mattys281

Little Bear, Although some of what you are saying is true if you dont believe that the sharp increase in the lion population is having a big impact on our Deer herds you are only fooling yourself. Remember a little place called the Kaibab Plateau & what happened when the natural predators were eradicated there? A huge explosion in the mule deer herd, which led to them exceeding the carrying capacity for the environment & subsequently resulted in massive starvation & disease. That was only a few decades ago. Any predator/prey system will eventually come into equilibrium. That having been said though, I don’t think the success rate of lion hunters is high enough to significantly impact their numbers anyway, and it sure doesn’t seem like coyotes are in short supply. At least not around my house. Why not set something up for after the winter hunts, around the March to April time frame? Be a nice break for those of us who didn’t draw spring hunt tags.

lol. As long as that chute plane is pony powered!

This maybe old new, but I just had it e-mailed to me so thought I would share. Apparently this giant was killed by an Amish guy named John Schmucker in Ohio. He shot it with a crossbow. Check out his, uhmm... transportation. Now that's the definition of a traditionalist.

I'm game for a varmit hunt. Maybe we could get it organized like a "big pig" contest. Give a prize to who ever shoots the biggest coyote.

Transplant sheep & antelope all over the place, but apparenlty 29 deer aren't worth that much effort. Seems very wasteful to me.

That Vectrix nearly got me to switch from PSE, until I picked it up.... What a tank! I'll go ahead & order my Diablo. Might not be as quite w/out all the dampeners, but it'll feel a lot better on my back pack.

Don't give too much credit, what you see is actually an act of extreme selfishness. I had the same ephinany causing scenario that Jack wrote about, except mine was 180 degrees the other way. Now I'm dedicated to the sole purpose of doing what ever I want when I want, & guess what tops the list ? Did someone in the back say bowhunting? We have a correct answer! Unfortunately, I'll be out of town over that weekend, but will be planning on the next meeting. My granny's on her way out, so we're heading to San Diego for a visit while she's still here. I hope your wrong on your prediction, but according to PETA, less than 5% of our population hunts. If that's the case than we need to do whatever we can to reinstate the public image of hunters as conservationists who always gives back more than they take, otherwise we'll never sway the massive nonhunting population to support us. Especially with groups like this slinging mud in a cut throat attempt to make us look like barbarians. I believe it was their president that openly admits, "we're media sluts." That means they'll do or say anything to get in the media & make their argument. Add to that the fact that if they get some ludicrous little factoid that smears us on the front page & it later is proved false, where does the retraction go? Page D16, right between the city dining section & the classifieds. We have to make as much noise as they do or else your prediction will be right on the money.

I know B&C recognizes bow shot game, but this was taken via crossbow. Do they accept those?

Here's a quote from PETA's site. Pain and Suffering Many animals suffer prolonged, painful deaths when they are injured but not killed by hunters. A member of the Maine Bowhunters Alliance estimates that 50 percent of animals who are shot with crossbows are wounded but not killed.(7) A study of 80 radio-collared white-tailed deer found that of the 22 deer who had been shot with “traditional archery equipment,” 11 were wounded but not recovered by hunters.(8) Twenty percent of foxes who have been wounded by hunters are shot again; 10 percent manage to escape, but “starvation is a likely fate” for them, according to one veterinarian.(9) A South Dakota Department of Game, Fish, and Parks biologist estimates that more than 3 million wounded ducks go “unretrieved” every year.(10) A British study of deer hunting found that 11 percent of deer who’d been killed by hunters died only after being shot two or more times and that some wounded deer suffered for more than 15 minutes before dying.(11) Without identifying this person or providing his/her credentials, the words are posted on the world wide web behind a host of celebrity endorsments saying that we're bad guys. People should make it a point to become more involved with groups that support our cause, because our opponents are making a strong push to gather people to their cause. PETA claims to have over 1 million members. That's a heck-uv-a-lot for a group which is recognized as being the most radical environmentalist group in the country.

It could go in the B&C book, couldn't it? Looks like it'll score enough.

