Winchester Model 70 Improvements

[Faster Daddy!]

I own two Model 70 Classics, one 270 WSM and the other is a 300 WSM. Any suggestions on improving their accuracy. My best 100 yd groups are 1.5 to 2 inches. They are both new and bone stock from the factory. I broke the barrels in using the guidelines of the Barnes Manual. I have reduced the trigger pull from the factory set of 6lbs down to 2.5lbs. I'm sure that will help just haven't been back to the range yet. I also have the made in Japen model 70 (non-pre 64 action) that I bedded the full action on many years ago and it will shoot sub MOA groups. Didn't know if I should try that with these or pillar bed or aluminum block or ........? Both of these have factory wood stocks which I know could be some of the missing accuracy. Also, the 270 is topped with a luepold VX 2, 4.5-14 and the 300 is topped with a luepold VX 3, 3.5-10. Barrels are currently free floating with factory bedding at the recoil lug (looks good) and at the rear screw (looks like it could be better) with nothing touching inbetween. I do reload and maybe I just haven't found the "load" yet so I am still working on that but in the meantime I was just wondering if I should have something done to the guns first. Thanks

[matthewp45]

I had the same rifle in a 270 WSM. It shot 1.5" groups stcock. I put a new McMillan stock on it and had it beaded. Put a new timney trigger at 2lbs. Also had creakote put on it for the weather. Had them clean up the action a little. Now it shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Looks a lot cooler too.

[.270]

bedding will help. or a new stock. but you need to look at your ammo and how it works in your rifles. overall cartridge length is real critical in any rifle to get optimum groups. and so is barrel twist. the .270 will be 1 in 10, like all .270's, but you need to be sure you're shooting a bullet that matches your twist in the .300. i've never seen a barnes bullet that shot real well either, when compared to jacketed lead bullets especially. the bullets are a lot longer than a jacketed bullet of the same weight and unless they've changed something in their recomendations, you have to seat them way off the lands to keep from building up too much pressure, which in turn can really affect accuracy. (overall cartridge length,again). i see they are cutting some grooves in them now to reduce barrel drag and cut down on pressure. this is gonna have some affect on the length of the bullet too. it will have to be a bit longer to get the weight. then there's the thing about everything i've ever seen shot with a barnes ran off and had to be tracked down, but i guess some folks like that. anyway, the bullet being longer could require a different twist in the twist sensitive .30 cal. depending on how your barrel is twisted you may need to go up or down in bullet weight to match things up right. i'd shoot some jacketed bullets and see how they work for sure. if you're shooting inside of 2 inches at 100 yards with a stock rifle, you're not too far off. just needs a little tweeking here and there, mostly with your ammo i'd guess. i'd bed the action and then really work on finding what ammo your rifle likes, before i'd spend a bunch on a new stock. my oldest son had a tikka .270 wsm and it shot everything excellent, once you got it loaded right. he finally settled on 100's in it because he wanted the velocity, but it shot anything we put in it incredibley well. don't have any experience with the .300 short mag, but the fact that it's a .30 caliber means it will take a little experimenting to make it shoot real tight groups. i have '06's and .300's and they all shoot well, after you figger out what they want. Lark.

[Faster Daddy!]

Thanks for the comments guys. Mathew, who did your work for you because it sounds like you realized some very decent results for your money???? Post a photo if you can.

 

270, thank you too. You have some very good information and I just came from the reloading bench with some more loads in both calibers to try. My only harvest with Barnes bullets was a cow elk with a 168 gr. in 300 WSM. It was only a 100 yd shot in the lungs and the cow didn't go more than 5 yds. before dropping. I have also had very good luck in the past on elk with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions out of a Browning Model 1885 Falling Block Single Shot in 30-06. I understand the importance of AOL and reloads. Yes, Barnes recommends 50 thousands off the lands to start. What I am trying to do is work on several Bullet, Powder, Charge and primer combinations ALL at .050" off the lands. Once I find the most accurate of those combinations, I will begin to experiment with different seating depths and OAL (does that seem like a decent approach?). Believe me, I will continue searching for the right load until I find it, that part is fun. I have to tell ya, I am partial to wood stocks but maybe I should consider a laminated stock. It seems like a laminated stock may have better performance than a solid walnut because the glued togather block of wood should be less sensitive to moisture/humidity than a one piece solid walnut stock. Any recommended gunsmiths for bedding jobs?

