Governor's Tags

[DesertBull]

Utah has over 200 tags they auction/raffle off now and they took them directly out of the hunter pool.

BOGUS.

[COOSEFAN]

On another note, I have seen where wealthy "Hunters" have bought some of these tags and payed an outfitter to scout for months. When the outfitter has the animal patterned on it's summer or wintering grounds he makes the call to the "Hunter" who flys in the night before and goes out and "shoots" the animal the next morning. What kinda crap is that! That in no way is HUNTING!

 

I agree with Deerslam, that isn't hunting. The outfitter is doing all the hunting, everything but pull the trigger! I don't know if you can fault the outfitter for that, he is trying to scratch out a living. BUT the good that comes out of the money raised from an auction tag is definitely worth letting some rich guy pretend like he is a superior trophy hunter for a day. I will probably never take on an Auction tag client, mainly because of the headache of having to produce a bull worthy of every last penny he SPENT. We DONATED our services to the RAFFLE tag last year to hopefully increase ticket sales. Most of the people that bought tickets probably couldn't afford to hire a guide, and that crosses thier mind at the thought of winning a once-in-a-lifetime tag. My buddy donated a free shoulder mount as well, and I think creating a package deal like that helped bring in a little more money. We always try to help the client get everything out of a hunt, not just the killing part, but the whole experience. I'll have them help me glass, teach them some tricks, hike them in a little farther so they feel like they hunted hard and in the end they are leaving with more than just the rack. I think some of those Auction tag holders never experienced any of that and most don't even care to. I even try to have clients come out a day or two early to scout with me and to hike around without the pressure of a valid tag in their pocket, I feel they have a chance then to soak it all in, making the experience that much richer. Running an outfitting business the way we do, will probably never make me much money, BUT, I will feel better about what I do!

[KGAINES]

I can say that I have no problem with the way AZ does it, and if they were all raffle tags I suspect that there would be a few of the big money guys that would buy a huge allotment of tickets, that is both a good and bad thing, one AZ or a conservation group gets more money, but the bad part is that the chances of the average hunter winning the tag goes down significantly, so why not split it up and allow one of the "rich " guys to buy his tag and keep his money away from the rest of us. No matter how we look at it I would rather the highest bidder get only one tag than have them get all the tags just because they can outbid everyone else.

[CHD]

CHD,

 

You need to change your tag line to read:

 

"Sarcasm and Button Pushing, Two of The Finer Services I Offer"

 

Way to go CHD you pushed another one of those buttons, but I think you knew you'd get a volatile mixed response, isn't that what you are looking for?

 

Wetmule, I resemble that remark!

 

 

 

Actually, there are now a lot of REALLY good, intelligent, knowledgeable, experienced, OPINIONATED, OUTSPOKEN, hard-debating hunters on this forum. Plus lots of GREAT animule and trophy room pics. I've always wanted that for this forum. Its kinda neat to watch 'em go! I've taught 'em well! No holding back here! Even a tired, worn-out ooooooooooooold timer like Mr. Quimby is enjoying getting into it with somebody now. Wow................I'm impressed and happy.

 

And, Stanley, of course I have an opinion on this one. Do you think I would actually disappoint you? I indeed have personal experiences with this topic. My opinion just might make this thread get ugly tho, and you know how I am the "getty-longy" type and avoid ugliness on discussion forums. Also, I'm too busy to post as it will be lengthy plus I'm still in the process of interviewing my second shift of body guards. So, bear with me, okay?

[DEERSLAM]

We always try to help the client get everything out of a hunt, not just the killing part, but the whole experience. I'll have them help me glass, teach them some tricks, hike them in a little farther so they feel like they hunted hard and in the end they are leaving with more than just the rack. I think some of those Auction tag holders never experienced any of that and most don't even care to. I even try to have clients come out a day or two early to scout with me and to hike around without the pressure of a valid tag in their pocket, I feel they have a chance then to soak it all in, making the experience that much richer. Running an outfitting business the way we do, will probably never make me much money, BUT, I will feel better about what I do!

 

Jim, I like the way you think. I wish all outfitters thought like you. You are already a rich man, just in a different way

[COOSEFAN]

What does this bull score?

