krp

I get a feeling the anti's are in a down swing... no lawsuit after the last wolf delisting from defenders of wildlife and now this... seems they may be hurting for funds in this economy. Add to that liabilty of lawsuit/truth in fund raising issues... reality may prove out finally. Kent

http://forums.couesw...es

There was a thread awhile back of a stolen camera, with a picture of the mangled lock box still on the tree... had yellow paint on the box from the pry tool used to open it... I said then it wasn't hunters... and again, most cameras aren't taken by hunters, though they are the first accused... find the yellow paint in the pictures... Kent

Humph... you guys were making so much dust on the way out sunday, Troy and I stopped and made a pork sandwich and tater salad... It also gave us an opportunity to disparage you , George, and Curtis freely... as you couldn't defend yourself... Oh, not only are you a scorpion whisperer... and you can halt runaway large excavating equipment with just the word 'stop'... my tire also heard you and quit leaking, it still has 45 lbs of air since I pumped it up... Awesomeness pales in comparison to you... Till next time brother... Kent

Donnie is doing a great job... my one post about pubic and private was to the couple folks that said they didn't owe us an answer, well maybe I don't remember well but those of us at the ADA meeting wanting an answer were suppose to get one at a later date, since we couldn't get one that night... I was challenged to show up to speak and get answers... ironic. Anyway, I'm still working on stuff, just no use talking much till it's complete. Kent

NRA, around 100,000 strong in AZ, is a powerful force even in state politics though they are mostly National. Here's an example of state legislation Gov Brewer signed for hunters less than two weeks ago. I didn't see any local orgs engaged in this successful legislation for hunters... http://www.nraila.org/hunting/issues-and-alerts/2012/4/arizona-governor-signs-hunter-protection-bill-into-law.aspx April 11, 2012... Last night, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed House Bill 2457 into law. This legislation will allow hunters to carry a handgun for self-defense while in the field. This important hunter protection bill passed the state Senate by a 21 to 7 vote on April 4 and passed in the House by a 54 to 4 vote on March 5. The RMEF has 5000 members in this state and there are other national orgs that we can rely on that have members here also. We need to rely on them because most of the threats from antis are on the Federal level... GC watershed monument as an example... We have many more people involved than is being stated... and with effectual organizations. Every person involved in hunting also supports the AZ G&F with licenses and fees, AZ G&F is the biggest entity in the state supplying biology and habitat solutions for wildlife... obviously... but it gets lost sometimes. Along with that every hunter pays the 11% Pittman Robertson taxes on equipment that comes back to AZ, and in 2010 it was 12,000,000... so the average hunter is funding in a big way already... http://www.fws.gov/southwest/federal_assistance/wr.html http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/federal-aid-cycle.shtml Who does the best job in youth retention... family. For every youth hunter there is an average of 2 adults along and sometimes more... consider that, on the amount of youth tags given. I love youth camps and they are sorely needed, but they pale in comparison in the overall picture numbers wise. Our elk camp was typical this last year. There was a youth with a 3C jr tag one weekend and a youth with a general 3C cow tag the next and we also had a youth with a reservation archery tag at the same time... and adults with rez tags. So it's a big camp for a couple weeks... I help on all their hunts, the perfect example was the young lady that had her GreatGF, GF, Father in camp making 4 generations. GF, father and I take her out. What she gets out of this is how important she is to her family, how supportive they are not only in this but all things in her life... You can't replace that with a 8.00 hotdog and a fishtank at an expo. Local orgs are effective on the ground, no doubt, that's where their strength is, not politics... my take is there is X amount of extra donations available, just how life is... there are more and more orgs lining up for that pot and that's what we are seeing. We need to be smart in who gets our donation, who proves they won't waste it, who proves they are conservation orientated. Those that stepout into the 'public' political arena are making a big mistake and they can't hide behind their conservation skirts when public opinion confronts them. For politics we need an org that can prove they are effectual, not flail around in their agendas and representation. When we see a solid org, I will support... we are at ground zero. Kent

