Elkhunter1

I could watch that all day long. Great shot and point!!!

I understand the REAL world. I just want to die knowing my grand kids will still have one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't understand that than YOU ARE THE IDIOT........ Now there is the "new" movement called "RECYCLING" maybe you have heard of it. It just might save this planet you call home! Personally I would tell you to go back under your rock but I am afraid the mine would move it and crush you, so read it or not i will continue to post my feelings and opinions on this glorious website.

I just used the numbers you provided and ran them. I used the department store because it is a sector of jobs everbody can identify with.

I too have worked in and around department stores, maybe not the high end stores, but i think the lower end stores are the ones that might benefit from the mine. Even if the stores increase the work force it won't be managers it will be the workers that they laid off over the last three years. Their wages will never reach the average you speek of. You are correct you didn't say there would be more department stores, I for one would like to know what jibes you think will be generated other than the ones in the mine. I believe that the jobs would range from the high end diesel mechanics to the clerks in the convenience stores. You stated about 400 jobs directly from the mine and around 2100 total with peripheral jobs and the average wage of 47,000 for a total of around 100 million per year. OK your new Numbers are, the average mining wage is 60,000 that, times 400 jobs is only 24 million the remaining 76 million divided by the 1700 peripheral jobs need to average 44,705, does that sound right to you? When I was hourly and the assistant field manager making 17.01 per hour my base pay was 35,380. Do you really think the the average hourly wage in Arizona is at 21.50?????? I hate to say it but I think you have been out of the trenches too long.

AMEN! It's all in how you look at it.. Through rose colored glasses or through "RED"

not going to comment on my post on salaries Mr Quimby? I was having fun with our debate>

Ok there is all the guesses, now, WHO is the winner? who who come on who, who, just tell us now! :D :D

I feel your pain! I too recently had to re-evaluate my financials after eating all of my 401-k. i took the jump and started my own business as a sub-contractor. I would give almost anything for my family, but not the future of my family, there come a time one has to say NO, NOT HERE. That time for me is now!!! Unfortunately, my wife and stepdaughter abandoned ship. Left me to deal with the damage, so it is just me now, to do as I will. Hopefully find a financial life again! I am sorry to hear that. I don't think I could have held up to that kind of pain. You are a tough man. Good hunting to you.

Very classy Gino, as you said your opinion is just that. I too have made some rough statements and stand by them but I also can admit when I'm wrong. Now I am not saying you were wrong just that one has to balance his own self from time to time. Good hunting to all Stephen

I feel your pain! I too recently had to re-evaluate my financials after eating all of my 401-k. i took the jump and started my own business as a sub-contractor. I would give almost anything for my family, but not the future of my family, there come a time one has to say NO, NOT HERE. That time for me is now!!!

I realy don't think this mine will bring aditional stores from Macys, JCP or Sears. You might argue it could bring Walmart, Target or K-Mart all of which pay managers 32,000 to 38,000. I was the assistant field manager working hourly with my manager on salary and I made more than he did, due to overtime. I also made more than the site manager in charge of a crew of 60 with four field managers under him. The region he controlled was southern Arizona, Yuma to Portal and all south. We could argue this all day, the point still remains these numbers are all fictitious until they are set in stone that is all they are

As far as I can see it Lark is running circles around you as he has stayed focused on the problem at hand AZSFW! Yes Lark can get a little "off the wall" but that stuff has its place. What you are saying has no place here and won't be listened to. You just need to fade away, just as you arrived. I don't know who you are and quite frankly I don't care to, just GO AWAY.

Bill you have obviously missed all the complaining and bitching the Green Valley residents did last year over the blowing dust from the very tailings you spoke of. The wage number of 47,000 a year you also spoke of is very high, department store managers don't make that much. I know people that hold B.S. degrees that don't make that. Who are you speaking of and what position do they hold, so I can get trained in that field. I guess I just don't see it so.... "show me the money"

It was bad enough we have to watch our backs from the coyotes and drug runners down here, now we have to watch our fronts from the legislature. Didn't we elect them to serve us? They really don't understand that hunting for most of us isn't a sport it is a way of life. My last name means "KEEPER OF THE GAME PRESERVE" I take that meaning to heart! I would seriously suggest they rethink their position.

