bonecollector777

Well I think you all know how I feel about what was posted here. But does it surprise any of you? I, along with many others, have said it time and time again. AZGFD is just a bunch of money hungry thieves. They had to figure out a quick way to get that $100,000 they gave to Wagner haha but in all seriousness this is ridiculous. No one will support them in this yet the day after their meetings they will come out saying that the vast majority of people supported them in this and it will pass. Their "suggestions" or "recommendations" for the public are what they are going to do. They only put it out for the public so it looks like they gave everyone a chance to give their opinions. With no one to answer to and no end to the power they have it is only going to get worse. What's gonna stop them from raising them next year and the next? NOTHING. Glad to see you're seeing the light flatlander!

Hey guys, I think everything has been said that needs to so the moderator decided to lock the thread which is fine because there isn't really much more to be said. It can all still be read at the top of the campfire page. It is pinned there. I'm not writing this to start another thread about it. Simply letting you know because I had thought someone deleted it and I couldn't find it.

Sounds good. . I'm not asking anyone to be on my side. Just passin' on the facts. I'm just not quite sure how name calling from others towards me seems to get overlooked but when I respond back to it people find it horrifying and disrespectful? Seriously go back through any name calling I have made on this site and see if you can find one that wasn't in response to someone calling me something first. You won't find one Immature. . yeah probably. But laughing at their ridiculous insults and seeing the joke turned on the guys attempting to make me feel bad just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside But think what you wish. I'm not here to make fans.

Oh I definitely want this topic to live on. I want every hunter in AZ and the U.S. to hear about this BS that is happening here in AZ. There are a lot more responses of disgust of the AZGFD than of your few posts that try to seem like what they did is ok. Yeah people have been called names but if you go back and check you will see in every post I have ever made that no name calling started with me. Tough guys likes yourselves attempt to come to AZGFD's rescue by calling me a punk, wannabe, child, or whatever it may be and I answer back with how I feel about you. Seems pretty fair to me If you can dish it out you gotta be able to take it. It's funny to me that you few people see this as talking trash about someone. Apparently when laws are broken by corrupt people no one should bring it up or try and stop the corruption? What a horrible way of thinking. Sounds a lot like some things going on with the president right now. This thread should stay right where it is so all can see it and learn about the corrupt AZGFD. That was my only purpose in this post. To let people know about the corruption taking place. I knew it would get a lot of responses but I had no idea you AZGFD lovers would still try and come up with a way of defending the wardens when there are court documents showing the many laws they broke. This IS my battle to fight. It should be ALL of our battle to fight. This is OUR wildlife being taken care of by these corrupt people. If that's not a good enough reason for you to fight for what's right you should be ashamed to call yourself a hunter. Thank goodness all hunters don't think like you few do. What a sad and even more corrupt world that would be. Even if the topic gets deleted, which would cause many to lose support of such a great site, it is much too late for those that have read it to forget what is happening. This is now a topic among hundreds if not thousands of sportsmen as we can see in the near 11,000 views in four days. And that's just on this website. If I'm not mistaken this post may have had more views than ANY other topic on this website in such a short amount of time. Many of these people have personally thanked me for passing this information on and have forwarded it to their friends. There are many people who are already doing their part to see that justice is served and that this corruption is stopped. Believe it or not. It's happening. Continue with the name calling if you would like but believe me I'm not gonna stop passing on information that people need to know about. Give me a few days till my next topic about a warden down south by the name of McGeehee. I think you boys will love it!

At least come up with something original Rifleman. Don't go around posting the same stupid message in various posts. Makes you look even more stupid than I already thought you were. And that's hard to do.

