krp

And another obvious I've been waiting for others to see on their own. Two tags will be pulled out of the 20% pass that wouldn't have. And one returned. Two people get screwed. Kent

My first elk tag was archery in '84. Back then it was all the units from 27 around to 4A. I hadn't even seen a live elk before except some cows eating on the road around Forest Lakes once driving by. Though I used to drive up to Woods canyon to fish, throw a bag on the ground to sleep. right on the rim where the 300 road turns, and have loud, weird birds wake me up in the mornings. Didn't know it was elk until an old hunter brought a bugle to deer camp. Back then a bugle was a piece of looped sink pipe, blow in it and it ran the scale up and down. I had been chasing deer in the desert around Mesa with an old bow, never got close enough for a shot. Late archery season started thanksgiving and then the new year after. Any deer, either sex, seemed if I was quail hunting the deer were in easy bow range and if I was bow hunting they weren't and quail running around my feet... of course. Anyway my brother's BIL came down from Washington state to help pour concrete with us. He had stories of shooting elk with a bow, helped me improve that old bow of mine and it gave me the bug. After drawing that first tag I bought a new bow, Golden Eagle, because that's what he shot, got set up and practiced all summer. Hunted around Woods Canyon and Forest lakes. Always in elk, blew some stalks and had a big bull at 20 yards broadside that I shot over his back. It was the most exciting, humbling, disappointing, self blaming and best hunt I had ever experienced. I didn't put in for archery again till '89. 3C, had to choose a unit by then. More action, more exciting, bigger disappointments,more self blame. Shot a large bull quartering at me some and caught the platter bone. I was beat myself up on how dumb I was hunting elk with a bow. '91, killed a 350+ herd bull in the same spot... had my broadhead and couple inches of shaft still stuck in his shoulder. '96, '97 drew 3C, odds were still around 25%, my buddies were putting in with me by then so we had 3 tags every year. We killed decent bulls both years. I have drawn 4B a couple times and 23 november as second choice by myself. Every year I've went on someone else's hunt in 3C or 23 except a couple. Hunted the rez raghorn/cow, helped on youth cow tags. Then I decided I wanted one more 3C rut tag, back then it was 12 BPs to draw in the 20% pass... now it's 11. I had 11 this year but decided to wait for next year. Last year it started on the 11th and was hotter than I've ever experienced, lows at high 50s. Elk were killable but I'm wanting the experience again. This year it starts on the 9th, next on the 15th. In my experience the action and sounds in the woods change around the 18th... I want more than five days of that action. I won't ever wait for a rut hunt again, I actually like the archery 23 november hunt. Anyway I have 12 points because the hunt started on the 9th this year. Now I have to decide if I'm going to finish my plan... or think of my granddaughter and get her a late 23 rifle hunt where it's not difficult to kill a nice 300ish bull. Then have 19 points to pull the 3C archery, or possibly early rifle depending on 20% pass or a 23 early archery. It's almost a waste of my long waited for points to use them just for me... now Except someone gets screwed out of a 23 rifle tag that I don't want. Next in line seldom would be who would have drawn given 2nd choice draws. Especially Dec coues tags and mule deer tags. Kent

Saw some at Bashas or Albersons the other day, I'll keep an eye out. Josey Wales, best movie ever made.We used to watch it and my daughter would say she's counting how many times he spits, but never was able to remember all the way to the end. Kent

G&F is selling this as insurance for 'your' points, if something untoward happens to you. 'You' need to buy this every year if you have more than the minimum points. They are not acknowledging any of what we are talking about. Though there were plenty of acknowledgment in the meetings and emails about this a couple years ago. I'm sure they will be surprised at the developments of this policy and how many tags come back to them in the next few years. Kent

Don't forget about your points. If you want a unit 1 archery bull tag, it is going to take 12 points to be gurenteed a tag. So between you and your family member, you are going to have to average out to 12. Your scenario works out best if your family member has 22 and you have 2. This effects midrange units. Late rifle that takes 5 to 8 points, archery that takes up to 8, which are the most ... even 3C cow takes 5 BPs to get to the 20% pass. Kent

That is where I figure you were going. Doesn't work that way. See the exerpt I posted above from the regs. Your license must be valid on the last day of the application deadline, not the day you apply. The license you buy on Feb 1 will not be valid on the final day of the application deadline the following year. Take 2016 and 2017 for example. Let's say you bought your license in 2016 on the last day possible for elk which was 2/09/16. In 2017 that draw deadline will be on 2/14/17 (second Tuesday in February). You license is no longer valid. you can put in with a license that is expired. You just can't hunt with it. Maybe online it boots you but if you put it on paper app it's not a problem. I made up a number up a couple years ago, I called them they said no problem as long as you have a good one in the field OK, I didn't want to personally put that info out... but ya, you don't have to buy a license. Kent

As always, my contributions are free. I've had plenty of offers to join the professional hunting and fishing world. No thanks. Kent