I guess I missed that! Where did the fence come from? Oh is it like the telephone poll that "jumped" out in front of the drunk driver? Ha Ha

What a great site C.W is. I've been a lurker here for many years. I've learned a lot from some positive people just so happens your not one of them. All I ever read out of your walking fingers is cry, cry, piss, piss, moan, then moan some more. You must have some pretty strong fingers, let me guess its not your fault it's your wife's. What a life you must have to sit on the side of the road, eating a roadside sandwich and have nothing better to do other than find Internet service just so you can talk your crap. Get out of the closet already, wipe off your bacon drapes and get a life. Computer tough guy is all you are, must be an exciting thing to look forward to in the morning. BTW most of the people you put down have done way more for wildlife than sitting behind a computer like you. Your just a pot stirring trouble maker like poison in the blood. Sorry just tired of reading your SMACK!!! Hint Your the inspiration for my username. Ha Ha Ha +111

I have talked with politicians on other subjects and they always say the numbers are an "educated Guess" and you should take 20% off. When you bid on a job, do you increase 10 to 20 % for materials? I know I do! You need room to move, you never know when you might need that extra piece or job.

On some levels you are right, but not "my back yard" If I had the money to purchase land down there I would! Yes that area is spectacular. I am just not ready to "OK" the project when I know they can go further to protect the environment than they are. I'm sure you have heard of "minimal code" When it comes to our "BACK YARD" I want them to go beyond "MINIMAL" Is that to much to require?

My contracting business is entirely dependent on copper. I'm just saying that I don't believe anybody can say with any certainty that there won't be any long term damage to the ecosystem, other than the eye sore. I also understand the plan doesn't include remediation of used ground or the tailings. Again my main concern is the damage that can happen to the ground water through depletion and or contamination.

Just make sure you file the sight off of that 9mm if you're ever in grizzly country. It'll hurt a lot less when that bear gets to you and shoves it up your rear end... I might be CRAZY but I'm not stupid! Grizzly country = 50 cal or bigger.

Maybe not directly but by trying to put me and Azman in the "enviro Wackos" group you have pushed me to perceive this as name calling. If I am wrong then let me admit it and apologize but this issue is going to tear this community apart if we can't get together and discuss this like the passionate hunters we are.

OK enough is enough. AZLANCE it is painfully clear you are the type of person that goes straight to the name calling when someone has an opinion that differs from yours. Well here I go getting way down to your level as I see you only understand your level. Wow this is harder than it looks, I can't really find the words to describe what I think of you. How do you do it? I guess the best I can do is you are the type of hunter that doesn't care about any other hunters or any place but "your" hunting grounds. You might think you are all "high and Mighty" but you hit the ground just as hard as the rest of us. If mining is the only thing you can do then I'm right,,,,, YOU CAN'T BE RETRAINED, are you just an old dog? SORRY JIMMER I just couldn't hold out any longer, some times you just have stand and push back! It's all some poeple understand.

you have obviously never shot someone with one. I have! I have also seen the damage one can do to the body. If you use the right round with the right powder charge behind it you can kill anything you accurately shoot. You underestimate the the 9mm round when it is in a set of capable hands. As previously stated in my previous post the ballistics of what I shoot. That testing was done according to the FBI standards for ballistic testing, 10% gelatin. When you don't have ballistic gelatin you can make a troff out of 2x8's. Fill and place several 1 gallon zip lock bags, standing them up. Shoot from about 10 ft measure distance bullet travels in the troff and multiply by .56 and you get penetration. You can put different mediums in front of the zip locks prior to shooting for a more realistic "SHOOTER" scenario. I'm not saying that the 9mm is the only round out there, I'm saying don't count it out.

I have a Taurus 99 in 9mm. yes 9mm. I shoot a 147grn hornady XTP that has a ballistic penetration of 12.5 inches with an expansion of 2.6 and weight retention of around 96%. I do believe this will take care of the o'l bear as well as any two legged critters challenging you. A couple extra clips in my pack and hunting down south is as safe as you can get.

Most of the interpretation of laws is under "what a reasonable person would interpret the law to be" at least in all the cases I've been involved in. Just my 1/2 cent worth.