bonecollector777

Another thing we are all forgetting is the fact that three other game wardens participated in all of this that day. A justice court judge also was there participating. While Shawn is coming on here attempting to sound like a nice innocent guy I know him to be much different. Don't let him fool you. I suppose he was trying to intimidate me by using my last name but I have openly told people my name and posted my picture on this site because I have nothing to hide. Unlike some members like the tough guy rifleman who suddenly come to the azgfd defense when their role model Wagner posts. SHAWN, in your message you stated that you and ken clay tried to get the department to issue citations to each of you. You then proceeded to say that they refused to do so. In that sentence you admitted to all of us that you and clay knew you were in violation of the law. You then proceeded to do nothing about it along with the department. You admitted to law breaking so why not take responsibility for it? And the fact that you officers refused to issue a citation is a class 2 misdemeanor in itself. You are here to enforce the law. Not break it. You also admitting to helping others who were in the same situation with someone else shooting their elk is also incriminating. Maybe it was a good idea to only post once, before you sink your own ship.

Shawn, when you were asked about this situation today the first thing you said was who leaked this out? Why would something be "leaked" if it was completely legal and you were telling a lot of people about the incident? The hunting world is a small world and not one of us heard about this case and would not have heard about this case had my friend not found these court documents. Laws were broken and you know for a fact that if this was one of us we would have been treated much different. In the phone call today what is it that you said about the department? It went something like this. "I know exactly how you guys feel now and why you hate us. I have never been treated so bad in my life by the department when being talked to." Did you leave your tag in the possession of someone else to tag it or not? Yes you did. That is a violation of the law no matter how you look at it. The things that were caused after that were because of that one illegal act. None of us are allowed to do that so why are you? or any warden? This is just one incident of this crap. When you boys give tickets to people for having the tag of their son while hunting with them and turn around and do things much worse how can you justify that? How can that be interpreted any different? And then how can you feel good about taking $100,000 of our money that we give to the department? This whole thing is ridiculous and a mess. People are looking into it now and if what you said is true they will find out if it is true and see if people need to be punished for what they did. When you guys show no mercy on people for ANY reason don't expect a free pass from the department when you break multiple laws. Justice needs to be served. Not only to you but every officer that had anything to do with covering this up. As a peace officer knowing that laws were broken and not enforcing them is a misdemeanor in itself. And that is just scratching the surface of what happened there that day.

THEY DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE THE LAW. EVER. THEY SIMPLY ARE TO ENFORCE IT.

I totally agree non-typical, and I wouldn't even say held at a higher standard but we simply want them to held at the same standard as all of us! E. Except as permitted under R12-4-217 (this only refers to when someone gives their tag to their kid) , an individual shall not:1. Allow their tag to be attached to wildlife killed by another individual, BROKE THIS ONE 2. Allow their tag to be possessed by another individ - ual who is in a hunt area, BROKE THIS ONE 3. Attach their tag to wildlife killed by another individ - ual, BROKE THIS ONE 4. Attach a tag issued to another individual to wildlife, BROKE THIS ONE or 5. Possess a tag issued to another individual while in a hunt area. BROKE THIS ONE That's five broken laws directly out of the regs starting the moment Wagner let his tag be possessed by someone else that night

Sounds like you are doing just that. Defending game and fish and justifying it. So far you are the only one on various websites to think this was completely ok. Even being game and fish doesn't mean they have the right to change the law in the moment for their benefit. There are various laws they broke. Never at any point is an officer allowed to break a law and it be ok. You and I both know that.

Careful what you say here azoutlaw haha these boys don't take to kindly to our opinions

Get out of here you GandF lover. Sue us all for posting facts with court papers to back it up. Tell all your buddies there at AZGFD it's time for some clean up in the department.

I took what I wrote originally to start this post and modified it to be a little more professional and sent it to the governor (since she appoints a lot of the higher up guys) and some news stations. Now that I know about the Attorney Generals office I am in the process of writing an email to Tom Horne at the moment. I think if we all keep passing it around and getting it to the right people something will be done.

Nobull, I am not saying that Wagner asked them to shoot the bull. I am saying that Wagner had no right to leave his tag with someone else so they could tag it when he didn't know if his bull was dead. He knows he can't leave his tag with someone in hopes the his bull "happened" to die. I do agree that Wagner wasn't at nearly as much fault as Ken Clay and the rest of them because once Wagner left he had no say into what happened to the bull after this. My point about Wagner is he should have never given his tag over to someone else hoping that his bull had died. He needs to be 100% sure his elk is dead before giving his tag to anyone to tag it. In the end Ken Clay Jr. who tagged the elk with Wagners tag, Ken Clay III who killed the elk brutally, and all others who were present at the time were at most fault. Then all of the other directors, and wildlife managers who found out about the situation later should all be punished for trying to "do things their way" and "not wanting to play by the rules" as they stated in the papers. It's amazing to me that all of those high up AZGFD employees knew about the illegal activity, justified it, decided to investigate at a much later date, screwed up the investigation, and then tried to hide it all didn't get in trouble! Why not just come with me on the hunt, I'll wound a bull and then hand you the bow and you can go slay one of your own thinking it was the bull I wounded and justify it sounds like a good deal for everyone!