I think in some ways the indians of a hundred years ago had a couple of advantages on us & we have others on them. They didn't have the technology that we all have now, but they didn't go into the woods once or twice a week after work either. They lived there 24/7 & also had a much better herd to hunt before the settlers came and made all these land "improvements" that we now live in. Technology helps us make the most of our limited time. The question I pose is that as we continue to see more gadgets, some of which do significantly improve success rates (laser range finders, trail cams, etc.) what's going to happen to tag quantities? Maybe we'll become so efficient that AZG&F won't be able to offer enough tags for all of us. Think it's hard to draw a unit 1 bull tag now?

Someone started a board on this same topic yesterday titled "Heads up for you Mexico hunters." One of the replies on there has a link to a White House report on the border issue. It's about 40 pages, but well worth your time to read it.

Amanda: They had the date & a phone number on the site. Can you give me the location & time? Thanks. Matt S.

Man, Allen, you don't know how right you are. I talked to a gentleman who is one of the co-chair.'s for the local MDF in Mesa last night for about 20 minutes. He says that the Mesa chapter is the only one of the four in Az that is currently open. The have 3 committee members & due to a severe lack of members volunteering they are currently not involved in any projects in this state. He also said that he’s stepping down after this year (his third on the committee), due to the fact that in his words he is, “just too burned out.” I also did some more poking around on the ADA’s website. If you look at their even calendar, they’ve got something going on just about every month. Called them to see if their board meetings are open to non-members, but haven’t heard back yet. They seem like a really great organization, but I want to get some personal experience with them before joining. Anyone on here a member of theirs? Take care. Matt S.

Any conversation of length will eventual meander on to other related topics. You should be proud for starting this one. 7 pages & still counting! That might not get you into the P&Y book, but it has to be some kind of record for this discussion forum. P.S. I changed my mind after reading that report from the whitehouse. I don't want to run into any illegals.

Ernesto: Sorry, but I asked my daughter and she said she doesn't want a brother. Desertbull: If someone with a family of 8 with a 9th on the way didn't learn what was causing his predictament after siring three or four kids, he should not expect society to support him and seven or eight others. He needs to get a trade. Raising the minimum wage is inflationary. 12 to 18 months after raising it, and all that will happened is the price of everything will have gone up a notch and the actual status of the guys at the bottom will not have changed. He still will not be earning a "living" wage. Bill Quimby Not only has their status not changed, but the status of the rest of us has worsened. Unless of course you're luck enough to work for someone who's going to compensate you for the increase. I'm not particularly frightened of either, but would still rather run into the lion. As of yet, the only one I've ever seen was in someones front yard. Go figure!

As bad as the rifle looks, I'll bet his shorts & jeans look even worse.

Desertbull: That whole thing just makes me want to vomit. I haven't had a minimum wage job since my junior year in high school and don't see why any one who isn't either A.) in high school or B.) retired & starting a name tag collection should have a minimum wage job. That crap about raising a family on it is ridiculous. It was a good idea back in the 19th century when people were working in chicken plucking factories for 20 cents a day, but has far outlived its usefulness. Let supply & demand rule wages. If you have a skill and at least a moderate dose of common sense, then you'll be in high demand and in short supply, which equals a premium wage. Mr. Quimby: Couldn’t agree more. We bought a house last summer & are looking for acreage this year. Probably in the south or midwest. I would like a piece of dirt big enough to hang a couple treestands on. We’ve considered buying a rental property, but I already work overtime & run 2 businesses part-time. I don’t think I have the energy to manage rentals on top of that. I have a little machine shop in my garage that I will be adding a CNC mill to in the next couple months. Once I get that on the floor, it’ll generate revenue on its own while I’m at my archery store or sitting on my couch playing x-box. I’m pretty excited about that. Technology may have been the death of the machinist trade, but I’m not too proud to take advantage of it!

The part that really burns me is when they charge you a "trespass fee". I can understand them not wanting litter or damage to their private property, but it doesn' seem right to have to pay a private person a fee to use public land.

