idgaf

What the question is too hard for you? you said ". I'm here to strategize with those interested in finding funding solutions for the proposed Game and Fish outreach plan. And like I've stated several times, but apparently it's in invisible ink,." but yet you have no clue what your strategizing and or for whom? you sound pretty wishy washy since you started posting. as far as me and conservation BLOW ME you have no clue oh, I have more than a clue. You're just angry that someone is doing something you didn't think of. You aren't going to support anything that isn't your idea. Well guess what, lots of sportsmen want this education plan in place, and they even want raffle tags. Maybe not auction tags, and I'm cool with that. For your offer in your last sentence, get Ringer to do it, hes used to it. RED, Just out of curiosity how many big game animals have you taken in the state of Arizona? Fred

Please don't represent the hunting public of Arizona. Your not a good example and not very persuasive.whenever you want to step up and fill in, be my guest. You've done such a good job of doing absolutely nothing thus far. My doing nothing was probably better for the cause than your antics.

Please don't represent the hunting public of Arizona. Your not a good example and not very persuasive.

Bruce, this still helps because I can do the math from licenses sold in 2013 to licenses sold in 2018 and get an estimate. Fred

Does anybody what the license fees were for 2012/2013?

Thanks

if only your opinion mattered. We can all agree the HSUS sucks, the question is funding and how to get it. Elites and those that cater to the elites want tags. Normal hunters want something else. The extremist on both sides should not be the focus, it should be the 70% that are not. Judging by your posts I am not sure I would want you leading a fight against anyone or anything.

again, i think I'll do as I please. Let me know how long you want to continue the pissing contest before we get back to more relevant conversation. A newbie with 29 posts such as this in a day. Such a way to win friends and influence people! I think you have a lot of insecurities if you are judging yourself off of post counts in a forum. And you are deluding yourself if you think they give you any clout. I think you might be just a tad bit upset that another rooster came into your henhouse and interrupted your bash fest of a good group of people.I think you are in love with your own voice and frankly either just trolling or have very little concern with the issues.i think you are inventing a problem that doesn't exist so you can be a hero on a non issue. yep trolling. Troll

again, i think I'll do as I please. Let me know how long you want to continue the pissing contest before we get back to more relevant conversation. A newbie with 29 posts such as this in a day. Such a way to win friends and influence people! I think you have a lot of insecurities if you are judging yourself off of post counts in a forum. And you are deluding yourself if you think they give you any clout. I think you might be just a tad bit upset that another rooster came into your henhouse and interrupted your bash fest of a good group of people. I think you are in love with your own voice and frankly either just trolling or have very little concern with the issues.

Dave, in about twenty minutes. I have a last minute thing to do for one of my customers. Fred

Thank you

That does and thanks. With the help of couple of CWTers I plan on sending you a viable option that you can take to the board to fund the educational side of this endeavor by the end of the weekend.

who are the actual tag grabbers? I do I am asking you questions that you are evading and deflecting. Personally, I do not need a group or credit like many of the people on here to turn non-hunters to people that support hunting. I have turned many cat loving liberals into people that favor hunting. Now I am asking you again, In your opinion is the political arm funded by special interest that want to purchase these permits from the educational side of CAPAZ?

I am addressing it with you as the resident CAPAZ expert. Now in your opinion is my assumption correct or incorrect?Im relaying the same information available to all of us. Decide on your own if your asdumptions are correct. Do you make a habit of letting others think for you in addition to fighting your battles? I make the habit of listening to all sides, before coming to a conclusion. Where is this information available? If we were fighting a battle right now, I think your losing.

I am addressing it with you as the resident CAPAZ expert. Now in your opinion is my assumption correct or incorrect?

I understand the disconnect between the two arms of CAPAZ. I understand the tags will support education to the 70% of the AZ residents that have no opinion on hunting. What I am asking you in the simplest terms how is the political arm funded? IF you ask me to draw a conclusion from your somewhat evasive answers, I would say the political arm is funded by the elite hunters that money is secondary and hunting areas that right now money can not buy every year would be their interest. Please enlighten me and let me know how this conclusion is wrong. Their political funding is their business. You can draw your own conclusions. You can also hire your own lawyers and consultants and form your own 501c (4) and tell your donors you are going to make their contributions public. Let me know how many big businesses you get to donate. Your right and then I can get some wealthy backers and get them tags every year. Like CAPAZ, right? Do I have to promise them the tags upfront or are they willing to wait for the process to work out?