[GameHauler]

As far as a smith I would recommend Clay B. in Strawberry.

Coues-n-Sheep and I have recommended him to a few members here

and they have also been very happy with his work and prices

as have Gino and I.

I just had Gino take another Contender frame and 3 barrels to him Today.

I can not help with either caliber you are playing with since a 270 is best left

to old, half blind and crippled farts that don't know any better but do have a brand

new 300 WSM barrel sitting in my safe for a upcoming project.

Good luck getting them dialed in

 

[Faster Daddy!]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Smith! As far as the 270 cal., it looks like I am a perfect fit.......old fart, half blind...maybe a little more than half, and have no clue. So be careful, Lark and I will show you who's right here! Does anybody know any good smiths in Tucson. I heard Harry Lawson has passed on.

[GameHauler]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Smith! As far as the 270 cal., it looks like I am a perfect fit.......old fart, half blind...maybe a little more than half, and have no clue. So be careful, Lark and I will show you who's right here! Does anybody know any good smiths in Tucson. I heard Harry Lawson has passed on.

 

I think not

If you start getting close I will break out the bad boy .284's

[matthewp45]

I had White Cloud Gunsmith in Phoenix do it. I will get a picture of the finished product up pretty soon.

[Faster Daddy!]

Thanks Matt, I would like to see it. It just doesn't seem like a lot of talk about model 70's on all these sites. Are they just not as good as a platform for accuracy as the Rem 700 or a custom? I like my model 70's and am willing to sink some $$$$ into them if I can get some results. Or should I sell them and start building a custom?

[.270]

don't listen to gameholler. he's in prison and this is the only site they let him on after he got in all that trouble on the prison pen pal site. if he knew more about guns he wouldn't be in prison. he wouldn't o' took a 7mm/08 to a gun fight. he likes 7mm/08s because he can't take the recoil of a 9mm.

 

they sell bedding kits at about any gunstore. they aren't hard to use. i'd just bed the bedding block to start with. you might notice a little benefit from a laminated stock, but not much. a good wood stock will work okay if it fits well. after you get the ammo figgerd out, if it ain't accurate enough, then maybe get a different stock. i'd suggest a good synthetic over a laminated one too. but i'd bet you could make the one you have work fine.

 

one more thing, if you set jacketed bullets back .0050", they probly won't shoot well. they do that with barnes because they are so long they build up a lot of pressure. you want a jacketed bullet to be quite close to the lands. i like mine to touch. most folks say to be within .0010". a lot of folks swear by barnes, i tried em once in my .270 and lost over 200 fps and accuracy went to heck. and i've had some horrible experiences with elk running off after lung shots with em. i won't even hunt elk with somebody who uses em. the seem to just punch a hole in em and they run off. Lark.

[Faster Daddy!]

I agree with you Lark, if you can't take the recoil of a 9mm then you shouldn't be messin' with a 7mm/08 or for sure a 270 WSM or larger. Maybe we should get him a 22 rimfire for Christmas. However, if you're in prision you take what you can get for entertainement wether you can handle it or not!!!!!!!! You guys aren't helping me with my accuracy woes of my Model 70's.

[matthewp45]

A real good friend of mine has three safes full of model 70's that all shoot great. That is his hobby is to get model 70's and get them to shoot very accurate. Usually if the gun is not shooting well it only takes a good beading job, a trigger and the right load. He has yet to buy one that he could not get to shoot under an inch. You can make your gun shoot no problem.

[Faster Daddy!]

I like hearing that Matt. I am looking for that kind of help. I love Model 70's!!