Here I have attached a court hearing in regard to the matter of a game and fish officer Shawn Wagner shooting an elk while hunting with various other officers and a judge. Shawn shot an elk while hunting in 3B and made a bad shot on a bull. The bull was tracked but not recovered. Shawn left to Phoenix the next morning and signed his transport tag over to another officer without the knowledge that the elk was dead. Long story short the other officers proceeded to look for the elk and found it STANDING UP, WOUNDED BUT VERY MUCH ALIVE and proceeded to shoot the animal FOR Shawn and PUT SHAWNS TAG ON IT. Somehow all 4 officers thought this to be ok to do and acted as if Shawn had been there the whole time and killed his own elk. Let's pause for a second. Can any of you imagine what the AZGFD would do to any of us if we did something like this? Not only would we be fined but would also have our license taken away. But seeing as though their own employee did it they felt it was ok to let it slide. The elk was killed by another officer and somehow (to save Shawn and themselves from being punished) concluded the "fatal" wound was from Shawns arrow a day earlier. This elk was alive enough to be standing up and after various poor placed shots into the animals legs and throat it finally was killed.The animal was transported and taken to a meat processor after. Besides the fact this this absurd act was called legal it gets even better. As you will read in the court papers other officers then began looking into the incident to see if it was legal or not. The badly trained officers and chairmen conducted their investigation incorrectly and did things out of order which eventually led to Shawn and all people involved to be let off scot-free. Not only scot-free but Shawn then SUED THE AZGDF FOR $100,000 and WON!!!!!!! WTF? Please read the court papers I attached as they explain things in much better detail and you will see the corrupt things that take place inside the game and fish. Some statements from the chairmen during the investigation were things like "If we didn't have to play by the rules this would have been done a long time ago." and "we didn't want to start another investigation into the officers that didn't follow policy because they would be too much of a hassle." HAHA are you kidding me? In the end not one person was punished,demoted, or fired after these events. It only shows that as long as you are one of them you are ABOVE the law and apparently can do what you want and get away with it as long as benefits you. The illegal acts of all involved are shameful and things like this can't be tolerated. People lose their licenses over throwing some trash on the ground and GandF officers end up $100,000 richer for illegally taking elk. Seems wrong in every possible way. Are these the kind of people you want managing our wildlife? m5569612.pdf

