krp

Plausible solutions, though I can't see the sfw moniker survive in any form... they tried to USO and Obama'ize us, with a tag takeover and forced multimillion public stimulus... that's unforgivable after the trust shown. I wish the orgs luck, there is no easy fix and some hits will be taken in the near future. Kent

And this is it... This is the rift... The orgs are 'Private' repeat 'Private' special interest groups... that means in agenda and funding. The orgs cannot accept that the general public does not flock to their mission statement with an open wallet, it's plain to them that the folks are uncaring, lazy, blind or stupid. They can't accept the possibility many in the public have rejected the course and leadership they promote by 'not' funding them. If the pubic won't willingly support them to the point they may stall, their vision not progress... they must be forced for their own good to support. The orgs are too important to fail, they will legislate a public resource bailout repeat 'Public'... same as a stimulus... The orgs need to accept that the public rejected AZSFW, same as if it would have been AZUSO, as our voice politically, as they are both a threat to our tags... Kent

I appreciate your effort and that of YVGRC and AES... the reality is this is an private organization/special interest problem. That means the orgs have to take care of it, that means the leaders of the orgs have to disagree with SFW as a whole, that means the membership of the orgs have to disagree with SFW and force acceptance of their view or remove the leadership of their 'private' org... to then have a united front to oust SFW from the Az political and conservation voice. These threads are being monitored, BPL is looking 20 times a day... no comments are coming from the leaderships except the two that have unaffiliated, those two will be left out to dry... No one will answer the simplest questions and their memberships aren't pressing them. We are waiting to see if the orgs will clean their house, if not, I and others will come after all of you hard, we are the majority, we will not be screwed again. If you think we hate USO for what they did, that will look like sunday school... Clean your house!!!!!!!!! OUT! Kent

Go tell that long tongue liar Go and tell that midnight rider Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter Tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down Tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down You can run on for a long time Run on for a long time Run on for a long time Sooner or later God'll cut you down Sooner or later God'll cut you down Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand Workin' in the dark against your fellow man But as sure as God made black and white What's done in the dark will be brought to the light Sooner or later God'll cut you down Johnny Cash

I knew this bill wasn't going anywhere, when I first saw it I thought, 'alright'... but looking at it, it can't and shouldn't. HB2538 isn't wrong, just introduced by the wrong party representatives. We as a State, did a great job from 2008 to 2010, rallying behind a Governor that stood for and is willing to work hard for what Az stands for. 'She' reversed the G&F commission after the Nappy disaster, she strengthened our pro gun stance, she balanced our budget in trying economic times. After the murder of Mr Krentz by a smuggler, she brought Az to the forefront of a fight that we are still in, it's a fight for our country's and personal sovereignty from enemies both foreign and domestic... She still has her finger in the Federal .gov's eye and won't back down. We are lucky. The governor can't enact legislation but must have a supporting legislature to vote and then bring the bills to sign. To change the face of government, we only need to change the faces... And we did, 2010, besides a fairly strong national upheaval in congress, we stacked the state legislature in favor of the governor with republicans, a huge majority. With our 'vote' we dictated that the opposition's voice will be weak and truthfully... ignored. HB2538 rightfully falls into the ignore category through our previous vote. Our vote, that's the difference, and we live with it. 2010, while many of us were concentrating on the national congressional elections, 1070 and the fight with the federal Obama machine... SFW also stacked their political power, basically under the radar. SB1200 and the super PAC... and we saw what the culmination of that power was intended for... Arizona to be converted to the 'Utah experience'... and it ain't over by a long shot. Kent

I've looked at these pictures a few times now, very impressive! Kent

Thank you for the insight, it fills in a few more numbers on the painting, it'd be safe to say since this never went public, these 5 were in a very select few that were offered the opportunity to apply and serve by the framers. Without making a moral judgement on any individual or their intentions, they bought into the premise to protect their own organization, even if not the SFW connection. That's the best that can be said. Legislating the public voice and choice into the control of select special interest groups, it's fundamentally aberrant as an American. More like what we are fighting from Obama and his special interests. This issue needs reversed, not fighting to see who controls the 5 spots, just get rid of it. Kent

Chilton was a AZG&F commissioner during the same period that Gilstrap was... hope that isn't a gross misunderstanding of a connection. The other three have to have a qualifying organization, one represents ranchers. The other two ? We are obviously being ignored and the answers not forthcoming. Kent

It's obvious the leadership of ADA is still in communication, coordination, support of SFW, AZSFW, AZSFWC... or whatever manifestations they represent concurrently. It's now up to the membership to decide if this is the course they want their support and funds to represent. Kent

