krp

Well I don't have an issue with rangefinders, GPS, flashlights to get in and out of an area with, all items with batteries that in some way help a little. I am irritated by constant radio or cellphone talking or texting, made the mistake hunting around that twice. Some states have laws against any use except in an emergency or after an animal is down, P&Y has to abide by the state's law also. Again it's about being attached to the bow, if it wasn't there wouldn't be many animals qualifying. Kent

Spine is everything. Once you buy your arrows and have them cut, everything else must match that setup. Bow poundage will only have a small window of correct stability and the head weight has to match also. That's why if you have your bow set at say 67lbs and you buy 3 different brands or weights of arrows and use say a 100 gr head, one arrow setup will shoot better than the others. Not because that brand is better but because it is 10.3 grs per inch and another is 8.7 and another is 9.6. That's the one that is spined best for your bow at 67lbs. Change the poundage and one of the others will probably shoot better. This is a simple example and there's alot into it. Here's why I mention it. You luck out and just happen to hit the perfect spine node right off the bat but decide 70 lbs are better than 67, crank it up, now you have fliers, you're under splned. You decide 125 gr heads are better, underspined. You decide to go with a heavier arrow but use the same 100 gr head, fliers get worse the farther out you shoot, overspined. Spine charts are setup for 100gr heads typically. If you are going to go with a heavier arrow out of your spine for your poundage you will need to use a heavier head to readjust the spine. Once you decide and buy your arrows and head weight, tuning a bow really is as simple as setting the rest and then the poundage of your bow to be optimum for that combo. Don't get locked in on a certain poundage, there's only one true weight for that combo. Incorrectly spined arrows will not hit square and lose penetration. Underspined arrows at closer range, stablizing out farther. Overspined continuing to move out horizontaly the farther out they go. Fliers, horrible wounding things. If your max distance is short, then overspined is not so bad but if you're going to try a longish shot it's worse than underspined. A correctly spined arrow will out penetrate and be more accurate than an incorrectly spined arrow going faster. Any arrow weight you shoot out of a bow set at the same poundage, will start out with the same KE and hit the target at the same distance with the about same KE. A heavier arrow will have a slight momentum advantage but not worth worrying about. Which ever one is spined correctly will out penetrate the other. With all that said the broadhead is what really matters, The bow's the engine. the arrow's the vehicle and the broadhead is what is being delivered. I like a good sharp fixed head that flies like my fieldtips and there is alot of good ones out there these days, your choice of G5's is fine. I like Slick Tricks but have seen good results from other heads. Unless you are going to use a head that is different than a 100 gr, go with what's on the spine chart and then poundage tune your bow. If you're going to use a heavier or lighter head you need to think ahead before you buy and cut your arrows or you'll be chasing tune forever. Kent

I believe you can't use a rangefinder that attaches to your bow. "or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached." Hand held are fine. You can also use radios/cell phones to call/text a hunter over to you and take him to the animal or give updates of what you're seeing, just can't guide their steps to an animal. Kent

Found a better video of what it looks like now, from the same pygmy guide service. It's so strange from the many times I've been in there. But Havasu falls still seem to be there as does a brand new set of falls and mooney falls seems the least effected. If the plant life hasn't been totally desimated and makes a comeback then maybe it'll be kinda neat. I may have to make a quik trip in there if it's open to see. If you can call 12 miles one way a quik trip. Kent

Havasupai, before the big flood last summer. Practicing my photo+music and adding an attachment link. Kent Visit My Website Edit to add this link.

May God watch over you and hold you close. Mike, really nice video. This is an older one but still a favorite of mine. Kent

Well, it doesn't work for me either, I was trying to practice linking to a download but I guess it didn't work permenate. I put it on you tube and here's the link. I wish I didn't have to. Kent

