Flatlander

Tic toc

Alright guys it can start tomorrow. Guesses on time the first card hit post pops up (w/screen shot). 9:34 AM tomorrow

Start shoulder rehab a week from tomorrow. Can't wait to start shooting.

Cuz the title says 4b lolOh yeah forgot this was a sleeper thread

Feels like a different mood this year. Remember the 35 page circus that was last years waiting for draw results thread? Fingers crossed for a smooth process.

Hey guys, the day after tomorrow is the deadline. Anybody getting antsy?!?!

I have no insider information. I am just counting down the days till they can charge cards. I think that there is a very good chance they will be ready to hit cards this Friday.

4 days . . .

Holy crap, someone actually researched their point and found the correct data to support it instead of just talking out their butt and trying to sound smart. Dang, never thought I'd see the day.

I am confused. The decoys look like sandhill cranes but the dead birds look like canadiens. Am I just seeing them wrong? Are they all flying ribeyes?

Living in ID was awesome. The cold rarely kept us inside, just bundle up and head out. I loved the atmosphere and all the hunting.

One week baby.

Don't need anything complicated. Just relocating a light switch and receptacle. You'll have to crawl around in my attic. I'd do it my self but my bum shoulder won't let me right now and I don't want to wait for it to heal. I'll pay you fair.

8 days . . .

So if 4a/b is for the newbs what units do I need to put in for to be in the major leagues, to hang out with the cool kids? I am pretty sure all the cool guys apply for 9, 10, 23 or 1. But I know some pretty cool people who hunt in 4B, so . . . But I think what Chris s was saying was that in 4a/b you used to could draw a tag much more often than in other more popular units which provided more opportunity to call elk and develop ones skills. It's harder to draw now but not near as bad as some of those other units.

10 days till cc charges CAN start

10 days . . .

Very good discussion. I hope you share everything you just said at a public input meeting.

1) ok. i'll buy that. but i can say the same. but my point here is that we do live in hunting culture, and people are not often offended at the sight of dead animals. also, my point here is not to say that you are paraniod per se, but that people in general are more accepting of hunting practices that you may realize. please don't take personal offense. im ultimately on your side here. 2), i'm not really holier than thou, or even a great hunter. I just want to point out that a lot of guys really aren't hard core, don't want to go way out to get an elk or deer steak. and i respect that as much as a back country longbow hunter, like aron snyder. but beer belly billy bob should get his day too. 3) you're right, those guys really aren't that important. I guess the backyard deer hunters aren't either. 4) maybe it's been a while since you've seen where houses have popped up. yes, the back tip of mayfield and some of the further reaches of pine creek could still be hunted, and maybe if you got out a rangefinder and stepped it off, you could even find a legal tree to put a stand on on strawberry mountain, but by and large these traditional areas would be off limits to people who have hunted here for years. once again, i'd like to point out that urban hunting is a common practice throughout the united states, and has helped, and not hurt the image of hunting and hunters overall, i believe. i don't think that we would be an exception to that. Can you offer an example of where legal urban archery hunting has hindered hunting privileges, or been detrimental to the practice of hunting? If you can, i'd like to hear about it. Yes in unit 19A the antelope hunt used to allow hunters to hunt West of Robert Road. The proximity to homes after development ultimately lead to conflicts which got the area closed to archery antelope hunting. I was there the last year it was open. I chased a monster buck. I also oissed off a lot of homeowners and they told of me as much. I should have been better. I really think your beef is with development, not hunting. Ultimately, as habitat is lost or encroached, these conflicts arise. It's the world we live in.

1) I have formed my opinions from my experience hunting for 20+ years. They were not dreamt up in some paranoid delirium sitting on the couch. 2) Save your holier than thou because you live in Payson condescension. I don't live there and never have. I have lived in over a dozen western towns with populations ranging from 5,000 to 5 million. They all have rednecks and they all have hippies. 3) There are a total of 70 archery cow tags in unit 22. I doubt that half of them are local. So we are talking about fewer than 35 people being impacted by your examples, success on that hunt is less than 20%. So of the 35 locals who cannot hunt their personal piece of property which is less than 400 yds wide less than 7 of them were ever going t kill an elk anyway. This is a very small sacrifice for a potentially huge risk. 4) Your description of areas that would be closed is not accurate. Perhaps portions of them, where they are close to homes. However, to generalize the entire area as being closed is an overstatement.

Your points about wildlife inhabiting urban areas are not misunderstood here. However, they are not the premise of the argument. No one is challenging that A ) Wildlife exists in urban areas B ) In those areas conflicts between wildlife and humans occur In those areas. The premise of the argument is that hunters using these areas often create conflict with landowners and that conflict threatens hunting as a whole. Your point that people who live in the portals hunt the portals is a perfect example of a hunting populis that refuses to self regulate. The portals are clearly posted No Hunting and its in the cc&r's that hunting cannot occur there. So if an outsider is to drive in there and hunt then they could be reported and cited for trespassing. However, the home owner who thinks that he is above that rule hunts within the community, he essentially is taking the entire community as his own personal hunting preserve because all others are excluded from hunting there. In so doing he gives all hunters a bad name and we as a collective group endure the damaged image he causes. It's his fault that this rule is on the table to begin with. How selfish can someone be that they cannot even respect the collective wishes of their own neighbors by not hunting in the neighborhood? Therein lies the problem.

That is not what I described at all and you know it. And if you think that your behavior in the woods is not subject to the scrutiny of others then you are a fool. The wildlife in our forests belong to the eco-nazis who moved here from California last year just as much as they do to you and I. Everybody's vote counts the same. And when weighed in the court of public opinion, who is going to win, the guy with a Facebook page full of pictures with blood on his face and beer in his hands or the lady showing a video of a spike deer bleeding out on her lawn? That's not a fight I want to take on. I mean, really, how hard is it to just stay away from houses? I can count on one hand the number of times I have had to worry about this when hunting. It's just common sense.

BC777 is dead on with this argument. The first time the anti's get ahold of a cell phone video someone posts from their front porch in chaparral pines or the portals of a deer with a freaking arrow in it blowing bloody bubbles out its nose and bellering for its mom, it's all over. That thing will get slapped on social media, in tv ads and the anti's will have all they need for a ballot measure to end bowhunting. Talk as tough as we may, the fact is we live in a democracy where science does not always prevail. We have to protect the image of hunters as conservationists and 90% of the voting populous isn't going to read a research study on how beneficial it is to harvest deer or how effective archery is for certain situations. Game and Fish has a vested interest in preserving the sport. The day hunting is gone so are 90% of their jobs. And as hunters, we do a TERRIBLE job of self policing these things. If it's legal, someone's going to do it, that's just the way it is. We don't have to like it, but it's true.

What the heck do they use them for? Cause if it's to help some poor sucker have kids that would be fine but if it's going to become a legit tea bag I am going to have to rethink it.

This thing is awesome, and Kowa now needs a new business model. This thing has me thinking of ways to scrounge up money already.