So the new commissioner, forwarded to the Governor for appointment by AZSFW/AZSFWC... is now the liaison between them and the AZG&F commission? Of course, one more powerpoint of SFW is the state license plate that they sponsor, name sake and control funds from. SFW obviously doesn't feel the need to explain their position or apologize publically to the general hunting community or the organizations, who all supported them these last few years. Though they have no problem going to the G&F commission to protect their political and funding interests with the state. They obviously do 'not' consider themselves dieing or on the outs... YVRGC and AES have pulled their support of SFW. ADA is still in support. The other orgs have not commented. Looking at the member list of orgs and circle members, that is over 60,000 that have been paid in dues alone. Add all the other dues plus the PAC donations, license plate state monies... add someone that will spend 150,000 on a sheep tag willing to throw 50,000 in a super PAC fund to help legislate tags available, times that by how many donors SFW has supporting them from across the country. Look at the time table of events to this point and this being an election year where all the PAC money will be brought into play. The Nappy years culminated to a horrific situation that seemed unreversible. yet when Brewer stepped in, it was alleviated very quickly. This situation is much worse and there is no one step fix... we the public and even the Governor have been fenced out. Who is going to go up against all the money and political power points... not John and ADA... Kent

Nothing to see here... move along citizen... continue moving in an orderly fashion to your designated holding area... move along... nothing to see here... Kent

AZSFWC Board of Directors: President/Chairman - Jim Unmacht Secretary/Treasurer - Alan Hamberlin Director - Eddy Corona Director - Joe Del Re Director - Floyd Green Director - Charlie Kelly Director - John Koleszar Director - Jerry Nelson Director - Mark Nuessle Director - Art Pearce Director - Brian Pinney Director - Shane Stewart Director - Gary Stinson Director - Robert Thomas Lobby for Defenders of wildlife, works with Sierra Club and.... What a tangled web we weave. Tell me again why I'm supposed to support this BS... Kent

Thank you for the update, I didn't get home in time to view the meeting or can find anything about what happened. Looks as AZSFW is willing to come out of hiding to lobby for funds. They don't seemed to worried or distressed over public opinion. Kent

Oh, OK.... I see it now, my representative is #5, Stinson... 5. One member of the general public or one member of a nongame organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501©(3) or 501©(4) of the internal revenue code. The general public (including hunting) and the anti's all lumped together... fence in all those meaners and haters... Glad I know what category I've been relegated to... Kent

17-202. Arizona game and fish commission appointment recommendation board A. The Arizona game and fish commission appointment recommendation board is established consisting of members appointed by the governor pursuant to this section and section 38-211. The board shall consist of one person who has been a resident of this state for at least five years from each of the following qualifying groups: 1. One member designated by the board of directors of an organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501©(3) or 501©(4) of the internal revenue code, whose membership consists of a significant cross-section of wildlife conservation and sportsmen organizations from throughout the state, that does not have an affiliation or charter with a national wildlife conservation or sportsman's organization and that has been in existence for at least five years. 2. One member designated by the board of directors of an organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501©(3) or 501©(4) of the internal revenue code whose articles of incorporation or bylaws stipulate that the mission or purpose of the organization is to increase, sustain or otherwise conserve wild turkey, deer, elk, pronghorn (antelope), bighorn sheep, ducks, quail or fish and that has been in existence for at least five years. 3. One member designated by the board of directors of an organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501©(3) or 501©(4) of the internal revenue code whose articles of incorporation or bylaws define it as a sportsman's organization whose membership is primarily confined to a specific geographic area or region of the state or an organization described in paragraph 2 of this subsection or is a chapter or affiliate of a national sportsman's conservation or shooting organization and that has been in existence for at least five years. 4. One member designated by the board of directors of an organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501©(3) or 501©(4) of the internal revenue code that is statewide, whose membership is comprised of cattlemen or ranchers and that has been in existence for at least five years. 5. One member of the general public or one member of a nongame organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501©(3) or 501©(4) of the internal revenue code. ------------------------------ So if.... 1. Gilstrap-AZSFW 5. Stinson-defenders of wildlife Who represents 2/3/4 and what are their qualifying organizations? Phillip Townsend, Susan Chilton, Donald Johnson. Which one of these represents me, an unaffiliated citizen?... so I may contact them and have my voice represented. Kent

In his testimony before the committee, Mr. Stinson expressed his pride in working with and lobbying for Defenders of Wildlife, working with the Sierra Club and Sportsmen For Wildlife (yes that SFW). He stated his position in assuring "diversity" in the make up of the commission so all interests can be represented. He is the only candidate that applied for the position. ----------------------------------------------- Mr Stinson is on the list I saw of sitting members, along with two ex G&F commissioners that served together, one being a board member of AZSFW. Anyone getting an itch yet? SFW controls a super PAC... this is an election year... When was the last sub'organization's dues paid to AZSFW? How much does SFW have and how much do you have left? Who controls the lobby? Who has the ear of legislators? Why has SFW isolated themselves, even before this legislation was leaked? Why haven't they come out and tried to put out fires and at least justify this move to save face and support? Is it because they are embarrassed, afraid... or is it that they put themselves in such a powerful position and timetable, they don't care what the orgs, G&F, average hunter think. Could we have been put on ignore as they forge ahead? Be afeared... Kent

