going to be a hard pill to swallow for hunters to pay for it. I sure will oppose greatly to the expense of any policy like that. I think this case just had some additional situations that called for the location for disposal that aren't known to anyone other than those involved with the event. Not that this is relavent to what took place but in reading the MOU between the USF&W and the AZG&F - if the G&F has a freshly killed elk or deer up near locations of wolf packs it's suggested to take the carcass close to the wolf pack and dump it so that the wolfs can feed on it. A struggle there is that the wolf program folks don't like to see the elk dumped next to a road and ask the WM to take the elk further back off the roads. So after a WM loads and elk (usually solo) into their truck they are asked to haul it as far back from the road as they can?? Oh and they ask that the WM doesn't get any human sent on it if possible. Policy in these cases is easy to write when your sitting in the office of the FS & G&F. Pretty hard to fulfill when put into practice. cmc

Most places don't allow you to donate predator meat as the don't consider it eatable. G&F will at time take heads and paws for their I & E program to be used as education tools for hunter ed classes and such later on. They also will take samples of the tissue for testing and teeth for aging. As for determining if it was a 'problem bear' thats usually based on it being a repeat offender. Don't rule out that there are times that the situation puts human safety at risk, either the publics or a G&F employees. If there is not choice but to shoot the bear to eliminate the threat of harm caused to a human then you can count on the G&F will take lethal action against the bear. I would say the attitude has changed regarding nuisance bears ever since the event up on Mt. Lemmon where the young girl was attacked, I believe her name was Anna Connical, but don't quote me. Nuisance bears put the department into a very touchy arena, do you risk that animal having human contact like what happened up on Mt. Lemmon years back, or with the state having a healthy population as it does, should they not take the risk and eliminate the threat? Relocation of the bears unusually doesn't go well for either that bear or another bear in the area that they relocate the bear into. With the recent collaring of bears around the state I'm excited to see the finding in a year or two that in the end should help us gain knowledge on management of an outstanding animal. In the end, it's sad that if the animal had to go it wasn't able to be harvested by a lucky hunter, but I can understand that in most cases safety or timing just plays a much higher role and actions need to be taking quickly. cmc

Just curious how many guys drew archery deer tags? cmc

When and why did yall start bow huntin? Over 16 years ago. When did you take your first buck? I have yet to kill a deer with a bow & arrow. What were some of your memories from then? All those close calls playing cat and mouse with all those deer trying to spot and stalk them. I'd love to live them all over again year after year. What a rush, what a blast!

They do!!! Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson carries women sizes and you can order on line from Kings in women's sizes. My wife loves them much more than mens cut. cmc

I disagree. If you can't group through 'the broom' you're not tuned well or have poor form. I include having properly spined arrows with ample vans for the broad heads selected in that tune classification. Since the point doesn't travel 'through' the broom, the arrow shaft does, what tips is on the end is irrelevant in the discussion. Tuning and form are the variables. I say that as it doesn't matter what broad head I have on the time seem to fly well through the broom at 60yds for me. When they don't it's tune or form that's at fault. cmc

Two reasons why I don't apply for the Raymond Ranch area.... Most of the hunts have been for cows or yearling's. As was the case this year. Second and the biggest reason is that you can not hunt buffalo with archery tackle on the Raymond ranch. I'd want to take my once in a life times animals with a bow so I'll hold out for a house rock. cmc

Inaugural Sportsmen Heritage Banquet Sponsored by Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife Conservation August 1, 2009 4PM-9PM Scottsdale Resort and Conference Center 7700 E. McCormick Parkway, Scottsdale Don’t Miss our Early Bird Ticket Purchase Incentive Opportunity! Individuals who purchase Banquet Tickets will receive one free ticket for “A Special Raffle” and Tables of Ten will receive ten free tickets if received by July 15, 2009 Name______________________________________________ ______________ Address_________________________ City_____________ZiP_____________ Home Phone____________________Work/Cell_________________________ Email address___________________________________________ __________ Number of Individual Tickets ______________@ $100 each $_______________ Must be received by July 15 to be eligible for raffle – list attendees below Table(s) of Ten______________________@ $1,000 each $_________________ Must be received by July 15 to be eligible for raffle – list attendees below _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ Mastercard, Visa, Discover and American Express Cards Accepted Card # ______-______-_______-_______ Expiration Date _________________ Signature_________________________________________ _______________ Cancellations honored only if received by July 15, 2009 Send your ticket order form and payment to: AZSFWC, P. O. Box 13116, Phoenix, Az. 85002-3116 or Fax it to 602-712-1252. For more information contact Suzanne Gilstrap or Courtney LeVinus at 602-712-1121

This is too funny... I was just talking with my wife a week ago mentioning that now that our son is 3 and getting big enough to have some cool toys we should get a tractor tire and bury it half way in the ground so the kids can play on it. Growing up in MI on a farm everyone with kids had one of these in their yard. Needless to say my wife, a Tucson native, gave me 'the look' of what are you nuts? I'm going to have to revisit that as I figured what are the odds of coming across a free tractor tire. cmc

I have never heard of the use of sardine juice to lure in elk or deer, bears yes, but not elk or deer?