Whew . . where to start! First off I would like to ask Rifleman what the name of his Boyfriend is that works at AZGFD? I have never seen anyone so blatantly ignore facts that were shown in a court document and proceed to suggest that me passing on information pertaining to law breaking government officials is worthless crap. The only kind of people that would want to ignore this illegal activity would be an employee of the Game and Fish. Or a lover of one of the wardens. Still haven't figured out which one it is. Next thing I would like to point out is that Wagner was not EVER tried in court for the laws that were broken. This court document pertains only to him suing the game and fish. Which I agree completely that they did the investigation wrong and were punished for doing it wrong. The point that a lot of us are missing is that NO ONE who was there that day that broke several laws or had something to do with this cover up was issued a citation. NO ONE. The only reason I was able to find out about this case is because of the fact that Wagner sued the AZGFD. Had he not there would have never been a court case to get papers from. They would have all stuck with their agreement that no law was broken, which is completely insane, and went on with their lives. The only way we would have been able to find out about it is if someone knew it happened and issued a subpoena of the investigation of Wagner. Which is what AZGFD thought would happen. That it would be forgotten and not brought up again. Unfortunately for them Wagner sued and now the word got out. So Rifleman and all others that think Wagner was tried and proven not guilty, read up on the case and realize NONE OF THESE GUYS WERE EVER WRITTEN A CITATION and therefore never even had to be tried for any wrong doing. Because their supervisors wanted to give them the "employee discount" that only AZGFD employees receive. The next mind blowing fact is that three different government agencies who's sole purpose is to investigate illegal activity botched the investigation three separate times as seen in the court documents. Fishy maybe? Who knows. . but it is hard to believe that those that know how to investigate and have investigated thousands of people managed to "do it wrong" three times which led to the suit filed by Wagner. Were those involved from the AZGFD punished? NOPE. They just continued on with life in their same positions. Would the investigation have been botched had it been any of us "normal folk"? I think not. For all of those that think I have something against the AZGFD because I have been in trouble are more than welcome to check my records to see if I have even so much as received a speeding ticket in my life. This isn't about revenge or spite. This is about years of seeing this corrupt department treat good people like crap. Good and honest hunters who make every effort to be good sportsmen that make one mistake are then turned into criminals by the power hungry game wardens. These same power hungry game wardens turn around and commit much more serious offenses and know that because of who they are nothing will happen to them. Time after time after time this happens. We have many examples of this corruption. Here are a few: A commissioner shooting prairie dogs out of season and being let go scot-free when a couple years before that he was insistent a hunter lose his license for five years for doing the same thing. That hunter lost his license. The commissioner was not disciplined. http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/34635-commissioner-husted-suspends-hunters-license-for/?hl=prairie That same commissioner accused of various sexual harassment charges. Was not tried legally and is still a reserve warden for the department http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130417arizona-wildlife-chief-quit-under-fire.html A jaguar killed by the Game and Fish. Many stories were given to hide the truth. No one was disciplined. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121215macho-b-death-jaguar-mystery.html This case that is being talked about right now of game wardens knowingly breaking the law and then cover it up and are never even issued a citation. An investigation into John Romero, a famous reptile biologist for the AZGFD. What ever happened to him? http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20130130arizona-game-fish-official-under-investigation.html These are just a few examples and I know we have all seen more of this taking place. Sad thing is these are the few examples that ever get to the public. All the others never get out of the AZGFD offices. Some on here are thanking Wagner for coming onto this sight to comment. While it was a nice thing to do (but completely for himself to look like a nice guy) and while some of you have had good experiences with him still doesn't excuse the fact that numerous laws were broken by the people who claim to know them best. Not only was no one punished, but no one even received a citation. I think we have all vented and explained how we feel. Now it is a matter of whether or not we are going to put up with this from the department who takes care of our wildlife's future. I urge you to write, email, or call the governors office, the attorney generals office, the game and fish office (probably won't help but will let them know how we feel), and the news channels. If there is enough pressure things will be taken care of. If we all sit back and do nothing, things will only continue to get worse. There has never been more support from Arizona hunters or a better time for all of us to stand up and make change happen. Below I have listed links to phone numbers and emails to contact the leaders and agencies that can make this change happen. Governor Jan Brewer: http://www.azgovernor.gov/Contact.asp Attorney General Tom Horne: https://www.azag.gov/contact-us AZGFD: http://www.azgfd.gov/comments.shtml Main office: 602-942-3000 Director Larry D. Voyles 602-942-3000 Deputy Director Ty Gray 602-236-7100 Legislative Liaison Tony Guiles 602-942-3000 Community Congressional Relations Ben Alteneder 623-236-7334 ABC 15: http://www.abc15.com/subindex/about_us/contact_us The Arizona Republic: http://www.azcentral.com/news/investigations/tip-form.php Fox 10: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/category/233631/contact-us News Channel 3 KTVK: http://www.azfamily.com/on-tv/contact/ CBS 5: Email: 5investigates@cbs5az.com/ Call 602-650-0711

Another thing we are all forgetting is the fact that three other game wardens participated in all of this that day. A justice court judge also was there participating. While Shawn is coming on here attempting to sound like a nice innocent guy I know him to be much different. Don't let him fool you. I suppose he was trying to intimidate me by using my last name but I have openly told people my name and posted my picture on this site because I have nothing to hide. Unlike some members like the tough guy rifleman who suddenly come to the azgfd defense when their role model Wagner posts. SHAWN, in your message you stated that you and ken clay tried to get the department to issue citations to each of you. You then proceeded to say that they refused to do so. In that sentence you admitted to all of us that you and clay knew you were in violation of the law. You then proceeded to do nothing about it along with the department. You admitted to law breaking so why not take responsibility for it? And the fact that you officers refused to issue a citation is a class 2 misdemeanor in itself. You are here to enforce the law. Not break it. You also admitting to helping others who were in the same situation with someone else shooting their elk is also incriminating. Maybe it was a good idea to only post once, before you sink your own ship.

