CJohnson

Outfitters don't take precedence. How did you get that from my comments? I was obviously referring to the wknd warriors who also "bend and break" these rules. Did you just self-implicate?? THEY have no business in the field. And THEY far outnumber these outfitters or guides you guys keep talking about who truly are bending and breaking these rules. Drive up to the Kaibab during the general rifle hunt and you'll see what I'm talking about. Or 6A during archery elk season. But apparently some of you think that outfitters and guides are the problem as a whole. I've run into some plain BS from guides and outfitters in the field. A couple happen to be sponsors of this site! But these infractions are few and far between compared to the armed hikers who call themselves hunters

Thats cause half of them are guilty of the same bull crap antics... Ignorant statement. Most aren't commenting because it doesn't matter. What this chad guy did (and has done in the past) is wrong and I agree, he should've gotten more. Bashing another outfitter because he's a tool is redundant and defending him would certainly be counterproductive. you sir are ignorant if you dont think outfitters bend or break every rule there is. legally and ethically. have you ever seen some of the big names that have been busted in the not so distant past in Arizona? AverageJoe stated that "half of them are guilty of the same bull crap antics". Really?? Half of the outfitters out there are flying and herding animals? Pushing and driving animals to and from properties for their clients to shoot?? Bending and breaking every rule there is?? Literally, a bunch of ignorant comments and insinuations. You're doing the very same thing that any ill-informed anti hunter does: takes one (or maybe a few "big name") jack-butt hunters and lumps them all into the same group. If you don't see the hypocrisy then there's no use continuing this conversation. Step out from behind your computer sometime and get to know a couple of outfitters sometime. Regardless of what you think of their choice of profession, you'd most likely find that many of them abide by most of the rules far greater than the majority of hunters do. #1 because It's their job and livelihood to know and abide by those rules. Clearly some ignore them, but hardly comparable to the wknd warriors who have no business in the field.

Thats cause half of them are guilty of the same bull crap antics... Ignorant statement. Most aren't commenting because it doesn't matter. What this chad guy did (and has done in the past) is wrong and I agree, he should've gotten more. Bashing another outfitter because he's a tool is redundant and defending him would certainly be counterproductive.

In theory, it shouldn't. But in reality, it COULD. Say you kill 25 bucks over 200". I think A3 killed almost half that this year up there?? If all of those bucks were between 6-8yrs old, and each individual hunter passed on at least one 5-7yr old buck during the hunt, in theory you'll have the next age class of a buck the following year. Right? But there are several factors that need to be considered over the next year. In theory, you can't kill genetics. But you can certainly put a hurt on a genetic line. In a vacuum, just as many older age class bucks (along with genetics) will be running around next year. We're not in a vacuum. With predation and drought (hard winters), negative effects could easily be noticeable on the age class of bucks. A couple of things to consider is fawn crop. It's usually an after-thought....until several years later when there's a big age class gap, or, if you're lucky, dozens of 200+" bucks are running around like this year. Lastly, many outfitters know what class of an animal is practical in killing before the season starts. I imagine this year they all knew that passing on a 185" buck was a no brainer. But on other years, that might be the the holy grail! This year was exceptional, no doubt. For mule deer and wt. What we have to be careful with is our expectations for next year. It could be another banner year. Or it could be 2002 all over again. Either way, holding out for mature bucks will only create more mature bucks in the end. But the majority of our hunts and hunters wouldn't allow that. And mature doesn't always equate to size, if that makes sense?

So are you saying this is a common practice with lion hunters? Im confused Sorry for the confusion. I'm saying lion hunters do it for that reason alone, not necessarily "often". Most likely because 1, not every lion hunter cares to get pics and 2, the situation would most likely need to be right to consider going through the trouble (how fresh is the kill, do they even have a camera handy, is it a specific lion they're targeting, etc...) And as for the knots, it looks this person never made it beyond Bobcat.

Lion hunters tie them up so they can get pictures/video of the lion on the kill so they can't drag it out of the field of view. And then most likely to run the kill the next morning. This isn't a lion hunter. I'd lean more towards what hoghntr is saying. Someone was hoping this deer wouldn't be found and scattered away from the tree (bear, lion, coyotes??), and hoping the camera owner wouldn't find it either.

This is terrible and I hope they're caught. Unfortunately it takes all but catching them red-handed to actually prosecute. Sad. Certainly a trail cam photo would've been damning, but..... Truth is, there are cases where antis go to these lengths. But let's be completely honest with the "facts" presented so far. More than likely it was a disgusting poacher dressed like a hunter, with no regard to the law or our animals.

That's a giant buck...when do we get to hear a little story to go along with such an animal?

Wow! Great deer! Tell us the story!!!

There's a certain sponsor on this site who likes to block roads up on the kaibab. Yes I was there. Classy outfitter!

You did the right thing. It's rather simple- treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Obviously you won't get the same in return because there are just too many ego-driven a-holes in the field. But I'll take a good conscience over a good deer any day.

Once again, let's just pass the buck off on someone else (Larry). In the end it was all him. HE left his tag in camp. None of this would matter if he chose to abide by the laws he swore to uphold. Period.

Ummm, we got the whole story. So let me get this straight: He CLEARLY broke the law, along with his G&F buddies. Not only does he walk away from it all without consequence, he gets promoted!! Then because his employer is incompetent in the whole ordeal (hence the fact that he wasn't held accountable) he got $100,000 of your tax payer dollars. But because he's a "nice guy" we just forget about it??? Hahaha!!!

He had a scheduled surgery. I ask you glass house, would you not have done the same? The guys that shot it and used another tag are the "guilty" party. Wrong. The ONLY tag you can have in your possession is your OWN. In addition, knowingly leaving your OWN tag in the possession of someone else with the knowledge that they're going to finish off an animal for you makes you just as guilty. He CLEARLY knew what he was doing was illegal.

Govt employees will never be held accountable like you or I. In fact, I'm pretty sure the term "accountability" was removed from any of their mission statements or honor codes. They protect themselves; all the while union leaderships tend to just protect the bad apple constituents and negotiate bread crumbs for the rest.

^^^^ this

In my experience, those big heavy bullets like to poke little holes in these coues deer. Taking multiple shots. Of course there's always exceptions. Not enough animal to deliver optimal energy in many cases. Bullet type obviously plays a big role as already stated.

Look like LTX AT2's

What happened to the picture of the bull? I have 13 points and like those units. I'm not gonna "hire" a contractor until I see their work.

Because we don't hunt with stones and spears anymore, that's why.

mc68, It's rather simple, my friend. Regardless of what you do with the information, there's plenty of others that might do something different with that info. Lets see all these big animals you've killed. I'd especially love to see that wt from 31!!

It's simple: you're profiting (being compensated in one way or another) for assisting someone in the taking of wildlife. Basically the definition of a guide. Most likely nothing would come of it.....unless you or your BP buddy shot a monster bull. Then things always get complicated. Just be careful how you do this. And if anyone considers taking this guy up on his offer, be just as careful. You're probably an honest guy with great intentions. Just be careful all the way around.

Great job buddy.

Great job at not giving up! I'm not very good at finding sheds.

gotcoues, This is a special deer. You won't be hated for shooting it. BIG congratulations.