Looking at the descending calendar of 2nd tues in feb. And starting with a proxy that doesn't fish or hunt, isn't old enough to get a pioneer or young enough to pay 5 bucks... so no existing license. Year 2016 37 - 13 2017 37 - 13 starts new cycle 2018 13 2019 37 - 13 2020 13 2021 37 - 13 2022 13 2023 37 - 13 starts new cycle 2024 13 Loyalty and HE if they will do the class 11 BPs 302.00 Year 10 add 135 - 37 - 13 - 5 = 190.00 on the giveback tag Year 11 they will have 12 BPs add 135 - 13 and get them to hunt their tag with yours. Or skip the next year just have them keep adding to the 12 for future years and you can add a few BPs of your own, the 2 for 1 plan. Kent

I don't think they have decided how to do it yet. We may still see a premium membership only or some such. Problem is we can't even say now there is abuse of the draw, just that there is a new system. with new variables. 1st and 2nd choice Bounus points 20% pass 80% general Surrender Tag redistribution Kent

When this first came out, it was the lead for the portal, and what G&F thought was needed to promote the portal. But along with the portal was the premium membership which had a fee. The tag redistribution to premium members was the carrot. The portal without the premium membership was finally seen to be best after some continuous meetings. Also the tag giveback was shelved because of these very issues. At first the tag giveback was not restricted and a BP was awarded. I used the same scenario of my granddaughter, but I could get her a 23 late rifle bull hunt every year, and give back the same tag every year. I've killed lots of elk, I don't have to kill another if my granddaughter can kill 300 bulls every year. Someone said, well G&F will notice and be watching you... my response was... So, they can watch me all they want, it's the new system and not illegal. Even with the one and done, this new 'system' will wreck havoc on the draw, BPs and those that can't figure out how to transition. Good luck. You young guys can step up and fight the fight now... or not. Kent

One day Grasshopper, If you are good, I might tell you a way to draw 10 elk tags in 12 years without trying a scam. Good luck with point guard. And friend, I know the draw as well as anyone... maybe I can show you how to draw 3 dec deer tags in 4 years... which I did up to 2 years ago before I changed my focus. Kent

Bob, how many times do we have to fight these same battles. I swear folks have to have it rubbed in their face to get it and some never do. Kent

That is where I figure you were going. Doesn't work that way. See the picture I posted above from the regs. Well if you want to be a stickler, which G&F isn't, Only a few years aren't descending. 2nd tuesday... 9th this year, 10th last year, 11th the year before, ect till it resets. Reality, you are in the draw if you license is good at application. Kent

I'm not going anywhere. I'm stating realities and fact. I can buy a license on feb 1st and apply for elk and the next year apply for elk on Jan 31 on the same license. I only have to buy a license again if drawn. Otherwise do it again the 3rd and 4th. Kent

Seriously... did you not know you can apply two years application on one license? Kent

My dad has a pioneer license, my wife hunts elk but not deer, no license fee, others only buy a license every 2 years, anyone that hasn't figured that out is ignorant... and I only have to pay 5 bucks the year the points are used. Kent

My dad at 85 still thinks I put in elk for him, but he can't seriously hunt anymore, he has a few points still and a pioneers license. I can buy BPs for him. Kent

13 bucks per BP and a license every few years. Kent

I gots lots of family that don't hunt but will be accumulating points for me. Kent

We'll call it the Nevada way... Kent

I might as well use my 4 deer points to help a buddy with 1 or 2 pull a 3 BP hunt, like mule deer in 23 or 22... the dec coues tag I want takes 5 and I'll get that hunt the next year. The person that would have drawn my tag won't even know they could have drawn and I'm sure will be just as happy with their 3rd, 4th or 5th basically leftovers choice. Kent

The original proposal was linked with the Portal and a paid premium membership. Premium members had fist choice of returned tags. Also there was no limit on how many times you could turn tags in. This new system will be advantageous for those that can figure it out. I'll hunt 3 dec coues tags in the next 5 years... if I want. Kent

I'm just telling you what's going to happen. soon my wife will draw a cow tag every year . You'll have to out bid USO, they have clients wanting to hunt unit 10 late rifle in their camp years sooner. You will draw 4B with 5 BPs. The howling's going to start when late bull hunts in 23, 10, 9 come up on the giveback list. Kent

Well, it's a done deal. Actually I can get her 2 tags in 2 years if I'm willing to take a 10 BP tag the second. Proxy applicants are the real danger for the future. And the amount of tags given back. Kent

My granddaughter is 4, in 6 years I'll have 18 and she'll have 1 HE = 19, average 10. The next year I'll have 19. Conspiracy... LOL, G&F shelved this a few years ago because some of us went to meetings and explained the possible implications. USO and other tag/app services are running the numbers. Of course giving back a quality tag that someone else wanted is no big deal, or how it is reissued. Kent