Shawn, when you were asked about this situation today the first thing you said was who leaked this out? Why would something be "leaked" if it was completely legal and you were telling a lot of people about the incident? The hunting world is a small world and not one of us heard about this case and would not have heard about this case had my friend not found these court documents. Laws were broken and you know for a fact that if this was one of us we would have been treated much different. In the phone call today what is it that you said about the department? It went something like this. "I know exactly how you guys feel now and why you hate us. I have never been treated so bad in my life by the department when being talked to." Did you leave your tag in the possession of someone else to tag it or not? Yes you did. That is a violation of the law no matter how you look at it. The things that were caused after that were because of that one illegal act. None of us are allowed to do that so why are you? or any warden? This is just one incident of this crap. When you boys give tickets to people for having the tag of their son while hunting with them and turn around and do things much worse how can you justify that? How can that be interpreted any different? And then how can you feel good about taking $100,000 of our money that we give to the department? This whole thing is ridiculous and a mess. People are looking into it now and if what you said is true they will find out if it is true and see if people need to be punished for what they did. When you guys show no mercy on people for ANY reason don't expect a free pass from the department when you break multiple laws. Justice needs to be served. Not only to you but every officer that had anything to do with covering this up. As a peace officer knowing that laws were broken and not enforcing them is a misdemeanor in itself. And that is just scratching the surface of what happened there that day.

THEY DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE THE LAW. EVER. THEY SIMPLY ARE TO ENFORCE IT.

I totally agree non-typical, and I wouldn't even say held at a higher standard but we simply want them to held at the same standard as all of us! E. Except as permitted under R12-4-217 (this only refers to when someone gives their tag to their kid) , an individual shall not:1. Allow their tag to be attached to wildlife killed by another individual, BROKE THIS ONE 2. Allow their tag to be possessed by another individ - ual who is in a hunt area, BROKE THIS ONE 3. Attach their tag to wildlife killed by another individ - ual, BROKE THIS ONE 4. Attach a tag issued to another individual to wildlife, BROKE THIS ONE or 5. Possess a tag issued to another individual while in a hunt area. BROKE THIS ONE That's five broken laws directly out of the regs starting the moment Wagner let his tag be possessed by someone else that night

Sounds like you are doing just that. Defending game and fish and justifying it. So far you are the only one on various websites to think this was completely ok. Even being game and fish doesn't mean they have the right to change the law in the moment for their benefit. There are various laws they broke. Never at any point is an officer allowed to break a law and it be ok. You and I both know that.

Careful what you say here azoutlaw haha these boys don't take to kindly to our opinions

Get out of here you GandF lover. Sue us all for posting facts with court papers to back it up. Tell all your buddies there at AZGFD it's time for some clean up in the department.

I took what I wrote originally to start this post and modified it to be a little more professional and sent it to the governor (since she appoints a lot of the higher up guys) and some news stations. Now that I know about the Attorney Generals office I am in the process of writing an email to Tom Horne at the moment. I think if we all keep passing it around and getting it to the right people something will be done.

Nobull, I am not saying that Wagner asked them to shoot the bull. I am saying that Wagner had no right to leave his tag with someone else so they could tag it when he didn't know if his bull was dead. He knows he can't leave his tag with someone in hopes the his bull "happened" to die. I do agree that Wagner wasn't at nearly as much fault as Ken Clay and the rest of them because once Wagner left he had no say into what happened to the bull after this. My point about Wagner is he should have never given his tag over to someone else hoping that his bull had died. He needs to be 100% sure his elk is dead before giving his tag to anyone to tag it. In the end Ken Clay Jr. who tagged the elk with Wagners tag, Ken Clay III who killed the elk brutally, and all others who were present at the time were at most fault. Then all of the other directors, and wildlife managers who found out about the situation later should all be punished for trying to "do things their way" and "not wanting to play by the rules" as they stated in the papers. It's amazing to me that all of those high up AZGFD employees knew about the illegal activity, justified it, decided to investigate at a much later date, screwed up the investigation, and then tried to hide it all didn't get in trouble! Why not just come with me on the hunt, I'll wound a bull and then hand you the bow and you can go slay one of your own thinking it was the bull I wounded and justify it sounds like a good deal for everyone!

