1uofacat

Congrats! My suggestion, along with the great info herein, is get at least 2 very good/loyal friends who own and have used good pack frames to help you get your elk out! Offer to and feed them well so they feel committed to you, and they'll more than make up for it. It helps if they can actually help "guide" you, but that's not necessarily a requirement. While perhaps on the funny side, it's also a serious suggestion! If you haven't been on an elk hunt and helped take care of a downed animal, you're in for a big surprise as they can be huge animals, especially when you're on your own. Don't underestimate what it takes to get one out and care for it properly.

not really, certainly not for those still checking their accounts and/or hope that the hits keep on coming.

While what you're doing is not necessarily worse, you are IMO no better than the guys who "sold" their points in the past. I'm not going to pass judgement on whether or not that makes you "evil", but you are knowingly abusing the system in a way it was not intended, and to myself that's wrong because by so-doing people who abuse the system are potentially stealing tags from other "honest" applicants, loophole or not. Here's hoping it doesn't work out for those who knowingly abuse the system! I'd personally rather see someone with no bonus points get a tag than someone who is knowingly abusing the system to increase their odds against others who aren't. This comes down to morals. If there was a loophole that allowed "buddy hunting", would you do it because you could legally "get away with it"? If you found a wallet on the ground with a lot of money and someone's ID would you return it? What if they were robbed at gunpoint and the "thief" by accident dropped the wallet on the ground and you found it? What if it was your wallet? Would you want someone to return it to you? There's no law that says you have to... It comes down to right & wrong... we all know what that is. & BTW, we all love to hunt, so don't justify your reason to abuse the system just because you love to hunt where it is increasingly hard to draw, and you can get away with it. BTW, there is no law that says you can't legally take a game camera left on a tree in the forest either, but I believe most of us know the "unspoken" law that it's wrong to do so. Would you take game cameras too? Is increasing your odds "unfairly, but 'legally'" and therefore potentially taking another hunter's tag any different? If by chance you do get drawn, I sincerely hope you take your daughter out and let her hunt with you. The benefits of even a few days in the field with her will likely more than outweigh any benefit you get by abusing the system we have, regardless of whether or not others do it. just my thoughts...

The system we have now is what it is... some say better than before, others won't agree that it is. Hopefully they continue to reduce the opportunity for some to take advantage of the system "flaws" allowing those who will find ways to abuse the "intent". I don't know what that is, but would also willingly help the G&F figure out how to make it better. For now at least it's still a lottery that I feel for the most part works in spite of those who take advantage of it. My wife didn't want to hunt this year and is sitting on a fair number of points so she didn't put in for a tag just so I could go out and say, "Look through here and pull the trigger." Unfortunately I'm sure there are many who do just that. When she wants to hunt again she will apply, but not before. She likes going out, just not being a shooter (at least not this year). She has taken elk before BTW.

every year since 2008 edit... he did draw another juniors tag in 2012 btw, his last year for a junior's hunt.

Well, I do have two of my sons in w/CCs, but my app was paper so I won't know for probably at least a week. I have found in the past few years hearing everyone else who doesn't draw helps ease the pain somewhat when I find out I haven't draw a tag, especially if one of my kids pulls a tag with a CC app. I recommend trying that strategy, it's better than anti-depressants!

That's "mostly" true IMO, but not always. When my 13 yr old son took a cow at 30 yds in a 6A juniors hunt, with a nice bull bugling 20 yards away from us, he specifically asked me to put him in for a bull tag for the next year. When applying the following year, he reminded me that he wanted a bull tag, so I reluctantly went ahead and put him in for a Sept. rifle bull first choice, juniors cow second choice knowing his odds were 1/100 of drawing the rifle bull tag. He not only drew the rifle bull tag, but took a nice 6x with it! ... his one and only bull tag to date btw.

it is reasonable, and for the few that "abuse" the system by putting in grandmas and grandpas or their wives who will never set foot afield, I'm sure there have been tags wasted every year when multiple tags are drawn by those who don't hunt. They used to require the tag holder to accompany the youth hunter, and that stopped some of the abuse perhaps, but for the kids who do get to hunt, well we're all probably better off for it in spite of those who abuse it. That said, when signing over tags started we didn't have the pointguard system so some of the "wasted tags" are probably reduced some nowadays. Too bad we can't see how many tags are signed over to junior hunters every year. It may a lot fewer than we think. As Saguaro said though, kids don't need a big game tag to hunt. As a kid growing up I certainly looked forward to a dove hunt more-so than a deer hunt. As a "junior", elk wasn't an option. For "us" however, there is not much that compares to an elk tag and why we're here online talking about it in February!

