Flatlander

Man, I am going through some stuff with my boy right now, I know how tough this is. I am thrilled to see this update and cant wait to share it my son. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

This is basically what the BLM program is. They round up horses off BLM land, put them in holding pens and then have auctions. Problem is there is far less demand then there are horses. So taxpayers get stuck with the bill for holding these animals and feeding them in perpetuity. The Heber horses arent subject to round up because it is a federally designated wild horse preserve. The horses on the Salt are not on a preserve but are not rounded up because of the PR nightmare the horsey lovers started.

Someone breaking a game law doesnt cost the citizens of this state a hundreds of thousands of national forest.

Wrong. What are they going to do, assign a monitor to every campsite? There are not enough LEO in the state to ensure no one does something stupid. With conditions like this, all somebody has to do is flick a cigarette in the grass. There is no way to make sure no one does anything that could cause a fire.

I love lion pics. Their muscle tone is unreal.

Mesa Sales

Very cool.

Choice Teansmission in Gilbert did my F150.

Did you decide to just quit hunting altogether?

180 Ram, 200 Muley, 400 bull, 90 antelope, 110 coues Typically the guys stating this as their goals havent hunted enough to appreciate what they are saying and often dont know the difference between something exceptional and something above average. Good luck dude, hope it works out for you.

I don't care what everyone else is putting in for, just what I am putting in for. When I drew my antelope tag I applied for one choice and drew tag #1. I am open to 22 or 24B, not really thinking there are 180 class sheep in any other units right now. Cool story. Keep collecting points. Hopefully everyone else doing the same thing dies before you.

Being from the mountain doesnt automatically qualify you as responsible or conscientious. I mean heck, most poachers live right where they poach its a fact. So spare me the valley people bs. Morons come from everywhere, the valley just has more people therefore more morons.

There arent enough forest cops on earth to enforce that properly.

I have 0 desire to shoot one of these things. There is no hunt associated with it. I would like them gone, but I dont want to do the killing. I wish the BLM program actually worked. Unfortunately nobody wants them. Probably have to exterminate them.

Blake is right about the 24BS Wilderness vs 24BS. At max points, you might think about trying to grab a different unit that all the other max point holders wont be putting in for.

People still hold binos freehand? Its really hard to stay hidden if I set up a tripod in your neighbors shrubs.

I live near where that bear was spotted. Happens every time it's this dry. They drop off Four Peaks in a desperate search for food and water. And I agree on the closure! Shut the whole thing down now! Poor bastard. Could have dropped off 4 Peaks and hot water on two sides. He chose unwisely.

I can barely hold 10s steady freehand, dont know how you guys do it with 12s.

Its a tough market for these. Guys dont nderstand the value and quality. These are a much better quality than Vortex Kaibabs and the craftsmanship shows. For what youll get out of them, just keep them. Not worth what guys are willing to pay. Guys these days are stuck on name brands and logos. You dont see anybody posting up #docteroptics with their success pics, I guess Jay never mentioned them on his podcast.

Hubba hubba

I think he means an equipment operator

Oh geez, now I really feel like an idiot. Several years back at one of the banquets, they had a raffle for a black Lab pup. My wife really wanted it. So I bought $500 in tickets. If I knew that might negatively paint me as "the hunting elite," I would never have done such a dastardly deed without asking someone's permission on how I can spend my money. I'll know better next time. Oh, I didn't even win the dang raffle. I don't know for sure, but that pup might have gone to a homeless person -- i.e. not one of the "elite"--who could only afford one ticket. I did not say anything negative about the hunting elite. I have spent lots of money at banquets as well. I am all for the model, I just dont support using supply and demand as the model of extracting value from tags as it violates the North American model. I said nothing negative about Cindi or her family, I respect them very much. But Corky and Cindi are far from the regular guys that Red said always win the raffles.

The auction or raffle of tags, in my evaluation, violates at least two tenants of the NAMWC. 1. That wildlife is allocated by law rather than by market conditions and should not favor persons based on property ownership, socio-economic status or political position. 2. That hunting should be accessible to all. The current HPC and super raffles are a great case study for this proposal. Originally there was just the HPC, then the super raffle was added. There are currently 3 special tags for each species. Where do we draw the line when it comes to special tags for extra money? The answer the line will be wherever we decide to put it, and for me that means right where it is today and not one more tag. You can accuse me of hiding or being misguided, the truth is that I am principled and committed. And without those two traits hunting will ultimately go away regardless of what the HSUS says or does. We will lose our heritage to commercialism and social media. Slowly, one day at a time we will give it away piece by piece, a tag here, a special privilege there until one day it is completely unrecognizable as the heritage we cherished. Then what will we be left with? Some magazines? A professional hunters Instagram feed? Dollars in the bank to save what . . .The rights of the privileged few? No thanks.

No, I didnt forget it. You said the HPC raffles always go to the normal guys, and that is not true. I dont give 2 squats of bird crap how you administer the tags, I am opposed to using them in the way that has been proposed. Get it through your head I am not debating the particulars of the system, because it is not the particulars I am opposed to, it is the principle.

Uh, wrong. Dan Agnew won one. Not exactly an Average Joe, and I have witnessed with my own eyes Cindi Richardson buy a raffle at a banquet by just flooding the bucket with her tickets. I didnt have a problem with it, I have a lot of respect for Corky and Cindy, but to say there is no advantage to the hunting elite is false. Let me make this as crystal clear as possible, I BELIEVE PROVIDING ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY AT FINANCIAL PREMIUM IS A PROSTITUTION OF THE NORTH AMERICAN MODEL. We should fight it at every turn. If the goal is to raise as much money as is possible for this program then why does it matter who wins That right there is the issue. The purpose of having tags is not to raise as much money as possible, and never should be.