Rembrant Report post Posted July 17, 2004 Wow! Turn up the heat and watch us boil! No wonder other countries never launch an assault on the US (with the exception of 9-11). Just take away a mere deer tag and you might get your face rearanged! I've been reading messages on this forum for two days, and every once in a while I have to check and see if I'm still in "coueswhitetail.com", or if I ended up on one of those other forums. I am thankful that a lot of the regulars are quietly sitting back and letting this tornado pass over. Let's see now... could there be anything good come of all this USO vs. Game Dept business? Maybe a whole bunch of people got ticked off enough to start going to Game and Fish Dept meetings to offer their input. And maybe a whole bunch more people didn't get quite so ticked off but now realize the importance of sportsman's input as opposed to just sitting at home doing nothing. And maybe some existing sportsman's groups or possibly some new sportsman's groups will figure out some ways to make their presence known with the Dept. and on the political front for the cause of protecting our hunting rights. And maybe because of this fiasco the Dept leaders and legal team will handle things like this much better in the future. Here are some other good thoughts: This fight isn't over. There can still be appeals. And the Dept can do some creative restructuring of the hunts to diffuse the problem. Remember when the antis had a judge to put an injunction on some depredation elk hunts a number of years back that stopped the hunts on the first day? Then the next year the depredation hunts were included in the normal hunt structure - preventing an injunction on "extra killing"? The Dept is on our side folks. More good thoughts: The draw for the Coues deer hunts, as well as all the mule deer hunts (south of the Grand Canyon), and the sheep, antelope and turkey hunts will take place as per normal this year. The North Rim/Strip deer tags and all the bull elk tags are gonna be really tough to draw this year. But wait a minute, haven't those same deer and elk tags been really tough to draw for about 15-20 years now? Of course it's gonna be worse this year with all those out-of-state apps in there, but just exactly how many more non-Arizonans than the 10% cap will there actually be? Does anybody know? It'll probably be real ugly for those deer units and a few choice elk units. Or will it? The principle of the matter is enough to get upset about - I agree. But I see us going into hyper-heat over something we can't even define at this point. Yet another good thought: The reason we and all those out-of-staters want to hunt Arizona is a direct result of sound big game management. This is no accident. It seems to me that the Dept could have done a better job of handling this USO situation, yet to those of you who are accusing the Arizona Game and Fish Dept of total incompetence, your thinking is irrational. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
az4life Report post Posted July 18, 2004 Well said! And from one who has observed and responded with a reasonable tone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike ornoski Report post Posted July 18, 2004 I was their also. I could not beleave How self centered some of those people were. 4 peaks, wild west and a bunch of others.They are no worse then uso all they cared about was them selves and how they are affected. if you look at the regs, and g@f results one line, they have intell the 23rd. I think this good to apoint also so people will get involved. I have an idea, raise elk tag to $1000, they must have to purchase licence unrefundable. put dollars up front for tag, complete in person a az hunter saftey class. the first elk tag must be a cow tag before a bull tag is given . mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted July 18, 2004 personally, i feel that resident Az. hunters have given up enough and it's time to take some real action. what good does it do to support a director that doesn't support us? and shroufe doesn't. he backs down to anyone who is "offended". get rid of shroufe, get rid of the present commissioners and go from there. if shroufe and his staff were tough negotiators this would have been reconciled long ago and we'd all be either planning on our fall Az. hunts or ticked off because we didn't get drawn. not one tag, men. not one tag. and Arizona for Arizonans. Lark Hubbard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
az4life Report post Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) Mike I agree and felt some disappointment that these folks were the ones that the commissioners will remember, and for the wrong reasons. I sat next to the podium and had a clear view of the facial expressions and reactions the commissioners gave when everyone was speaking. Although a fair amount had decent points and good speaking presence, there were quite a few that could have fit right in with a Jef Foxworthy skit if they were given a "sign". GreyGhost I also agree that the AZ residents should not give up more for the sake of equality with non residents. The Commission has been dealing with a lot more than this one issue though. None of us like the problem we are facing, but if the commission was all bad, we would likely be in a lot worse condition. I will support them since changing boats in midstream is not usually wise. thanks all! Edited January 1, 1970 by az4life Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lark Hubbard Report post Posted July 19, 2004 watching a boat sink that has all you care about on it doesn't make much sense either. especially when a change in the captain would have kept it from sinking. this is issue is lost. ain't no way we're gonna come out even as good as it was. what i'm worried about is future issues that shroufe can screw up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