Are you kidding? Do you realize how many people will have several days more of "hope" if it's delayed because of the "unseen" bad news (cards not being hit when others are)? When it starts, this site gets very active with those who come on mainly to share their joy and elation, as well as those who come on to brag, which none of us want to read about, along with the "good luck to those who draw", or "don't worry it's not over yet" comments. When cards starting getting hit and yours is not, it's hard not to have a meltdown of sorts. I certainly used to get depressed when my card wasn’t hit before going back to paper apps, although there's always some in our hunting party that apply with cards that we will be happy for. The longer it goes, the harder it gets to have hope too, whereas before it starts we all have the same "hope" and can smile about it starting the next day! How much is it to hunt elk in Colorado with an OTC tag nowadays?

I had an interesting finding a short while ago. I applied for elk w/paper in early January, however put in for one of my sons in late January including purchasing a new license as well. When I went online to change the card today I was re-directed to another site that handles the "payment" details. That's where it got "interesting"... The site I was directed to listed his home address as the card's BILLING ADDRESS, not the billing address I entered in late January and tied to the card I used. Since I don't trust the G&F to get it right, and even though I was able to get his license charged & printed etc., I'm not convinced that this discrepancy wouldn't cause the CC company to rejected the charge as the billing address wouldn't match my card's billing address. Since he's likely to get drawn for what he wanted to be put in for, he may have become a casualty of "credit card mistakes" although I did nothing wrong when submitting his application (putting in my "billing address" and his "home address" where I was asked to put them in, which were clearly different). I changed it all with a new card number and billing address...

as always, whenever you're having a "full day" at work, just log on to get big grin and a good laugh, especially over the next week or two!

If your account wasn't charged, your app may not have gone in. That said, I think you should wait until March and find out if it worked!

525 archery elk tags in 5BN... too many cow tags.

It's a shooter IMO first and foremost... unless you have another that you've scouted and want to hold out for. 105 looks right, but as noted herein it's hard to tell with just pics. I will say that most hunters overestimate scores on animals. Ignoring all the NT points is hard for most and often adds to inflated numbers in addition to only looking/scoring the smaller of each...

What unit(s) do you know better? Are you an accomplished archer? Remember you can find quality bulls in every unit, but more in some. 23S can be a rough hunt, but sounds like that's not an issue for you. I haven't hunted 23S, but know some who do and they find those large bulls every year in those deep nasty canyons. Either way, I can't believe you waited 20 years (or more) for a bull tag! That's a long, long time, too long IMO. My son drew a September rifle bull tag when he was 15, a year after he took an elk with a juniors tag in 6A, so you just never know who will get those September rifle tags! I will say that a late September rifle tag was a lot of fun in 5BN back in 2008. With that many points I'd probably put in for unit 9 archery, and consider where else I'd like to go aside from 9 and forgo a rifle tag... unless archery isn't really your thing. Unit 1 & 27 used to be my favorite units prior to the Wallow Fire. I haven't hunted there since... family does, but like said before, it's just not the same, perhaps never will be. Either way, good luck, you've waited a long time!

Good job! You'll remember that for a long time...

September

Good choice on not passing up the spike! Sounds like you earned it, especially for that hunt, and a young bull like that should be great eating. Congrats! I can't say it gets easier, but a September tag typically gives you a lot more opportunities than what it sounded like you had.

According to NOAA, there is up to 11 inches forecast as possible in the Flagstaff area from now through Sunday. Typically we won't see near as much as prediction models indicate. To me, the snow isn't so bad (aside from limited visibility during storms), but the wind would be very disheartening. I think I'll use my smoker on the porch this weekend on some elk backstrap! Best of luck to those braving the elements!

Those were some great pics, too bad they were all 4 years ago!

If you're seeing fresh tracks, but not elk, try cow calling... make a "stand", call for 15 min or so. It can work.

Evidently! haha Below you can see the entrance wound on my bull (not a real good pic for that, but you can make out where it is). The exit wound was a mirror of the right side (broadside 37 yds). We had very little external blood so the blood trail on this bull was almost non-existent, however the arrow was a complete pass-through including the top half of the heart & shearing ribs on both sides and the chest cavity was full of blood. The arrow just missed the humerus on both legs (just above it). This bull went about 200 yards and was dead w/in a cpl minutes. Second pic shows the "L-type" cut typical of many single bevel broadheads as they pass through tissue.

Swhacker for a frontal shot? It's possible he had a good angle and the bull just got his head in the way, but if he was shooting at a quartering toward him or frontal shot with an expandable broadhead I'd say that's a great mentality to have if one doesn't care about contributing to lost animals. Expandables can work well on broadside shots, but that angle looks suspect.

great story, and you're right on regarding waiting before tracking an animal you can't see. One of the worst things you can do is to push an animal that's been hit by an arrow, especially a bull as tough as they are. An hour is what we wait, minimum, but that all depends on the circumstances. If it's raining, you probably need to change your tactics, and for gut shots, you may want to wait for several hours, but each situation is different. Congrats!

looks like you did better than "OK"! Great job!