+2.... Very pleased with his work. I know a bunch of guys that recommend him to me to get some sausage, brats & chorizo made. All where great and I'll be taking in a bunch of meat for a second batch this fall. cmc

how can you burn that much powder in that short of a barrel? I'd expect that bullet to be more like a tracer... Reminds me when I shot a .510 revolver based on an older Ruger single action. Not a pleasurable event. Only shot it three times and after the third I discovered I had dislocated my trigger finger, broke a blood vessel the palm of my hand and I had a 1st degree burn on any part of my skin that touched the metal due to the resonating of the metal from the shock of the shot when the gun went off. Every one of us had a burn on out shooting finger that didn't use a glove. Very interesting and I'd never have believed it unless I shot it. After that I needed a bottle of Advil and a beer. And to think all we were doing was shoot forming cases without full loads. I'll never do that again! Try and get a picture of the muzzle flash near dark when that thing goes off. That'd be cool. cmc

How about P-dog hunting?

That has ouch written all over it!!!!! Beautiful looking gun... but this little gnome like guy about 2" tall standing on my right shoulder keeps leaning in squinting at the photo on the computer then turning to me and reitterating.... "that's gunna hurt chirs"... "that's gunna hurt.:

I almost forgot to mention that as usual we are holding our Big 25 raffle with a grand prize of a brand spanking new Rhino side by side ATV!!! Now we didn't forget the ladies either and are including some awesome jewelery as well a slew of guns and other great prizes. It's the same great odds as usual, 1 in 20 to win something, and same great price, $100ea for such great odds. Please note the normal 5-ticket per person limit. To get your ticket call or email Steve Hopkins at Big25@cmccotter.org or call 520-312-1258. Winners will be announced at our Aug 8th 2009, Big Game Banquet. You do NOT have to be present to win!!!

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forget that who won the bull tag?

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I use a PSE two piece quiver. I have both the 4 and 8 arrow quivers. Both with with no problem and hold both fixed and mechanical broad heads. http://www.pse-archery.com/cat.php?k=135511&sk=135511 hope that helps

A group of us from Tucson made it out to wreck some arrows and get lost in the woods trying to practice up for our elk tags. Loved the courses they were set up really well - just didn't care for the afternoon storms up on the mountain. I have to say I love my Cabalas Dry Plus gear! I learned two things.... my bow shoots low right in a hard nasty rain storm.... and Easton Full Metal Jackets are very expensive - that means never let anyone shooting carbons pull you FMJ's - $11 down the drain as a buddy bent one up just pulling it from a target. Next, never shoot first. I shot the standing black bear on course 1 first. I tagged him just outside the 12 ring for a 10 and watched as the target fell over and bent up #2 arrow... Down $22 for the shoot and it's only been two rounds. Needless to say I was down $44 dollars at the end of the shoot just because my FMJ's didn't hold up like my old carbons did. I call Easton Full Metal Jacets... One hit wonders - cuz after anything other than foam they are trash. They my be bullet tough to shoot animals with but sure not on a 3D course between soft dirt after a miss use of a sight pins and friends that treat their arrows like a 1971 Plymouth Furry I'll be using some carbons on 3D's from here on out. Over all a great time up on the mountain and fun with friends. It was interesting to see all the unprepared folks up there when the rains came. How can you not know about the rain in the afternoon in the white mountains? cmc

And when a houndsman is stopped and asked what are they doing the usually respond with... we're lion hunting - as that is their intent. Proving that or are they just out training/running the dogs with no intent to kill is the gray area. I believe, and would need to look back and find it to be exact, but the letter of the law is that two things are important. You have to be in pursuit with the intent to take wildlife. Pursuit for the sake of pursuit is not legal I believe. Yet this is exactly what the SC has stated up front, pursuit for the sake of pursuit, which to me means that they would be in violation of the law when put in context of their intentions. I'll have to go back and try to find the wording of the current law which might just turn my thoughts around. What still stands though is putting them at the table to make decisions based on funds accrued. The direction that they might take would probably be much different than that of sportsman that fund the great part of the department. cmc

I have read the actual request and yes they are applying for one of the commissioner lion tags. The trouble is they have admitted in the request they don't intend to harvest a lion with it and it will most likely go unused, but they intend to have the person that bids the highest use it as an education or wildlife viewing excursion. Someone goes out with hounds men and trees a cat. They observe, photo, and then let the lion go. Two things that worry me... G&F has been trying to stay out of the gray area in regards to pursuit of predators with hounds. Knowing that the 'tag holder' is not in pursuit with the intent to harvest then isn't that classified as wildlife harassment? This thought comes to me with them expressing, up front, their intentions of use of the tag? My bigger concern is if they sold the tag and funds go to the department the voice they have with how the dollars are spent. This would then put them at the table with the rest of the organizations that brought funds to the table, i.e. they can lay claim to funding of the department and in turn looking to have a much louder voice. This is bad. Oh and the comment of the Sierra Club not being anti-hunting.... not from what I've experienced. As a club they might not claim it but the individuals that represent the club sure are pushing an anti-hunting agenda. cmc

Now this is just too funny... I killed my first archery elk 14 years ago about 50 yds east from those GPS coordinates.... Nice... Have fun everyone, enjoy the cool weather and be safe on your travels. cmc

Figured this was in line with the subject of the thread.... http://www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?p=40059