Flatlander

PM Sent. I don't care about the box, I will take it.

I would go quality over power. You could rent some 15x's or a spotter from Ross Outdoor or Optics 4 Rent. I would rent Swaro SLC or EL's or before I would buy Vortex Kaibabs. I know that wont be popular with some, but if you dont do this type of hunting much I wouldn't waste my money on a lower end optic that you wont be able to use later.

Depends on what you want. If you want to hunt rutting bulls either of the archery hunts will accomplish that. If you want the biggest possible bulls then 23 late might be the best option. I wouldn’t even entertain 22 South Muzzleloader or Unit 1 late.

Jay Scott just had Shadow Valley Outfitters on his podcast to talk about the elf draw and they covered these units in detail. I’d give that a listen.

Maybe less.

What is the public access like in 19a or 19b? Its huntable but all the good bucks pretty much get killed on the archery and muzzleloader hunts. 19B has more access available for a trespass fee. I think it’s pretty steep, but if you can pay there are typically some giant bucks. In 19B you can pay for access to Perkinsville, some years there are good bucks there, sometimes there aren’t and you waste $1500. I am also looking at units 4 and 5. In 4A or 4B you might have to look harder for a top end buck but there is tons of public land. Looks like you would be bonus pass for 4B and maybe just out for 4A. 5A and 5B are good units with tons of public land. You probably wouldn’t make bonus pass for either. 9 and 10 are really looking good, what is the access to the big bo like and would it be worth purchasing the access permit. I don’t know 9, but here good things. We hunted 10 this year. You definitely need the big bo permit, don’t get cheap and cut yourself off from more than 50% of the antelope habitat. Last year was supposedly a down year and we saw some really good bucks come out of there. It’s worth putting in for. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Here is my .02 on all those units: 22 - Big unit with tons of deer and tons of tags. Lots of wilderness and I am sure you could get away from the big crowds there. However with the number of tags you are going to see some people, even in the back country. There aren’t as many hunts in the units with elk because they don’t overlap deer and elk seasons. Which brings to mind an added benefit that you could learn the unit and return some day to hunt elk. Very popular unit that gets hunted a lot in general so animals do get pressured here. 23 - Same as above but without one of the main freeways in the state running through it. Better quality, harder to draw. I don’t think there is a big chunk of designated wilderness but lots of remote places. 24a - Good unit with lots of coues country. High tag numbers and without elk seasons to compete with these deer get hunted for weeks on end with a fresh batch of tag holders showing up every Friday in November. Keep in mind that your opening day is not the bucks opening day. 24b - Steep desert canyons, the ones that aren’t moonscape from last summer’s fire are covered in thorns and rattlesnakes. It’s close to Phoenix and has some of the best draw odds in the state, because people don’t like hunting it. There is good country and wilderness available and some big bucks do come out of the unit but numbers are not as high as down south and the hunting is harder. I hunt there every other year and end up swearing never again every time. Then a year goes by and I forget. I won’t be hunting there next year. 31 - I don’t think there is a lot of designated wilderness here and the unit isn’t terribly remote. But it’s got tons of coues country in it. This unit has a lot of hunts and the locals work it over pretty good but it always produces some nice bucks and it has a little bit of everything. I used to hunt there more, but it’s a long ways from an airport and there aren’t a lot of places to take a rental car. But you could start on top of My Graham and hunt down. You’d need a ride back to the top but I bet you could figure that out. 32 - There are some private land access issues that can complicate this unit. I don’t know if there is a trailhead that would get you into the Galiuro’s or not. Beware, the back roads here can be brutal. 33 - Big Unit with tons of deer in it. Very close to Tucson or Phoenix. Lots of tags with hunts back to back for most of the fall. But there is wilderness and just remote back country. If there weren’t so many tags this would hands down be the best coues unit there is. But if I were you, I’d look hard at this unit. If you can spend the entire hunt, I would recommend one of the earlier ones to beat the pressure. Regardless of unit: Beware that the early hunts will have plenty of snakes out and about. Just watch where you step and sit. The hunts that are late November/Early December usually have decent odds and are a few days longer than the early ones. The deer have been pressured, but the weather is usually pleasant, but this year they got lots of rain and snow at that time. Good luck and keep us posted on your plans!