I understand the disconnect between the two arms of CAPAZ. I understand the tags will support education to the 70% of the AZ residents that have no opinion on hunting. What I am asking you in the simplest terms how is the political arm funded? IF you ask me to draw a conclusion from your somewhat evasive answers, I would say the political arm is funded by the elite hunters that money is secondary and hunting areas that right now, money cannot buy, every year would be their interest. Please enlighten me and let me know how this conclusion is wrong.

the strategy employed by CAPAZ has been thoroughly explained. But we reached out to over 20,000 hunters in this State and got a handful of active volunteers. Perhaps you should do some self reflections on your own contributions instead of trying to find fault with the group that bailed us out. I sat through the meeting and took notes. I do not understand how CAPAZ is funded (maybe I missed that portion) Also, it was mentioned by CAPAZ Dignitaries that you only put your strategy together for the tags two weeks ago. So if you could tell me or point me to the web site where CAPAZ shows where they will get the money for the political battles I would be appreciative? Also, Did the organization that you are part of raise the money for this fight against HSUS? Or did that money which they used come directly out of your pocket?

https://youtu.be/npD4i1X4ofM 29 minutes of the meeting

From what Im told he was one of the originators of the first tag grab. I would not trust him with a javelina tag in 25m to auction. He made mention AZSFWC is no more. Play the game GOOGLE THIS Jim Unmacht --and their face book page just posted something an hour or two ago.

idgaf - The main obstacle at this stage is how those funds can be used. If AZGFD generates them in any form, through the current donation channel (as I suggested), stamps, you name it... they will earmark those funds to a general fund. This concept sounds great until we consider what that really means - new trucks, larger PC monitors, fancier decorations, blah blah blah. Isn't that just more of the same ol' lame ol' government gross mismanagement of funds? Who's in for that? Not me. SO, this is where it gets interesting and where the conversation has actually turned a corner. As mentioned in my previous post and to your point as well; yes many of the members at the meeting did not give you the impression that they had much intention of working hard to come up with alternatives. BUT, this is where WE come in to play. These folks are clearly a bit tired of only hearing from hunters when someone sounds the bell and the mob comes running. The very same people who go back to their lives and leave these evil board members to go back to doing all of dirty work we reap rewards from i.e. water tanks being repaired, water hauled, fences mended, and on and on... This group is clearly not getting younger (no offense intended here) and there is NOBODY in line to help fill the void. The more I understand, the less I believe it's about the tags. I could be flat ars wrong. But I don't think so. These people need help, they need fresh ideas, and they need your help to hound the H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS out of the AZGFD reps to figure out a different way to get this job done. If we don't ride this out and get our hands dirty, they are going to get the job done the best they see fit AND we will just have to live with the results. I am with you and I will do the research this weekend when some of my work stuff gets out of the way. The idea that I would pitch is a separate line item on your hunting and fishing license like they have for search and rescue in Colorado (or the 911 fee on you phone bill) that way they can easily define the monies for education.

Thanks for the clarification with that misunderstanding cleared up I truly believe the ada is to be a worthwhile organization with the best best interests of wildlife and hunting at their core. I still disagree with reallocation of tags using the feudal system. I will edit momentarily Fred

I left my camera on my desk at work(hopefully) I will post in the am

The guy with the pony tail at the corner of the tables. If that was you, you had several Freudian slips regarding AZFWC while mentioning that you are not AZFWC.

This is my take from last nights meeting. Let me preface what I am about to say with there are some really good people with passion for wildlife and hunting on the ADA. I did not get that feeling some of the leaders of the Conserve and Protect board. One of the things I do for work is negotiate deals, so many times when I ask a question I am not paying attention to what they say but how they react to the question/situation to get a more accurate answer of what they are really thinking. (in poker that would be called 'tells') According to my interpretation of what this contingency is trying to do two things; one is education to the 70% of residents of Arizona that are neither for nor against hunting. Secondly, and more passionately they want to fight the HSUS. According to them they want the tags for education only and to not fight the HSUS. I pushed them a little bit to see how much money they need for education of the non-hunters and finally they came up with an amount of 500-750k. Bruce came up with the idea of adding a 1.00 to hunting licenses to get that amount (534,000 hunting licenses were sold last year according to the elk guy) This was dismissed relatively quickly. Conserve and Protects goal for the evening was to try to figure out how many tags the public would be comfortable with giving them so they can raise money for 'education' My take on this is, they do not just want the tags for money, they want the tags for the prestige of being able to allocate tags like their big brothers(elk society, arizona super raffle, antelope foundation). Because of ego, short of somebody handing them ten million dollars they are fixated on getting tags and as many as they can. HSUS war chest number was thrown around many times and it was a number over 200,000,000. I find that very hard to believe that they would spend .1% of that to end lion hunting in AZ with how quickly they dropped out of the getting lion hunting on the ballot. Once again, in my opinion, they do not want alternatives to raising money for education which may or may not be needed. They want tags. I do not believe they have done the necessary research to quantify anything yet, but that's what these meeting could be used for and maybe some more studying of the numbers. Bruce brought up some very valid points that I would consider and am going to run with a little bit to raise the necessary capitol to move the 70% without an opinion to the hunting side. I feel the super raffle guy and ADA have integrity, they elk guy may, but the Conserve and Protect guy I would not trust. my camera ran out of batteries about twenty minutes into it. if you want to watch the first part, I can post on you tube. Also they made mention that AZFWC is no more and has been disbanded, but I did see a few Freudian slips from the Conserve and Protect guy in regards to AZFWC so you be the judge.