 

I think this state needs to keep the "Special" tags right were they are, no more no less. It works and generates alot of wildlife and habitat dollars! If they added more, they wouldn't be as valuable. Just my $.02.

 

That Raffle tag hunt last year was an experience to say the least. It is a LOOONG story. I'll try to sum it up. The hunter is from Colorado, a 300" bull is a monster where he's from. He tells me he wants the big one and to do what it takes. I have the entire crew, spending their own money and time, scouting and helping with the hunt. We had a 400+ bull patterned and videotaped and several back-up 380-390 class bulls patterned and taped as well. The client shows up a few days early, I show him what we got and he wants the big one. I took him out to look at some of Arizona's best elk country and showed him some smaller bulls and he states he wants to go for the big one. Opening day we call in and pass on three 350-370class bulls on tape! That evening we finally get on the big one and I had him pass because the bull was walking in thick cedars and it was almost too dark. That night everyone is excited and confident we were going to have the monster on the ground the next day. Everyone was talking about which magazines we were going to be on the cover of and how fast we could get the video on the shelves at the Warehouse. The next day we wake up and the client is gone! Packed up and headed home without sayin' goodbye!!! We scrambled for a reason, worried if he was OK, and packed up camp and headed home to do "Damage Control"! We finally got a hold of him later and he said that there was too much pressure on him and on me to get the 400" bull, and he didn't really care how much bigger than 350" it was, he just wanted to kill a nice bull!! I still can't figure out why he didn't tell me that earlier! I got him back out here 5 days before the archery season started and told him it would be my brother, him and I alone and we would just hunt elk and enjoy the experience with no pressure and he could shoot the first bull he wanted. I just wanted it over at that point. He came out and brought his father and he gave me a day to try and find the Big bull but he had moved out or changed pattern so we just went and hunted elk. We called in several nice bulls and on the third day we had this bull come in to 15 yrds bugling all on tape, and it was the bull he wanted, and he took him. The client didn't want to score him and wanted everyone to know he took this bull NOT because of score, but because of the experience. The whole thing is just hard to understand or fathom for most guys because of what THEIR expectations would be if THEY had the tag, myself included! But it was his tag to do with what he wanted, I just wish he had told me what he really wanted before we collectively spent thousands of dollars in scouting and expenses. While taking the measurements for the taxi, i ran the tape on the beams and the width, the left MB is a tad over 60", the right MB is almost 57", and 41" wide. He would be a hard one to guess score on. An Outfitter once said, and it sums it all up, "Raffle Tags Are Like A Box of Chocolates......You Never Know What Yer Gonna Get!". Thanks, Jim

[DesertBull]

WOW, that sounds like a great guy who understands what the hunt is really all about. I am glad he won the raffle and not some ego maniac with a calculator and a B&C form.

 

When I get a bull that caliber, I won't let anyone come within 50 yards of it with a tape.

 

 

 

 

 

What does this bull score?

 

I think this state needs to keep the "Special" tags right were they are, no more no less. It works and generates alot of wildlife and habitat dollars! If they added more, they wouldn't be as valuable. Just my $.02.

 

