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Mason, I agree, you made your peace. It's cool. Once you did that I personaly took the dingle collar off you and think others should also. Some of the guys you like, do the things you say you don't like on some subjects and others you don't like, possibly myself included, support all the other things you did like. You never understand a guy until he posts quite a few times where he really is coming from. I'm getting a better feel for you. I realize you can cool off so am not offended by the DIRT BAG ARCHERY HUNTER thing now, that was harsh for someone we didn't know to well. I'm not going to agree with everyone, though I like everyone. I will state my point of view, enjoy sarcasm, giving and taking, as long as it's not malichous, never liked physical threats though. Some subjects are more serious than others and just need to be talked out, points of view usually doesn't change but an understanding of each other does and cools heads. Imagine if we all said, Heck ya, go kill the sob and you did or he you, what a hunting PR disaster for the public to see. Probably be the end of cams on public ground. Just talking a situation out from all sides. Dingle has a ton of catching up to do. Kent

Get the Minox and I'm one of the Brunton owners, I just can't get the Minox to close down enough for my eyes. Minox are great binos, German made, I love my Minox HGs in 10X. They will last you a lifetime. Get the Bruntons if your eyes need them, which you don't. Or if you want a very light weight 50mm bino for backpacking, that's another reason I use them over my heavy porros. I'm not sold on the durability of the Bruntons, even though I've road them hard for a couple years, don't seem as solid of a body as my Minox, we'll see. Get the Bruntons if you only have 300.00 bucks. If you ever upgrade to Swaros, they make great loaners or for your kids. Kent

Cool, I guess I get to take and use your cam when I find it as long as I bring it back, sometime. Oh wait, that happens all the time and no one is endorsing that. Try and keep it apples to apples, if you said you put your coat over it because it bugged you. That would have been humorous. Cam users need the goodwill of all hunters or they won't ever have one left. Not understanding that some hunters don't want to be filmed the entire time they are hunting a spot like a tank, is mindboogling. No one vandalized, used or abused the cam just made it so it wouldn't disturb them. You truly cannot see a future problem with the rise of cam use on public land. It could lead to restrictions on when you can put a camera out, time limits and not during any hunting seasons. Do you want it to be like the Flying scouting regulations, I don't, so don't abuse the goodwill of other hunters, compromise a little. Working on keeping my MM skills up, haven't been there in awhile, gotta get in top shape incase I need it. Kent

Of course not one thing was on point in that. If you park your trailer next to a tank, I will call G&F and they will site you, possibly tow it. No photo radar harrassing a hunter. I would say it is apparent who at least understands there was no molesting, just insuring their right to privacy, in the majority not half. You and Mason a buddies? Kent

We don't have to all agree, just think. Kent

If these subjects aren't discussed, then it will be settled in the field with people that have weapons. If these sites aren't for this, then all they are is brag boards and worthless. This is no different than the treestand, atv type discussions and I can see trouble coming. Better to think about it on either side before you confront or are confronted in the field, may have a much cooler head. Kent

Id like to give them an old fashioned butt whoopin. Funny, seems a righteous whoopin can go either way when both parties believe they are the ones in the right. Private property rights could only mean not harming the property. Damages from nonexistant future images may be hard to prove. Invasion of privacy would probably win out. Anyway, I like the idea of hanging your coat where ever you want, using the private property approach. It never helps a situation to threaten, best to negotiate. Hang something infront of the camera if it bothers you while hunting, remove it when you leave. Get the word out for acceptable practice and people won't have to figure the best method out in the field. Kent

Nobody harmed anyone's equipment in this case, that's a different subject. I'm not moving from the best spot to sit just because I don't want to have my picture taken 500 times in the next few days. If in my mind that camera is distubing my hunt it's going off, flash or no flash. This ain't the paparazzi, I have rights also. If scouting in any form disturbs another's licensed hunt, that's not right. You took a chance someone wasn't hunting the spot and hoping for some pics, they were hunting it so you should have not been angry and pulled it. There are no more hidden spots up there when you can sit in the resturants and listen to all the bragging of flying scouting and the elk they see in these, used to be secret areas, to whoever will listen. Suprised you were the only one with a cam there. Anyway, good luck on your upcoming hunt. Kent