Gary, that's exactly right, there's too much country out there to be giving away secrets by saying X deer was killed in X unit or even X mountain range. There are always big deer in every unit and mt range, that's not a secret either and the one in the pic is not there anymore. I understand the frustration of more tags in a unit when you are glassing areas that are easily accessable, it's more of a race to the deer than a hunt. I just decided to get out of that rat race, won't go back. I could post a pic of google earth to some of my spots, I still wouldn't see anyone there. The trophy glassers aren't going to invest/commit all their time into scouting/hunting an area that may or may not produce the biggest buck and the meat hunters will not pack an animal out that far. There may be others that also just want to hunt and explore new country, if they happen to come into where I am, more power to them. I go for the adventure and always want to see what's over the next ridge. Kent

nlacost, you're doing it right in all ways. Kent

From what little I can find Havasu falls were damaged, Moony falls not so much but lost it's trees in the bottom I think. Here's the only thing I can find from after by packers. The beautiful camping on the creek has changed dramatically according to this video. Kent

Gary, Hey you just gave away every secret spot in 22........... well you forgot 3bar. Bob, I will go anytime, even if you want to just go out and check some areas out to see if you're interested in hunting them. I hunt the Mazatzals, don't worry, you'll get scatched up plenty. I used to strictly hunt down south but once my wife became interested in hunting herself, she wasn't too comfortable hiking into some high saddles and having IA trash everywhere. I had hunted these same remote saddles before but had never seen evidence of IA's before this, only down low. More general thoughts. 22 has some big bucks for sure but if that's the #1 reason a person picks a unit, the units down south have a bigger percentage of deer and big bucks. The first WT I ever killed was the early 80's when it was any antlered deer. Unit 22, less than 20 miles as the crow flies from Mesa, 2000 ft elevation. Just to show their range even in the old days. Backpack hunting isn't about big bucks as much as about the trip. First you have to scout the country and most importantly the water sources. Can it support you for an extended period of time. Is there at least a possibility of taking a mature animal. Are there secondary water sources close just in case. Are you willing to hunt whatever animals happen to be in your range once you commit to an area. Are you willing to go home empty if you just couldn't connect on 'the' buck, because it isn't worth packing a meat buck out that far, and still be more than pleased with the trip. Are you willing to be totally isolated, without the possiblity of even an occasional hunter coming through in case of an emergency. Is it wierd that you can see your footprints from previous scouting trips for months but you have never, in many years, seen another's footprint. Lately I've hunted the wilderness in 24B and the same applies. I haven't even scratched the surface of unhunted country in these units. Kent

Thanks, Doug. Kent

Doug, only the ones right after the flood, it really dug out a deep channel and made some new short falls just past Havasu falls. I haven't been able to find out anything more, just like the tribe to not let out too much info. Kent

bobbyo, if you can get your carpool buddies out of the pickup bed and away from the beer coolers, I'm more than happy to show them some deer. But you'll probably have as much luck as I have getting any takers, lots of interest, just no takers. Kent

Everyone is responsable for picking and training their own pack team, can't help with that. Just my thoughts on 22 and units in the same circumstance. I hated seeing 22 and others move from the Dec WT system but it did. Without mandatory reporting G&F can makeup any numbers they want to add or subtract tags and remove archery hunts. They change the hunt structure every year, this has to be planned so a guy can't get a fix on what's really happening. 2005 Dec hunt 2006 Dec hunt, Nov hunt same time as Mulie hunt and same amount of days, 10. Family members/friends can put in 1st/2nd choice WT/mulie and still camp/hunt the same timeframe. Oh well, at least that's something. 2007 same as 2006 2008 Nov WT is shortened to 7 days, up the tags, only have 25 Dec rifle tags, mulie stays the same, 10 days. Delete the Dec archery hunt. 2009 Nov WT is now at an earlier time frame than mulie and they are both only 7 days. It doesn't matter how many tags are in an area, there are only so many deer that are close enough to the road systems to be available to 95% of the hunters. Adding 200 tags for instance will only add 5% more experienced hunters that will make a difference, 10 hunters, if that. This is what G&F has figured out. Overcrowding a unit, making major changes every year, shortening the hunt to one weekend only, has almost no effect on deer numbers, quality of hunt has no bearing on their decisions. There isn't an army of experienced, hardcore, kill a deer if they walk out the door, hunters out there wanting one of these tags. All they are adding is the least experienced of hunters. Most of these hunters will hunt from just a morning only to most of the first weekend. Not working on their skills, driving their quad, sitting in camp drinking beer most the day, complaining about the lack of deer seen as they drove around and maybe walked a 100 yds to look into a canyon for 1 min. Some will get back in a 1/2 mile or so and spend all morning in an area and up their success level. A smaller group will want to take it even farther and really apply themselves totally to the best of their ability. We can't do anything about the first group. The next two are why we should be on these sites, to help them. If someone shows interest in applying themselves, I'm willing to help in anyway including taking them to some of my spots to get them started in the right direction. Not everyone has a father, grandfather, uncle or friend that can help or share with their desire to hunt. Most of us here are 5%ers. When we offer a hand, we are trying to keep that 5% at that level and not let it drop to 3,2,1%. It would be nice to get it to 20%. Kent