That Raffle tag hunt last year was an experience to say the least. It is a LOOONG story. I'll try to sum it up. The hunter is from Colorado, a 300" bull is a monster where he's from. He tells me he wants the big one and to do what it takes. I have the entire crew, spending their own money and time, scouting and helping with the hunt. We had a 400+ bull patterned and videotaped and several back-up 380-390 class bulls patterned and taped as well. The client shows up a few days early, I show him what we got and he wants the big one. I took him out to look at some of Arizona's best elk country and showed him some smaller bulls and he states he wants to go for the big one. Opening day we call in and pass on three 350-370class bulls on tape! That evening we finally get on the big one and I had him pass because the bull was walking in thick cedars and it was almost too dark. That night everyone is excited and confident we were going to have the monster on the ground the next day. Everyone was talking about which magazines we were going to be on the cover of and how fast we could get the video on the shelves at the Warehouse. The next day we wake up and the client is gone! Packed up and headed home without sayin' goodbye!!! We scrambled for a reason, worried if he was OK, and packed up camp and headed home to do "Damage Control"! We finally got a hold of him later and he said that there was too much pressure on him and on me to get the 400" bull, and he didn't really care how much bigger than 350" it was, he just wanted to kill a nice bull!! I still can't figure out why he didn't tell me that earlier! I got him back out here 5 days before the archery season started and told him it would be my brother, him and I alone and we would just hunt elk and enjoy the experience with no pressure and he could shoot the first bull he wanted. I just wanted it over at that point. He came out and brought his father and he gave me a day to try and find the Big bull but he had moved out or changed pattern so we just went and hunted elk. We called in several nice bulls and on the third day we had this bull come in to 15 yrds bugling all on tape, and it was the bull he wanted, and he took him. The client didn't want to score him and wanted everyone to know he took this bull NOT because of score, but because of the experience. The whole thing is just hard to understand or fathom for most guys because of what THEIR expectations would be if THEY had the tag, myself included! But it was his tag to do with what he wanted, I just wish he had told me what he really wanted before we collectively spent thousands of dollars in scouting and expenses. While taking the measurements for the taxi, i ran the tape on the beams and the width, the left MB is a tad over 60", the right MB is almost 57", and 41" wide. He would be a hard one to guess score on. An Outfitter once said, and it sums it all up, "Raffle Tags Are Like A Box of Chocolates......You Never Know What Yer Gonna Get!". Thanks, Jim

[billrquimby]

"Even a tired, worn-out ooooooooooooold timer like Mr. Quimby is enjoying getting into it with somebody now. Wow................I'm impressed and happy."

 

Mr. Darnell. You've got my number, to be sure. Because of my age and health there's no way I could keep up with you. You'll be hunting (and bitching) long after I'm gone. You're a true macho man.

 

I have a challenge for you, though. Before I got so tired and worn out, I took 51 different types of big game animals -- including all ten in Arizona -- on six continents and I'm still hunting at age 70. Match that, my friend.

 

Bill Quimby

[Rembrant]

I'm a lousy hunter, so I just draw pictures.

Mike

[Noel Arnold]

Stanley,

What I do not like about the auction tag's are that they do take one trophy animal that most guy's do not get a chance to shoot.Somebody else said that it is no biggie because there are lot's of trophy animal's.I have been fortunate to hunt coues in Arizona for 33 year's.What I have found is that there are alway's monster buck's that live in very thick area's that are very hard to find.Then there are a few that live in place's that you can glass them. These are the buck's that are being taken away from all of us that are not able to pay the big buck's. As far as the money that is generated. I have no problem with getting that money other way's , like adding a raffle tag.

Noel

[JVS]

I like the idea...lots of money to protect and enhance habitat...one tag, come on. Look at it this way. There are ~25,000 elk tags given each year, right? at 83 bucks a pop, that's about 2 million dollars. I haven't kept up with the cost of the governers tag lately, but I'd guess in the ballpark of a half a million. That one tag generates a quarter of all the revenue the other tags given for the year generate. I say give two of the dang things per species...but we all know what increase in supply does? Maybe keep it at one.

[wetmule]

From what I know the raffle type tags are an incredible amount of work to promote and administer and to see it thru to the deadline - to do it right - in order to raise alot of money. The only group I know of that in the past has done a great job of going about the process of selling a raffle tag is the AZ Elk Society. They have raised alot of money with their raffle tags, that had it not been for a ton of volunteer effort, that money would not have been raised. I don't think the G & F or any other group could do what the AES has done in the past.

Now there is a group effort through the Super Raffle and those tags should produce great habitat & wildlife revenues through the group effort. One thing to note is that although most of the time an animal is harvested on these special hunts, it is not always the case and I can think of a few times when no shots were fired. A few tags every year for the money raised for wildlife is a no brainer IMO. They are not taking tags away from anyone, ALL of the money is put back on the ground in this state with no administration fees or % cut for anyone, is species specific - deer money goes directly to benefit deer, etc.

I do think it is a great idea to offer a raffle tag that allows the fortunate, lucky average joe the opportunity to go when he or she would otherwise would not be able to participate in the auction type tags, thats 99% of us. I do think these tags are maxed out in this state and I would oppose any increase in raffle or auction tag numbers.

[Noel Arnold]

I think I would still rather pay $10 extra for a tag for habitat or whatever they do with the money,then sell our biggest trophy's to the highest bidder.