I heard about his from a friend so I looked into it and ended up with these court documents. Heck who knows what else I might find looking through some of this stuff. None of us knew about this because they didn't want people to know. The bottom line is if ANY of us had done it we would be in court right now with fines and losing out license. We all know that would be the case. Although I don't like AZGFD I do have a friend who works for them that already told me that recently after this incident there was a meeting with all officers. They were talked to about the incident and were told to tell others that is was completely legal to let someone else finish off your animal if need be. Which is completely absurd. But in the end it may be a good thing! Sounds like a good way for us to be able to sign our tag over to a friend if we have to leave just shoot an elk and wound it, sign the transport tag over to your buddy and let him have at it to "finish" your animal. We all might be getting to hunt every year now if our friends get drawn! I'm kidding but it just kinda shows you how ridiculous this whole thing is. I am posting it to most of the hunting websites I know of and am going to write a letter to Gov. Jan Brewer to ask her if she even knows about the incident and why no one was punished for what happened. Some are saying Wagner was not at fault but how can it be ok for him to even put someone in that situation? He knew better than to leave his tag with someone else and ask them to finish it for him if they found it. I'm very thankful that I was able to find court documents to back up what I have said. I do bring up a lot of stuff about the AZGFD and I noticed that those that worship them and defend them in the other posts where I have no hard evidence haven't come to the rescue on this thread. Because there is no denying how messed up the department is after this one.

I just sit and imagine what they would have done to any of us had we done something like that. We would have been charged with all kinds of things. The whole story is full of illegal activity and it's amazing that not ONE person was charged or punished for what they did. I have heard but don't know if it's true that the Arizona Republic has refused to write anything about this or report on it. Why do you suppose that is? AZGFD would never try and hide something like this from the public right? haha things just keep going downhill for them. . glad to see some of you don't approve of their actions either.

Couldn't even hear a gobble in 3C. Not much sign of turkeys. Saw a few hens while driving but other than that nothing. Turkey numbers are extremely low in the unit. Time to start backing off on the tags before they are extinct.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/cass-creek-harmon-synthetic-cow-elk-pee-scent.html Just find something like this and tell AZGFD to suck it. .

Always gotta be watchin' out for the AZGFD. Never know what the dirty little snakes are gonna do. . Great to see he went down for what he did! Now if they could just get rid of the rest of them.

Finally got the chance to take a nice tom. While I have had the chance to see a lot of cats in the tree this was my first one I have gotten the chance to kill. 130lbs and 7'0" from nose to tip of tail.

Finally got some time to get out and look for some antlers this afternoon and got pretty lucky! Got out around 3:30 and hunted till about seven and found 2 decent browns, 5 good sized hard whites, and 2 old chalky gnawed on antlers. But all in all can't complain for only 3 hours of looking! About walked myself to death but had a lot of fun.

Is the 2013 draw information available already? Just curious where you got your numbers. .

Only gets people like you wound up Rifleman. . if you would like I can start some of my own posts to get you pissed off? I would be more than happy to. Let's call this one good and wait for the next I didn't come on this one to point out people that give info to AZGFD. The two examples were simply to show that it happens. I came on here to make it known that it's something that AZGFD does and it's ridiculous that people participate in it and ridiculous that you guys think it's impossible for it to happen. That's my point here. Believe it or not, up to you.