Coues 'n' Sheep

I've got a couple factory rifles that with a trigger job are good killing machines at say 400+/-... but all my custom rifles are 1/2 MOA at a 1000yds (or better)... It is all in the details from 500-1000 yds, IMHO....

I have a concern, a problem, worry about us as hunters… We are too concerned with numbers and the end result of winning… and it is clouding our judgment as well as our moral & ethical standards. I’ll open up a can of worms here, and there are several issues I’d love to address, but for now, I am going to focus in one place… Shooting. Equipment, knowledge, practice, and ability can extend the range of a hunter from the once standard 300 yards and in… to distances pushing a ½ mile or more… There are many pieces of country where closing the distance does not provide any opportunity to harvest the animal. For this reason the use of a well executed long range shot can make areas that were previously un-hunt able… a possibility, providing the conditions are right (perfect). Here is where we become our own worst enemy… We read about it, we see the success, we see the guys on the next ridge doing it… But not all of us have invested, tested, practiced, or even laid the ground work to put long range hunting into practical field application. I myself have a put quite a bit of time into LR shooting (but not as much as I’d like) over the last few years. I have a gun that I am very confident in at and around 600 yards. Since I invested my time and money into this gun (a 300 wby mag) we have had 17 out 17 animals recovered at ranges between 220 and 600 yards. We have enjoyed many one shot kills… and a couple that required a little more work. I however, will honestly argue that I have seen far worse marksmanship at less than 300 yards by other hunters, than any hunting story involving my LR rifle… I do harbor guilt for making long range hunting seem a common place or cavalier, even though we have never taken a shot over 650 yds. But, I built my gun for those times when you can’t get any closer, yet we shoot over 50% of the critters we take at under 400 yds. I also own a backup 300 wby mag that I consider to be a 400 yd and closer gun… we do not use it for anything but sub-400 yard hunting situations. It is my responsibility to be not only objective of my equipment and the hunting situation, but also who is pulling the trigger. I am seeing less and less objectivity, while I see more and more willingness to get lead in the air…. This year I heard more shots per elk harvested, than I ever have on an elk hunt. We witnessed over a Box of shells thrown at a spike at probably close to a ½ mile… they finally hit it after spraying lead all over a 40 yd circle. I witnessed a guide (for a VERY well known Outfitter on this forum and around the western deer world) let his client borrow his LR rifle and sling lead (3 shots) at just over 800 yds… then walk away saying they missed. I bet I’ll find a 6x6 elk head within 75 yds of where they were shooting in the spring while I horn hunt in there. The “whack” was pretty distinctive on the second shot from where I stood and the elk acted hit for the next 30 minutes while standing “ground hitched” then taking a couple labored steps into the brush and gone from site. No, they did not walk up in there and look for sign (to my knowledge), they packed their gear and left. To their defense I did not hike there to look for their bull either, so I could be mistaken about the hit but not about the circumstances. I know of a guy who took 17 shots at his Big bull before it was a done deal. I watched a Giant bull get whacked using 5-6 shots… many smaller bulls 2-5 shots… heard of many losses including an estimated 390 type bull… and I watched a gentleman miss 2 out of 3 at 231 yds with a rock rest! Does this sound bad??? Well it makes us ALL LOOK BAD! Collectively we are our own worst enemy!! I have an "aquaintance" ("friend" was the wrong word since I know several familys with mulitple tags and taking long shots) that filled 3 out of 3 tags (no losses) all over 400 yd shots for his daughters… all “hold over” shots… This is just as unethical as letting client (or anyone) take an unrehearsed shot at anything alive a ½ mile down range! I have yet to see anyone in any of the situations listed above holding a wind meter or a ballistic calculator and venture to guess that 90% of them don’t even know the BC of the bullet they are shooting. On the other hand, kudos to all who were successful in one shot kills at any range 22-1000 yards…. I know for every poor example I just listed there are several Awesome stories… For example: Kristy Ulmer of Chasin’ a Dream Outfitters shot a bull (330” broken, 345+ if not broke) in a “circus” late hunt that took 2 stalks and 10 hours to close the deal with a single shot at 170 yards (using a gun that could have taken the bull down ethically at 600yds. Congrats to Kristy and Jeremy on a Awesome job!). But, the fact remains we are choking ourselves to death by letting our desire to win, cover up what we know is right or wrong… shame on us… all of us… I am all for harvesting the best game we can find regardless where it may hide. To me that can and does include the need to shoot beyond 400 yards at times, but it has to be done with measure. Hunting conditions, equipment, and ability must all be at an A+ rating to make a long shot…. Keep in mind the margin of error when you shoot at 800 yds is ½ what it is at 400 yds. To me shooting past 300 yards requires a commitment and requires more thought and calculation with each 100 yds beyond that. What posses us to think we have the right to send that bullet up on a Wing and a Prayer??? Please encourage all the hunters that you know to weigh their actions and put a higher regard for these animals we hunt than on winning. We have to stop ambushing ourselves and start protecting the tradition for the future generations. The responsiblity is ours... yours and mine to step it up. I know that the waters will soon be muddied by everything from blaming the AZGF for putting too many hunters in the woods (however true), to Guides, Outfitters, Trophy hunters vs meat hunters, to attacking me or each other…. But the fact remains we have a choice and we need to choose better and I am not above including myself in the blame. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

A little different perspective on this beast and that isn't a lil' dude packing the bull. Beams and Mass are UN-Freaking-Real on this bull...