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the hunter was the one that had every right to hunt in peace and not have his personal space violated. I think he was polite in just turning it down or off. Scouting is one thing, if there is an actual hunt going on then I would expect to have it turned off by someone wanting to hunt. Kent

Just thinking about it, not saying anything is right or not. If you're hunting a tank or area that has someone's cam, everytime you go in and setup predawn, you get flashed. Everytime you move, if you're setup in the cam's sight, you get flashed. If you hunt there all day, multiple days you will be filmed all day long, everytime you fidget. If you make a hit before dark and come back at 10:00 with flashlights to pickup a blood trail the cam will continue to flash you. Where does the cam owners rights end and the hunter's rights of not being harrassed or filmed without his permission end. I could see getting irritated enough to turn a cam down or off with the intention of resetting it and forgetting. This brings up a whole other can of worms. Kent

Answered your post on TAH, Mine aren't for sale but you can borrow to try out. I know you're the kid that went to the youth camp, killed a nice deer, won a few prizes and made a good impression with some standup guys. If I had swaros you couldn't borrow them but you can my bruntons. Kent

here's pics of the Brunton, antelope buck at about 2 miles, there are corrals in the extreem righthand side at over 4 miles with two herds and I had no problems seeing them since early morning while glassing. And I still like the tripod and head I bought from Amanda, plug. Kent

Get the Minox from Cameraland if you have 550.00 and don't have a problem with the binos not closing narrow enough for your eyes. Unfortunately I do and so I've written here different times the options I have and the tests I've done. The bruntons are the best of the 50mm objectives class (Zeiss 15X45, Viper 15X50) not counting the Leica, (I just can't afford them). 300.00 gets you in the serious glassing game. Visually they compare with the Docter big porros and do decent in low light, better than I thought. Weigh a pound less than the big obj, so go on my BP hunts, I really just use them for everything now. There's no problem with the clarity of the bruntons, just a little whitewash or the colors aren't as startling as my buddies swaros. These guys are or have been guides and don't say a thing about my glass, just ask me to come, I still find the hidden animals better than them, just experience/technique trumps glass. I looked through the Kaibabs at Sportsman and they are so close to closing for my eyes, they will work. With breaking my leg helping on an elk hunt it'll be a long time before I seriously look to pick those up. The Bruntons are suprisingly good glass, 300.00, and if that's what you have, or want light weight, get them and get in the game. The Minox seem good, looking with one eye, but I go more off my Minox 10X HGs and knowing they're really good, so recommend them also. Next up the price list would be Kaibab, then the big 2, Swaro/Leica. We're talking roofs not porros. Minox 15X58 My humble opinion. Kent

That would be good to know, Ron can fill up by Saturday on a state wide hunt. Ron and Marianne are the only in home cutters I know and the only kind I trust. Would be good to know another. Kent

Yep, Ron and Marianne, they've been doing it 20 yrs that I know of, super clean setup, your animal is all you'll get back. Take the number and call when you get something. Only place I'll go if I don't butcher myself or recomend, I don't butcher for friends anymore. They did 3 elk for our group this year and I have a freezer of their cuts, good as always. Kent

Doug, I loaded some 120 nbt up for my 7mm mag when I had it, 3400 fps. My buddy used it to shoot his coues at 200 yds and it had a small entrance and perfect nickle exit hitting rib. One case doesn't prove anything but it worked great that time. I loaded those because I heard and seen the same thing you did, people even shoot elk with them. I wouldn't use the 140s though. None of the three 7mm08s I got for my Dad and 2 nephews has killed anything but I did work up loads for each gun and the 120 nbt shoots great in them, as does the 140/139 combo. I picked up a nice tikka 7mm08 from a member here for myself just recent and will work on loads, probably shoot the same loads that the others do. That would make loading easy. Kent