I checked out ADA's website after Scott's post. They seem like a really cool group. I really liked what I saw of their deer clinics & their kid's camps. I wonder if they have a clinic for bowhunters that have no trouble connecting on other animals, but somehow manage to always miss deer? For a friend of mine, of course. Seems like they're really active. They one thing I did notice is that they are a new group & only have 500 members. MDF claims to have 10,000. W/ 3 local chapters here in Az, that could potentially equal out to significantly more pull. They both seem like excellent organization on the surface, though.

I figured it was deer association, but didn't know if it was American, Az, or whatever. Thanks.

Thank you Mr. Quimby, I agree & am optimistic. I also am ashamed to admit it, but sitting here now, still young at 28, I have to say that I was better off at 20 than now. Which is sad, because my salary is twice as much now as it was than. I made the mistake of marrying young & then made the next mistake of letting my wife (ex-wife now, thank god!) run the finances. Ultimately, I can't blame her because I allowed it to happen, but when I received the, "I'm unhappy, and, ohh yeah, I'm also seeing someone else" speech I got to leave the house with practically all of "our" debt on my credit. During a 2 1/2 year marriage I went from about $5000 of debt to over $50k. She had forged my signature on a couple of credit apps that I didn't even know about until after we were separated. Add a 3 year long divorce that accrued over $10k in lawyer bills and you've got someone who learned a very hard lesson. I just thank God that it happened while I'm young enough to rebuild.

Okay, I'll probably need my dunce cap after this, but I'm drawing a blank. What is the ADA? I was on the Mule Deer Foundation's website earlier. They seem like a good organization & have three local chapters in Az. Here's a quote about their goals as stated on their "about us" page: "MDF's goals center on restoring, improving and protecting mule deer habitat, which result in self-sustaining, healthy, free-ranging, and huntable mule deer populations. MDF achieves its goals through partnering with state and federal wildlife agencies, conservation groups, businesses and individuals to fund and implement habitat enhancement projects on both public and private lands. MDF projects are reviewed and recommended by state-based Technical Advisory Committees (TAC), which consist of representatives from state and federal natural resource agencies, university wildlife management departments, and the MDF state chair (volunteer position) and regional director." I've got the phone number for their co-chair person in the Mesa chapter & am planning to call later this evening. Only questions I have for him so far are: 1.) Is their politcal presence in this state proactive or reactive? 2.) What current projects are they working on in Az? If anyone else wants to add to the list, I'll check again before I leave at 4:30 & let you all know what he says tomorrow. I particularly like the part about "free-ranging, and huntable mule deer populations." Sounds like a nice vision to me.

Any suggestions on a group? I've heard of a couple of mule deer preservation groups & of course the Rocky Mountain Elk foundation, but don't know specifically where they stand on hunting or how active they are in Az. It seems to me like a top item on the agenda should be trying to stop the development of our state, or at least slow it down. Case in point, unit 19A. Those antelope didn't stand a chance against the builders.

Mr. Quimby: I agree on the point of literacy & business, but only because I believe manufacturing to be on it's way out in this country as our economy moves towards being completely service based. That's what concerns me, quite frankly. I hear the numbers all over the news about our GDP & what-not, but the problem I see with those figures is that the GDP is a measure of all goods & services produced. How much of the service consumption is based on credit spending? It's fine for this year, but sooner or later people have to put away the credit cards & start paying down the debt. They've tried hard to keep us spending w/ their interest rate cuts & interest only mortgages, etc., but I don't think that any credit based system can go on indefinetely. Also, while we're talking about it, I did a little research on the web this morning, & according to our Treasury Dep., public held debt is up to over $4.9 trillion dollars, compared to $3.8 trillion at the end of the fiscal year in '97. $4,920,158,909,794.45 to be exact. That's almost 30% in ten years! Also, they say that bankruptcy filings for people under the age of 25 are up more than 50% since 1991. Yikes! I guess those fancy zero down SUVs & their payments catch up to you sooner or later. Now time for my morning serving of humble pie. Both the teen pregnancy rate & the dropout rate have been declining steadily since the '70's, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. I could swear that I'd hear differently on the news, but who's to say? I have to admit it when I'm wrong. p.s. I'll try to watch my grammar, but usually am flying through a post while between duties, so don't bother w/ the spellcheck. Good thing I didn't find any stats on the number of man hours spent on cwt.com during the course of a day!