Noel

[COOSEFAN]

Wetmule, I personally know the individuals responsible for how successful the Raffle tags have been for the AES, and your are right, very few people know what goes into that grueling task of pulling it off and especially as successfully as they have! They are the ones behind the scenes, altering their personal lives in exchange for helping wildlife, they deserve everyones respect for what they do!!!

 

["WOW, that sounds like a great guy who understands what the hunt is really all about. I am glad he won the raffle and not some ego maniac with a calculator and a B&C form.

 

When I get a bull that caliber, I won't let anyone come within 50 yards of it with a tape."]

 

 

DesertBull, I agree completely, but when I took that hunt on, I fully expected an entirely different client. You would think, with a once in a lifetime tag, the winner would want, and not settle for anything less, than a once in a lifetime bull!? This guy TRIED to have the mentality and goals that everyone PRESSURED him to have. It was after passing up 4 bulls, the size of which he had only seen in magazines, that he finally realized that, TO HIM, a once in a lifetime bull didn't have to be 400+. I blamed myself for a while for getting too wrapped up in killing the BIG one, but soon realized I was just trying to accomodate the client, and at the time, that was what the client wanted. I share the same beliefs as my client, and got pressured into the score game just as he did. That pressure just took alot of the fun out of the hunt, for both of us, and didn't seem worth it. When he came back, and it was just him and I, it was an incredible experience. There were only two Elk hunters in the entire state at the time, the bulls were screaming, and we knew we were going to harvest a huge bull sooner or later and it didn't matter if it was 350" or 400". Experiencing the rut in one of the best elk units in the world, with a tag in his pocket, with his father there, getting it all on video, and no pressure about score, made this HIS once in a lifetime hunt! Thats all that matters!

 

At the end of the video I created from this hunt I wrote this and it sums it all up, at least for me:

 

"Thanks to everyone who donated their time and money to helping us with this hunt. The lessons learned and the memories made were worth every second and every penny. We were reminded, and should never forget, that the measure of the hunt isn't always measured in inches, no matter what tag is in your pocket!" Thanks, Jim.

[KGAINES]

Wetmule, I personally know the individuals responsible for how successful the Raffle tags have been for the AES, and your are right, very few people know what goes into that grueling task of pulling it off and especially as successfully as they have! They are the ones behind the scenes, altering their personal lives in exchange for helping wildlife, they deserve everyones respect for what they do!!!

 

["WOW, that sounds like a great guy who understands what the hunt is really all about. I am glad he won the raffle and not some ego maniac with a calculator and a B&C form.

 

When I get a bull that caliber, I won't let anyone come within 50 yards of it with a tape."]

 

 

DesertBull, I agree completely, but when I took that hunt on, I fully expected an entirely different client. You would think, with a once in a lifetime tag, the winner would want, and not settle for anything less, than a once in a lifetime bull!? This guy TRIED to have the mentality and goals that everyone PRESSURED him to have. It was after passing up 4 bulls, the size of which he had only seen in magazines, that he finally realized that, TO HIM, a once in a lifetime bull didn't have to be 400+. I blamed myself for a while for getting too wrapped up in killing the BIG one, but soon realized I was just trying to accomodate the client, and at the time, that was what the client wanted. I share the same beliefs as my client, and got pressured into the score game just as he did. That pressure just took alot of the fun out of the hunt, for both of us, and didn't seem worth it. When he came back, and it was just him and I, it was an incredible experience. There were only two Elk hunters in the entire state at the time, the bulls were screaming, and we knew we were going to harvest a huge bull sooner or later and it didn't matter if it was 350" or 400". Experiencing the rut in one of the best elk units in the world, with a tag in his pocket, with his father there, getting it all on video, and no pressure about score, made this HIS once in a lifetime hunt! Thats all that matters!

 

At the end of the video I created from this hunt I wrote this and it sums it all up, at least for me:

 

"Thanks to everyone who donated their time and money to helping us with this hunt. The lessons learned and the memories made were worth every second and every penny. We were reminded, and should never forget, that the measure of the hunt isn't always measured in inches, no matter what tag is in your pocket!" Thanks, Jim.

 

Well said Jim, Congrats to you and the client, and thanks for the time and effort you put into a donation that will hopefully benifit us all.