Forget the wolf crap... forget the anti fearmongering... 2008, Nappy's commission and these same orgs were at the pinnacle of their animosity, they hated each other and we couldn't even go to a commission meeting as individual hunters without that animosity being directed at us. Yet we stood by the orgs and did everything they asked while they wailed and gnashed their teeth in frustration. I was frustrated that we had no vote for who the commissioners were. Obama did the one good thing for Az... took Nappy away and Brewer stepped in... what a breath of fresh air... 'She' saved us, not anyone else. The same orgs wanted control of the commission, they enacted SB1200, trust them... 2012, these same orgs we have supported turned on us when they have the power and are making a tag grab... now the commission are the good guys and we need to support them. I am getting sick of being caught in the middle with no voice either way. Kent

John... The wolf recovery program is mandated by the ESA of 1973, a federally mandated program not state voluntary. after many years and changes, Canadian wolves were released in Yellowstone and Idaho in 1995 and Then mexican wolves in AZ/NM 1998. The AZG&F have no choice on the matter and neither does the commission, they deal with the mandate best they can under federal guidelines. From G&F... The Arizona Game and Fish Department has been actively involved in reintroducing Mexican wolves to portions of their historical range for many years. In the 1980s, the reintroduction effort focused mainly on public processes necessary to reach a decision for or against reintroduction. Management activities during the 1990s included public opinion surveys, public meetings, site feasibility studies and surveys along both sides of the Mexican border for naturally occurring wolves. In addition, there was intensive coordination with cooperating agencies, including the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish and the USDA Forest Service. As a result of these activities and a Federal mandate from the Endangered Species Act of 1973, a Federal decision was made to release captive Mexican wolves in east-central Arizona. In March 1998, 11 captive-reared Mexican wolves were released into the Blue Range Wolf Recovery Area (BRWRA) in eastern Arizona. Additional releases have occurred since the initial release. With the birth of the first wild-born litter from a wild-born parent in 2002, the Mexican Wolf Reintroduction Project entered into a new phase, whereby natural reproduction began to replace reintroductions from captive populations. ------------------------------------- read the bold Between the Feds and our own local special interest groups, our vote is being silenced... Kent

John, endangered species are Federal under the USF&W... Kent

I understand and appreciate the listen... 500 donations and 10 bucks are minimum... to create the vessel... what of the member organization dues, which is a 'substantial' number. What about donations from individuals investing in their interest of tags. Before the super pac, they could donate 5000.00 an individual, now it's confusing but seems they can donate unlimited. I can't find where Utah SFW can't donate heavily with their orgs in Az. Don't overlook that they may have a huge warchest and attempted a quickstike to the endzone before a long draw out ground game... Who controls this two year super pac? Thanks again, someone look into all possibilities... Kent ------------------------ So-called super PACs, which were created following a pair of federal court decisions in 2010, are permitted to receive unlimited campaign contributions from corporations, labor unions, and wealthy individual donors. Traditional federal political action committees and candidate campaign committees may only receive limited contributions from individuals, political parties, and other political action committees. Under federal law, candidates and super PACs are not permitted to coordinate campaign activity.

Thank you archerycrazy, I appreciate you and the YVRGC for taking the correct approach, also AES. I've tried to be careful with Weiers, not be in the linch him camp, but also be firm that we need assurances in the near future. Thanks again. While you are at it... look at the Super PAC issue, timing of requalification and 2072... at least consider if there is a threat still viable from outside interests. http://www.arizonasportsmenforwildlife.org/?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=66 Kent

Well, by your own list above, if you support SB1200, then you support a sitting Sierra Club member or some such on that board... also there isn't any reason to believe that with a little imagination, anti's can't word their 501 incorporation statements to qualify for any of the first three positions legally... Kent

I wanted it repealed as soon as I found out about it a week or so ago when BPJ referenced it and I studied it... It doesn't matter to me who brought the repeal bill up, it's correct and should be implemented... As much as I hate Obama, if he said he would completely disband the ATF after the gunwalking debacle... I'm not going to say NO! don't do it. This legislation should have never been enacted in the first place... needs to go. Kent

Yep... all special interest organizations that don't come close to representing the majority of hunters as far as paying membership goes, and three of the five have organizational and funding ties... The few knowing best for the many... Elitism, socialism, cronyism, possible corruption... No thanks... Kent

So another case of SFW knows best over the objections 'all' others... sounds familiar... SB1200 is a disaster... isolating the power brokers from/and insulating the general public having any choice of who their representatives/policy makers are in a government agency. That's worked so well with the DOJ, EPA, ATF, DEA, DHS, FS.... TSA with their hands in our panties... SFW is using the Acorn and NAACP playbook... Get you GD hands out of my panties!!!!! Kent