Doug, the scentlock cloths have to be the biggest scam ever, though I've never bought any. I bought a new quad in 97, had alot of fun tooling around with the wife and kids for a year until it was monotunous. Load it for hunting, unload, load it to go home, unload. That was it for the way I hunt. Sat in the garage for a few years . Sold it. I had to have a long range scope, so I got a Leupold 6X18 VXII with LR rectical, almost 500.00. Put it on my 7mm and my buddy borrowed it, I had never even hunted it. Kills his buck at 200 yds on 6X and then drops the gun down a steep slope and puts scratches all over it. I realise I just wasted my money on something that was unneeded and too expensive. I've shot moving yotes at 320 yds with my 3X9 set at 3 and coues at 420 yds set at 9, no problem. It sits in my closet now, paper weight. Kent

Just one bullet, deer/elk, then the 140 gr TSX. I also like that a horndy 139 sp will hit same poi as the TSX in three rifles in the family. Just deer would be the 120 gr ballistic tip, actually a sturdy little bullet, or the 120 TSX for more sturdiness. H4350 or H414, just work up to 2800 fps with the 140 and it'll be all good. Kent

When I start in a new area, first I check Google earth for terrain and see if it shows any springs or tanks, remember there's alot of springs not shown. I'll narrow down a few different areas in the main area and spend different trips on reconnaissance, in the spring is fine. Check out the shown water and access and basic huntability. You will get a feel how permanent the water might be, I trust nothing completely but springs are more reliable than tanks. I will check water on a trip right before the hunt or take enough water in that I can turn around and get back out if needed, That's something you should do anyway. Many springs even in wilderness areas had been improved by man at one time or another, so are fairly permanent. During exploring you could very well find a spring unnamed and have to just watch it during different times of year to get a feel. One of the reason I give a good area a few years of work. I don't remember one time that I found an area on a map or google earth and didn't find a better more secret area close, off the radar. All this means is you get to explore during different times and when you do hunt and take a good animal it was a complete experience. Sorry for the quick responce, I have to go. Kent

24B has a decent Wilderness. It's all about water, personal water sources, permanent, not temperary. It's about the prehunt prep, prehunt scouting of access, water, country, campsites and then animals. Once you're in an area, those are the animals you can hunt. It's not about killing the biggest animal in the unit, he could be found next to pavement more likely. It's about research, backcountry hunting, self reliance, hunting the animals in the area you choose. What I like about it is. Start scouting spring/summer in new country, putting a pack on for a few trips, also can evaluate equipment and basic skills, quick overnight afternoon to morning trips to beat the heat. Aug, start scouting for animals, bowhunt deer, bear hunt if I want. Usually after this I've narrowed an area down for rifle or dec/jan archery. Continue scouting and prepare campsite, cache possibles if desired and pump/cache water from nearby source. You can just bivy into a new area blind. I would never do that on the hunt itself, no way to carry enough water for a 4 day min hunt with all the equipment and optics/weapon, full gear ect. Hoping to find water could be disaster. I bivy while scouting and confirming water sources, I carry min equipment for just one or two nights and enough water to get in and out if needed. I usually do this as a 2 or 3 year project for one area, then move on to start again, even if there are still great animals where I'm at. That's the fun of it, the exploring on multiple trips before the hunt. Evaluating if the country can sustain you, can you learn to live in it. Have fun. Kent

Slick Trick, mucho cheaper also. Kent

I bought the J104 a few years before the 107 was availible, there was no adjustments on the suspension. I lucked out and it fit my back fine and have packed 70 lbs with no pack issues. I did get it for the scabbard and run a bladder in the sleeve, the weight of the gun and 3 to 5 liters of water up against my back could be key to my success. The stays need to be adjusted on any pack for your shape, same with my backpacking packs. If I was buying now I would get the 107 for ease of fitting. I would say these are mainly gun packs and if that's your focus they are very good. Since I archery hunt mostly I have went another direction but my brother still uses the 104 and loves it. My wife loves her X1 and I use a MR Nice frame with an X1 combo at times, best of both worlds. Here's the 104 with about 70 lbs of deer, optics, gun, water, pack and misc. 4 miles out hands free. Kent

Love it! Wasn't able to go on my backcountry coues hunt this year, broke my leg elk hunting. Thanks for taking me along on your hunt with the story and pics. Kent

Welcome pilgrim, (in a John Wayne voice) Kent

33 late dec Kent