There's plenty of secret spots and deer left, you just gotta do this. Get outa the parking lot. Even the wife and daughter don't mind putting a pack on. Maybe someday I'll actually see someone else back in here, well I did see a cowhand ride his horse through once. Unit 22 Kent

I almost always put a different unit as 1st choice for coues, still alot of units I want to hunt. For 2nd and down I put the old standbys. Will do it again this year and for my 2nd choice also, always seem to find new to me areas that are promising while doing other things. Elk, that's different, I'm much more loyal. Kent

Str8shot, yea, some of those old guys down there know what they're doing. I can just see Keith down there holding court. You know we fish alot and have had some tremendous catches. This trip was the best pure fishing I've ever been on. We released around 50 fish and the big ones like the groupers we had to tie mono to the fish and hook it on an anchor to get them deep enough so they would decompress and break off. The 100 lber we had to put 2 anchors on, I'm talking 25 lb anchors with a 10 ft heavy chain. We targeted 3 on purpose and I landed the mauler also, we quit going after the big ones because it was too hard on them and on us trying to revive them. We only fished 4 hrs max a day. There's no place to launch a boat or dock it. You have to rely on the raised launcher to back you out in the surf and pick you up every time. There's only a few people that have boats needing launching and none were down there except us. The evening we arrived we stop at the launchers house and he's been gone 3 days, his brother will launch us in the early morning. Of course Mexican early time and our time is different. Drive around town, finally find him at 9:30. "$20 dlls or equevalen Mexican Money" Classic Of course when we get back everyone's gone and no one to pick us up. Keith and I swim in and drive around town again and find the original launcher that just returned with a tanker of water. Always an adventure. This place has no power, running water, phone, a tiny market that the owner drives 60 miles of bad dirt road one way every couple days in his van to get stuff. The houses are shacks of plywood, plalets, tin, whatever. The people are themselves clean in their person and cloths, extreemly pleasant, seemingly happy. They have a small school for the few children. The store owner has solar power and satalite TV after dark out in the dirt patio. Usually a decent crowd watching TV every night. Their life is simple, I don't feel sorry for them, I envy them. Kent

Gino, I know what we'll do. There's enough abandoned pongas littered down there that everyone can go. We just need some outboards and some fiberglass repair kits for a few of them. It'll be an adventure. Kent

Ken, you're right, those aren't crappie. The crappie bite should pick back up soon and I'll let you know when it does. The Mexican shrimpers and trawlers haven't been dragging the bottom much the last few years and look what happens. Fish, the reefs aren't continually stripped and destroyed, imagine that. Oh, I forgot, it was global warming. Kent

Kelney, I've promised not to say. I will say this, it's almost impossible to pull a boat into this area. You need to drive the boat over 100 miles on the water and then still get stuck with the truck pulling just the trailer. There are only a handful of Americans and no charters at all, might get someone to take you out in a ponga. You need to be setup long term here. Kent

Yellowtail on the barby dipped in butter, mmmm. We fished 2 days. The first we were dropping jigs and just hammering the white sea bass, yellowtail, leopard grouper(Chardenair), small 30 lb gulf groupers, red snappers. Only keeping those that were hooked bad or like the 10 lb red snapper with all the chew marks on it, those that were mauled by something bigger as we tried to reel them in. Day 2 we bring the big pole and stop to catch some sandbass for bait. Start with jigs again and slaying the fish again. After a few mauling we get out the big tackle and sandies. Caught 3 in a row, one for each of us. Less than 5 min on each drop before we hooked a fish. Kept 2 for the townfolks. Groupers, 70 to 80 lbers. Went back to jigs and I had a decent fish on and then was mauled again about 40 ft off the bottom. I locked in and grabbed my reel so drag wouldn't go out, if he got to the rocks he would get my fish. After 10 mins and he hadn't let go I knew somehow the jig had caught the bigger fish, that's the 100 plus fish I reeled in on the second vid. Catch a fish and then catch the one that eats it. Kent