If you get 4 chances to get a low random number and thus a better position in line, how is that statistically any different than having your name in the hat 4x for random selection (not being argumentative here, if there is a mathematical difference I would like to know)? I have always believed the reason AZGFD publishes the draw odds the way they do is because it is impossible to derive truly accurate odds from their raw data. Because they don’t typically publish resident vs NR application info, nor is there anyway to extrapolate the exact number of 2nd choice applicants who drew their 1st choice and are not considered for the remaining passes, that they just took a generic high level look at overall applicants vs overall available tags. However, correcting for bonus pass allocation is a simple calculation that provides a much closer projection to actual availability. The time and energy required to dial in from there is cumbersome and provides limited value as the percentages don’t change drastically. Anyway, this has all become very detailed and probably confusing to the OP. Best advice I have is sign up for toprut, hunter’s trailhead or gohunt.

Congratulations on a fine first! Welcome to the Coues world!

Getting 4 random numbers is the same thing as getting your name in the hat 4 times.

What NOTAGS is trying to point out is that the Game and Fish data is based on the total number of applicants (first and second choice) divided by the total number of tags. However this is not in line with the way the tags are allocated. First 20% of the tags are assigned to the applications with the highest bonus points. So if there are 100 permits for a hunt, then 20 are allocated this way leaving 80 for the rest of the applicants to draw. Those 80 tags are then drawn at random. Except, each application is entered into the drawing x the number of bonus points for that applicant. For instance, someone with three bonus points will have their application entered into drawing 3 additional times, the application plus once more for each bonus point for a total of 4 chances. So even in the random draw, bonus points come into play. For these two reasons the draw odds listed in the regs are not the most accurate available. However, they do offer a fair indication of overall application interest and patterns.

Bonus points apply to all applications. You know this.

Good rutting, but by that second week bulls will be getting broke.

Be snarky if you feel like it. I told him what my opinion was. I’m no expert or big time guide so I don’t have any inside info. And I don’t put in for rifle antelope in AZ so whatever he does it’s no hair off my nuts. Just answering the man’s question.

Dude... nice!

The recent reports I have heard from these units reflect dwindling age class and lower overall buck size. 19A has lots of big ones but there may or may not be any left after two archery hunts.

Same question, same response. A goal of >80” in AZ is achievable in almost any unit in the state. Pick the hunt experience you want. Unit 10 - A chance at finding a super big buck, potentially shooting long range, lots of other tag holders. 5BN - Same potential for a huge buck. Not as many tags but still gets plenty of attention from guides and outfitters. More vegetated areas. Unit 9 - Hunt the trees and fewer people. 19B - Lots of private’s land you buy access to and have all to yourself. Highly recommend doing muzzle loader instead of rifle in this unit. 5A - Very few tags. Open country. Not nearly as much hype as 5BN. 3A / 3C / 4A / 4B - Lower on the radar but plenty of opportunity for a buck over 80”. Not as big of a circus as the more popular units. Units I would stay away from 1, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3B, 7, 8, 19A (unless you do archery), anything in the 30’s. One thing to note, they reduced antelope tag numbers significantly in several units this year. When you look at gohunt it will show the draw percentages from this year but will not reflect point creep from reduced available tags. Further complicating things is the fact that many premium tag holders point guarded tags last year so they are back in the draw this year. With our current moisture conditions it’s very possible we will have similar conditions which some say lead to smaller overall horn growth. I will say this, I highly encourage you to use those points. Between aggressive tag numbers, dwindling habitat, and high predator numbers I think antelope are really struggling in this state. AZ’s days as the antelope Mecca of the world may be numbered.

Looks like a great time. Congrats on the buck!

I don’t remember this thread. Wow Jake, glad you are ok.

I can’t even remember the last time I had an animal pop up so fast I couldn’t chamber a round. If I have time to put a rest down, turn up my scope (or even dual turrets), range find, etc how could I not have time to open and close a bolt? Ifi was sitting down calling elk I might chamber a round, but I basically glass everything I rifle hunt. I guess turkey hunting I would chamber one while calling. I just don’t see a reason while walking around.

Yeah, that’s how my coues hunts go too. Nice video!

I missed a nice buck in 24b today during the hard rain. I thought the shot was perfect but it just gave him a haircut. Almost a perfect Christmas present.

Sleeper unit

Nope. They already issued the regs and most units went down in tag numbers. And tag allotments are based on percent success so having fewer tags probably wouldn’t change it anyway.

I got a .22 from my grandparents when I was 12. A racer from my dad a few years later and a blanket from a girlfriend. Still have all of them.