twigsnapper

Almost new, only used a couple times. Comes with box, snug fit cover, objective cover, missing eye piece cover. Located in Phx $390 obo Andy 602-881-061

Hump day bump day

Ill take this too, pm sent Andy

Ill take it, pm sent Andy

I was irritated to hear the committee is now an internal AZGFD committee...... It will be interesting to see who is on the committee and how much fundraising experience they have.

1999 Excel 5th wheel camper. Pretty good condition for its age. 30 feet long, has a built in generator with 62 hours on it. Fires right up. This trailer was given back to the bank as a repo and then i bought it about a month ago. I have cleaned it up a bit and tested all the systems and everything seems to work as it should. AC is cold, freezer is cold, plumbing works good. Both slides work fine. I put brand new batteries and 4 new tires on it to get it moved and test the systems. I am open to trades for a bumper pull camper around 20-24 feet or a utv or....? It can be seen in Sun City right off the 101. Call or text me with questions. $5,900 Andy 602-881-0610

Yep sure do, both very nice, very hard working women who have given tons and tons of time to Arizona's wildlife groups.

Bump, will also sell

I built this years ago and no longer need it. Solid trailer, needs some TLC. Has a ramp for loading a quad. Has full size tires with 6 lug Toyota rims. Comes with permanent plate. $900 Call text or pm Andy 601-881-0610

Bump, open to trades for guns or optics...or..?

Yes great info. I met Evan from US Sportsmans Alliance last year at the Sheep Show. It was incredible to hear how much stuff they are involved in.

Bumpity bump

The world could use a few more like Bill. Prayers sent, rest easy ole fella. We are with you....

Will do if you have the time and are willing to do it. Maybe you and AZKiller should email the commissioners and tell them that. Andrew Gillett

Flatlander - did you ask the commissioners to be considered as one of the committee members? I think you would add some good insight/perspective to that committee.

There is a ton of info here: https://wildlife.utah.gov/utah-expo-permits-faq.html

A raffle is not the same as a normal draw system like you say. In a draw system you get a bonus point when not drawn and your odds increase most likely each year that you aren't drawn. In a raffle everyone is unlucky but 1 guy, and everyone just spent a ton of money for no increase in draw odds. Not all states have point systems. Go ask the residents of Wyoming(elk, deer, antelope) and New Mexico how their point system works. Wyoming uses preference points which is a fair way of doing a draw. New Mexico uses a lottery where everyone has equal chances. New Mexico and Wyoming also refund unsuccessful applicants. A raffle doesn't refund unsuccessful applicants and your kind of raffles for the rich guys I doubt would have everyone getting equal odds. Also in my opinion the way Arizona does their bonus points is more fair than these two states that you have mentioned. So Arizona does it better than most if not all and you guys are trying to make it worse than the rest. So if I look at your post above, what point are you trying to make other than change to the subject? Wyoming residents dont have presence points for elk deer or antelope, both states charge a fee to apply, which is no different than the cost of a raffle ticket. In some raffles you can buy multiple chances, some raffles only allow one ticket per person. The rules around the proposed tags havent even been established, and this isnt my proposal, Im just trying to clear up the gobs and gobs of misinformation that people keep trying to spread on this sight. Sooo, WY(resident elk deer and antelope) and New Mexico basically run a raffle for their draws with one entry per person....

A raffle is not the same as a normal draw system like you say. In a draw system you get a bonus point when not drawn and your odds increase most likely each year that you aren't drawn. In a raffle everyone is unlucky but 1 guy, and everyone just spent a ton of money for no increase in draw odds. Not all states have point systems. Go ask the residents of Wyoming(elk, deer, antelope) and New Mexico how their point system works.

Sorry AZKiller, im a little quick on the trigger these days...

It doesnt say anything about equal opportunity for all, if it was equal opportunity for all, bonus point and preferences point system would violate the model.

#4 Hunting Opportunity for All Every citizen has an opportunity, under the law, to hunt and fish in the United States and Canada.

You could argue that, but you would be lying to yourself. If 300 tags are given to the raffle and tickets are sold for $10 and a 10 ticket per person limit were imposed then that would mean if someone were to max out on all of the rafffles it would cost him $30k. For his investment he would have 3000x more chance of drawing a tag than someone who bought a single ticket. That is the definition of disparity. Even for a single hunt anyone can purchase 10x more opportunity than another for $90 more investment. This is exactly my concern with these systems. They are built to exploit economic disparity among sportsmen. So will anyone please for crying out loud tell me why it HAS to be tags. Why is that the only option a certain group of people will advocate for? Your math is wrong. That's not how odds work. I thought you were the odds guy My point isnt that your odds would be better, my point is that offering a chance at a tag for $5 makes it more accessible for some people than having to pay $13. Flatlander keeps arguing that the North American model is at being violated beacuase of the proposed raffle tags but its not. The North American Model doesnt say anything about keeping draw odds at a particular level. Auctioning tags is a different argument but a raffle is no different than a lottery tag through a normal draw system.

IF raffle tags are used, and that's still an IF, a new program similar to the Big Game Super Raffle would be created. The current Big Game Super Raffle is mandated by legislation to disperse its funds to HPC. This one would be similar except funds would be Game and Fish. No outside organization would get any money. Who get's the HPC money? I am pretty sure its the critter groups and they guys that run the critter are the same people on CPAZ. Your are 100% incorrect. All the money raised goes back to the G&F and is held separate from the other funds of the G&F. Absolutely no money is kept by the critter groups.

If 300 tags are given to the raffle and tickets are sold for $10 and a 10 ticket per person limit were imposed then that would mean if someone were to max out on all of the rafffles it would cost him $30k. For his investment he would have 3000x more chance of drawing a tag than someone who bought a single ticket. That is the definition of disparity Also, if someone wants to spend $30,000 on raffles tickets, I say heck ya, thats $30,000 more than we would get from him otherwise. If we use a stamp we would only get $5 bucks from the guy. Thats $30,000 hes not spending on landowner tags in WY/MT/CO.

You could argue that, but you would be lying to yourself. If 300 tags are given to the raffle and tickets are sold for $10 and a 10 ticket per person limit were imposed then that would mean if someone were to max out on all of the rafffles it would cost him $30k. For his investment he would have 3000x more chance of drawing a tag than someone who bought a single ticket. That is the definition of disparity. Even for a single hunt anyone can purchase 10x more opportunity than another for $90 more investment. This is exactly my concern with these systems. They are built to exploit economic disparity among sportsmen. So will anyone please for crying out loud tell me why it HAS to be tags. Why is that the only option a certain group of people will advocate for? I would actually prefer a stamp over raffle tags but selfishly if Im paying $5 or $10 Id rather get a chance at a tag than getting a stamp of no value. Do you disagree with bonus points or preference points? They have similar idea as you just illustrated, creating disparity....And i suppose violating the North American model with your argument of having more chances than others with less points