AZSFW is a PAC, that means POLITICAL action committee, emphasis on political... they are not a conservation org. They are a 'private' political entity, and I only care what they do in the 'public' political forum... and as a 'public' myself I have every right to question or opine on their actions. They feed off the conservation orgs by charging dues... therefore we have a right to question and have answers to the political support of the conservation orgs when we disagree with the 'public' political actions of AZSFW. I have continued to emphasis separation of politics and conservation, it was my subject at the ADA meeting with how the tag funding would be legal to use in a PAC political agenda with 2072. I continue to say the commission review board is a 'public' political entity, not conservation... and therefore under political scrutiny... yet I'm told I'm wrong because members have worked in conservation... lol... this is politics, with politic rules, where big boy pants are worn... Conservation isn't the answer, excuse or atonement... you support screwing me politically, I will question the political agenda. Kent

Good post non-typical... Anyway, this is a federal issue and my suggestion would for the Governor to play politics and approach this as she did the border... demand that the President make this a monument, threaten to support state legislation... Obama will have Holder sue the state to leave it's designation NF and they beat us again. Kent

Yep, luckily the influence of the 60s and early 70s are finally passing as is the influence of 60 to 70 year olds. It's too bad our history of the 'greatest generation' WWII era was followed by our worst since the founding fathers fought for our freedom and crafted our constitution. Hippies went from condemning 'the man' to running our congress, politics, media, societal culture... Old hippies aren't groovy... and they still need a bar of soap to clean up the stink. Kent

you forgot... in your pajamas, sipping a latte, from the latest Greenpeace 'save a whale' eco-cup collection... just say'n... Kent

Azsfw is a PAC and lobbyist, they brought the legislation to the legislature and got it passed. It was their idea, the appointment board members didn't walk in off the street, each has ties to founders of azsfw. Kent

The argument about solely with the governor is my same argument about solely with a few special interests... Kent

So, because YVRGC agreed 90% with azsfw and the lobbyist, Townsend was put on the board by azsfw recommendation? That'd make it 5 of 5 hand picked. Or did he go independent to the Governor to be seated? Are all appointment boards so narrowly restricted to seating special interest requirements? Or are they an open seating? I'll discuss this with anyone, I'm right here. Kent

This is real politics, not some special interest board meeting of 400 members... Let me see if I can break this down by guessing and tell me how close I am... Gilstrap, excommissioner, azsfw linked in everything Chilton, excommissioner the same time as Gilstrap and asked to serve because of the connection and ranching Johnson, long time connections with the the same lobby group at least in association if not membership of azsfw, critter groups ect. Townsend, YVRGC were talked into supporting the legislation then reconsidered too late and were able put one of their own on the board. Stinson, a azsfwc director with obvious connections to the same group as Johnson. So 4 of the 5 were hand picked, Townsend and probably Clilton will listen to this new uproar from us and consider it, if we replace Stinson or Johnson with Taylor then we have a majority, maybe. Now this is a lot of trouble for a solution, to a problem, that was created with a built in self serving interests. Of the five sitting, how many folks do they represent by legislation, 2000 at most... they don't represent me and 300,000 other sportsmen who depend on the commission... let alone any general public who enjoy wildlife. It needs to be gone, not controlled. Kent

Well, I looked at the link again... http://www.azgfd.gov/govCommBoard/index2.html and though it says 2010 it goes to the 2011 meetings, I do remember the minutes from 2010 where they started with 4 sitting. Don't really have the energy to redo all my research I did two months ago. something else I found awhile ago. http://www.azgovernor.gov/bc/documents/GovAppointments.pdf Susan Elizabeth Chilton Brewer Term Expires 7/29/2012 Phillip Dale Townsend Brewer 7/29/2013 Donald R. Johnson Brewer 7/29/2014 William Hays Gilstrap Brewer 7/29/2015 Leonard Gary Stinson Brewer 7/29/2016 I don't take anything personal and always appreciate the conversation. I understand what is happening in this country as much or more than most... doing something unethical because the opposition works that way is playing right into their strategy... they like it, it legitimizes their philosophy. Kent