The house and boat are my friend's, no such thing as a charter here. Kent

I have to leave till friday, just a few things to think about. KRP's group 1 gets 70 tags group 2 gets 30 tags Squared b.p.'s group 1 gets 45 tags group 2 gets 55 tags You need to add the 25 tags that had already went to the max pool. krp's 70 tags to 55 tags, without squaring, the lower group has a lot more bp power than those left in the top group. sdr's 45 tags to 80 tags Add the 125 tags with the 500 draw krp's 350 tags to 275 tags sdr's 225 tags to 400 tags Those at the top are the only ones that want this type of weighted system. Ask the people in the lower and middle bp pools, who actually are the overwelming majority in numbers and BP power, if they care about these higher hunts and if they are willing to delute their hard earned BPs and give up a big portion of their tags, for someone that could have already had a tag, but are holding out. Hold outs could have already had some tags and like the 13,11,10,9,8 BPers in the 3015 hunt I listed, can at anytime jump ship and get one. Those people didn't put in for that hunt before or they would have been in the max pool the years before. They also are not having to wait all that long now and there's no way to lower the wait time anyway, but it sure can be messed up. Just cause they are holding out doesn't mean I have to accomadate them beyond their natural advantage in any way. Kent

First, my numbers aren't an example, that's really what happened. Second, what happened to the 50% deal? Third, you have no idea how many of those in the top pool drew their 2nd choice, quite a few because the lower hunts show that more than half the tags in the top half pools go to 2nd choicers. You have to add those in with the ones that will not be a contender next year for max pool. Also many were in the max pool of their second choice and never got back to the general pool in their 1st choice to contend for that tag. How many more in the top half would have recieved a 1st choice if they hadn't picked up their 2nd before? You're assuming a first choice only draw. I've already said that may be a good option, even without squaring. Hunt # 3015 has (500) tags. 0 to 13 is the BP range, 1375 first choice, 2269 second choice, 3644 total choices. 20% max pool is at 7 bps with 35 tags left to drop to the general. I don't have time for more than a few numbers, you can look up the rest and work them yourself. BPs 1st&2nd 0----413 1----756 2----894 3----610 4----425 5----256 6----155 7-----88 8-----35 9------5 10-----4 11-----2 13-----1 Look how nice and streamlined the BPs are, light at the top, those up there get their tags, the ones in the middle and bottom get their fair share also keeping the sides trimed. Every year the same thing. Takeing an unnatural amount from the top will cause the max pool to be one BP group in a short time and because those behind aren't having many tags, they will bunch up also. The more the top groups bunch and continue to square their points the less tags for those under until it's a PP system and totally clogged. If I only use the first choice, man, I can move 1375 apps through fast without squaring. Of course there will be more than that if it was 1st only draw, alot of those second choicers would back off the higher draws and come back to this one as 1st. Hey, backing off the higher draws, would that help those waiting for a premium tag? Even 9ER is nice and streamlined and holding at 18 BPs max, not bad. Ok, you squared 9ER, that's 150,000 numbers for just that hunt the computer has to give out, square all the hunts and you get a 15,000,000? more? I don't like my odds, even with 1500 numbers against that many. You're selling more lottery tickets in the lottery I'm trying to win, even with 1500 tickets. I still don't know why just because someone wants to hold out, their BPs should be worth more squared per, than mine per. I had some other snappy things to say but I forgot. The main question you have for me is not if I think you will be able to in the long run get everyone a elk tag faster on average, but if I think those that have more BPs should have a right to more then their natural share of tags no matter what happens to everyone else. Your answer is yes and mine is no. I give you credit for working out a decent responce. Kent