Hard to believe this is an 8 year old thread and I still get messages about it... Good hunting this fall folks!

This might turn into a Nuke thread... but if we all stick to the FACTS as to what has worked for us in the past, including tempatures, time, hit location angle of impact, etc. etc. We as a group may be able to help other guys in the future not make the same mistake that we have done or seen... allowing them to recover more game. I have personally helped in the harvest and recovery of nearly 25 coues deer since 2001, for myself, family and friends. It does not make me an expert, but I have learned from successes as well as failures over the years. I thought rather than writing a book we could pin a thread and colletively add over time things that will aid guys in what to do next. Again this has to be a possitve ONLY thread.... hang your "ethics police" hat by the door on the way in. Thanks in advance if this works and Amanda (and Hall Monitors ) Please nuke this thread if it goes wrong. I'm gunna throw my $.02 at a thread that I saw a week or so here about a potential gut shot..... My personal window of succes on gut shots has been waiting at least 8-12 hours or longer. My reason for this is that in thick country and no blood trail if you "bump" a wounded animal once, he is gone forever. (Of course this would be different in open country and I hope someone will post about that.) We have never lost meat on deer that we left and did not bump. Once you bump them, you often times will not find them before some meat loss occurs. Again.... this is in thick country with temp highs no more that 50-55 degrees and lows near freezing. Note: this also applys for me when rifle hunting. Hope this works! Thanks!

Bump for good deal on ladies gear...

I fixed it. Sending Message. Thanks.

Pray you get lucky? I am at 18 and all I do is Pray....

The lil ones are awesome for Bass and Channels and the big ones are great on Flat Heads in my limited experience at Rosie...

Awe Suck!!

Thanks guys!!! please let me know how this shakes out.... and if anyone ends up with the meat. Text is best. Much Thanks!!!!

That was me.... I wouldn't be able to pick it up until the 20th on my way back from Mexico? You can reach me via text or call if that works. (9two8) Nine78-Two9zero0 Thanks.

I am Considering cleaning out the gun safe a bit.... I have 2 semi custom .300 Wby Magnums and a NIB .300 win mag. SOLD! #1 is a Weatherby Mark V I have had it about 10 years and it has killed everything we have ever pointed it at, mostly one shot kills. This is an everyday carry gun, it shows some wear and use. I would like to sell this one with the Huskemaw 5-20x50 mm scope on it. $1,250.00 SOLD! #2 is a Remiington model 700 Sendero rechambered in .300 wby. I had this gun built, put a brand new Huskemaw Blue diamond 5-20x50 on it, and have developed a perspective load for it, but just haven't had the time for this Safe Queen. I am willing to sell this one with or without the scope. Bare rifle: $975.00 or with scope: $1,675.00 If some one is interested in both Wby rifles I will add the dies, brass, and some components for reloading. #3 is a NIB Savage Mod# 116fcss in .300 Win Mag. This was a banquet gun and never been out of the box... $750.00 OBO Feel free to contact me on my Cell. (928)nine78-two90zero Thanks!

Bump for Cyber Monday shoppers!! Hahaha

Technically it is littering... and if FS & AZGFD would enforce that LAW, then the G&F would not have needed to create the "Bait rule"... but law makers just gotta make more laws....

The WBY Mags are sold... The savage is listed several places on line for $775ish plus tax.... I am willing to hear reasonable offers. THX and Happy Thanksgiving!!!

It will be one of my next builds... but waiting till brass becomes more available... I know some guys that know some guys... that shoot them but sorry no data.

For years I had tried to be prepared to +/- 600 yds and we never lost a Critter. This year I was blessed with an opportunity to become a Shop Shooter for Inner Mountain Rifle Stocks... They build custom guns and stocks. With a brand new 6.5x.284 Norma arriving I figured I was GOLDEN now! I pulled it out of the Box, checked the zero at 200 and lofted a 5 shot (3/4 MOA) group out to 966 yds the first day! What I realized next was how much I still had to learn! Eric, the owner, taught me about load data for this new gun, how to use the equipment that I had to it's potential... and coupling that with the things I had learned over the years we have taken 5 antelope, with 3 different shooters, in 2 different states with it so far this year... at ranges from 280-736 yds! All one shot kills all with spotters, calling ranges, calling wind, and calling shots. It takes more than a shooter, it takes the best equipment, it takes a bit of help also... and it takes being able to pull out before the shot and say, "Nope... not gonna happen." There is a lotta work that goes into each shot over 400-500 yds... the conditions have to be equally as good as the gun and the shooter. I am heading to a shooting school with the Guys from IMRS next summer and can't wait to keep up the hard work... but the more I learn the more humbling it becomes, and the more I realize that in the past we had some really "Lucky" days...LOL. I wish that all hunters were able to enjoy the option of success at close range and at long range.... both take a lotta work. Good Hunting!

Burn barrel works better and is safer... you can even torch cool designs into the barrel, and use camp chairs as seating any you will save a Fortune.... and yes I am a General Contractor... but that is my honest answer. LOL

Thanks Guys!

What a Great Rig!

Sendero is sold. Mark V is available and so is the Savage.... I will be away from the computer so please text me if you have any questions. Thanks!

Sendero is Sold pending funds.

PM sent Quagmire.

The Ol' Mark V has a Great Track record of that... I'd say definitely trained killer! Hahaha