I went through the minutes a few months ago, I believe it was Stinson that wasn't on at the beginning but there in the minutes as present in the fall of 2010 and on. So it's been 5. Kent

The Commission Appointment Board is a political tool of special interests intended to reduce and/or replace the democratic process of public choice. It's not a conservation tool. Again the attempt to intermix conservation ethics with politics either organizationally or individually is non applicable. This is the political arena not a conservation project and those involved better have asbestos for skin. I will never support a reduction of our democratic foundation no matter the intentions or who is in control. Right now the sitting members need to A. hunker down and take heavy incoming flack B. step down gracefully now with a thank you C. make a public statement that they will watchdog our interests while working with the Governor and legislature in removing this board permanently... The, they're great people away from the political arena means nothing in this instance if they adopt A. Acting like a socialist within a selfserving selfproclaimed good intention is... exactly like every other socialist. Kent

It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and an instant to lose it... an unfortunate reality. If he was never confirmed he has a chance to step out gracefully and needs to take it. The continued mention of Jennifer Martin confirms the continued bitterness that started in 06 when she replaced Gilstrap on the commission and started all the hostilities that we are still dealing with today. She is long gone and the other players in this wound in our hunting community need to be gone also... along with their commission appointment board. Kent

We are taking significant federal hits, why because we lost the election to Obama, we allowed lobbyists to manipulate legislation removing our voting voice and constituency. We've lost the border and Rob Krentz, we enact 1070 and the feds fight 'us'. The feds, ATF, run guns to the cartels in a 2A restriction attempt and we lose Agent Terry. EPA throttles our economy and employment. Religious freedoms are for only NON'Christians. TSA gropes grandma and baby Tim at the airport. We have to win this election and hope Obama is distracted, we gave our voice away. azsfw is trying to Obama us, I'm keeping my voice this time. Kent

The dollar amount total of these 350 tags would be similar to the amount of the 30 auction and raffle tags now, but it will reduce the original tags value by 1/3rd at least. So the HPC will lose 1/3 and azsfw would negotiated with the G&F up to 30% of the new tags, so at best the HPC may collect as much for habitat. Of course if you stay with the 30 tags and add a 5.00 habitat stamp to all hunting and fishing licenses except youth. The habitat stamp will create more money than the 350 tags, and it will more than double the HPC fund for conservation. But that's too sensible and someone doesn't get a party and payday. Kent

Zim, I know you from MM and can say you are one of the good guys. Kent

Again, the issues of 2006 to 2009 we are still dealing with and I'm glad G&F are reversing some of them. It's not a coincidence that the Peak of the Nappy commission and the advent of a new path of supposed leadership of the orgs 'azsfw' had hostile clashes. Eventually having orgs like ADA asking unaffiliated folks to address the commission because they were effectively blackballed... for hostile personal statements of commission members it seems. I'm not blaming this commission or politics for that fiasco and they seem to be silently cleaning it up and we need to help on our end of 'Sportsmen groups and individuals'. Kent

Let me add this, I've noticed a pattern with azsfw... create a wedge between the dept/commission and hunters... bad commission/good commission... they want us to believe any commission is bad so they can justify taking over management of tags. They are now attempting to drive a wedge between us and our legislators and Governor... The same ones we applaud for sticking their finger in Obama's face and stand up for us on a federal level. That's not going to work either, I'm not going to fall for that and start cussing my Governor... we need to keep up the steady march forward and not get sidetracked. Kent

Couple of things... this commission isn't the Nappy commission of 08'. The hostilities of that commission can be directly related to the rise of azsfw and their tactics of relationship with that commission, especially the appointment of Martin. Statistics can be manipulated to support any view or stance. The depts numbers above are just to refute the premise of a specific stance of azsfw's. Here's my statistic with the same numbers of azsfw... in the last 20 years the chart indicates a dramatic decrease of wildlife and permits while there has been a continue increase in nonprofit wildlife organizations, members and fundraising. If you think mine is silly, think about azsfw's... Kent

George... who they should be comparing themselves to are Jesse Jackson and Acorn. Kent