I heard about his from a friend so I looked into it and ended up with these court documents. Heck who knows what else I might find looking through some of this stuff. None of us knew about this because they didn't want people to know. The bottom line is if ANY of us had done it we would be in court right now with fines and losing out license. We all know that would be the case. Although I don't like AZGFD I do have a friend who works for them that already told me that recently after this incident there was a meeting with all officers. They were talked to about the incident and were told to tell others that is was completely legal to let someone else finish off your animal if need be. Which is completely absurd. But in the end it may be a good thing! Sounds like a good way for us to be able to sign our tag over to a friend if we have to leave just shoot an elk and wound it, sign the transport tag over to your buddy and let him have at it to "finish" your animal. We all might be getting to hunt every year now if our friends get drawn! I'm kidding but it just kinda shows you how ridiculous this whole thing is. I am posting it to most of the hunting websites I know of and am going to write a letter to Gov. Jan Brewer to ask her if she even knows about the incident and why no one was punished for what happened. Some are saying Wagner was not at fault but how can it be ok for him to even put someone in that situation? He knew better than to leave his tag with someone else and ask them to finish it for him if they found it. I'm very thankful that I was able to find court documents to back up what I have said. I do bring up a lot of stuff about the AZGFD and I noticed that those that worship them and defend them in the other posts where I have no hard evidence haven't come to the rescue on this thread. Because there is no denying how messed up the department is after this one.

I just sit and imagine what they would have done to any of us had we done something like that. We would have been charged with all kinds of things. The whole story is full of illegal activity and it's amazing that not ONE person was charged or punished for what they did. I have heard but don't know if it's true that the Arizona Republic has refused to write anything about this or report on it. Why do you suppose that is? AZGFD would never try and hide something like this from the public right? haha things just keep going downhill for them. . glad to see some of you don't approve of their actions either.

Couldn't even hear a gobble in 3C. Not much sign of turkeys. Saw a few hens while driving but other than that nothing. Turkey numbers are extremely low in the unit. Time to start backing off on the tags before they are extinct.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/cass-creek-harmon-synthetic-cow-elk-pee-scent.html Just find something like this and tell AZGFD to suck it. .

Always gotta be watchin' out for the AZGFD. Never know what the dirty little snakes are gonna do. . Great to see he went down for what he did! Now if they could just get rid of the rest of them.

Finally got the chance to take a nice tom. While I have had the chance to see a lot of cats in the tree this was my first one I have gotten the chance to kill. 130lbs and 7'0" from nose to tip of tail.

Finally got some time to get out and look for some antlers this afternoon and got pretty lucky! Got out around 3:30 and hunted till about seven and found 2 decent browns, 5 good sized hard whites, and 2 old chalky gnawed on antlers. But all in all can't complain for only 3 hours of looking! About walked myself to death but had a lot of fun.

Is the 2013 draw information available already? Just curious where you got your numbers. .

Only gets people like you wound up Rifleman. . if you would like I can start some of my own posts to get you pissed off? I would be more than happy to. Let's call this one good and wait for the next I didn't come on this one to point out people that give info to AZGFD. The two examples were simply to show that it happens. I came on here to make it known that it's something that AZGFD does and it's ridiculous that people participate in it and ridiculous that you guys think it's impossible for it to happen. That's my point here. Believe it or not, up to you.

Happened in the 90's so that's not the same story.

Nope, your mom told me about that one. . actually Don is the one that told that one so ask him about it. I'm not quite sure what you were saying there at the end? Better get yourself an editor Outdoor "Writer". . just be careful what you start saying about my dad. Bring him into it and things probably won't go well. Bash on me all you want but bringing him into it will start a whole new ball game.

Applied since I was ten in 2000 2000-Cow tag 2005-Bull tag 2013-Bull tag Never had an antelope tag

I don't let old tough guys like you get to me Rifleman. . you're the least of my worries. And ok let us know what you find out about him. It exists, just a matter of whether or not they are going to tell you it exists since they made a deal with him. Ask them about the sting operation when they tried getting another guy to poach a sheep and the AZGFD officer ended up shooting it and then tried getting the guy they took with them in trouble. See if they will tell you about that one too.

Bow is sold

I have a Mathews Switchback that I am looking to sell. I bought this bow in 2005 and used it for 2 days on my archery elk hunt, then put it in the closet and used it again during an archery deer hunt in 2008. Then it was put back into the closet and has been pulled out very few times for practice since then. Not much use on it and in great shape. 30" draw length and 70 pound pull weight. Bow comes with Mathews 5 arrow quiver, trophy ridge 5 pin sights, limbsaver stabilizer, and whisker biscuit rest. Just recently put a string loop on it. I'll have pics up tomorrow but thought I would get this up for anyone thinking about buying a great bow.

You meant to say Mcbride huh? Tell Don to give me a call and let me know what I said that's not true. . I have a lot more stories to tell except this time the stories came right from his mouth so tell him he better think about it a little before coming to me.