Flatlander

A little bit of everything. Cool pics.

This hunt is providing me with a countless number of new opportunities. This is the first antelope hunt I have participated in since 2001 when I had an archery tag, its in a new unit, and I am hoping it will be my first muzzleloader harvest. I have been learning the ropes of smoke pole hunting since 2012 when I traded a backpack I won in a "Guess the Draw Date and Time" contest for a CVA Magbolt 150. I swapped out the straight 2x tasco scope with a Leupold Ultimate Slam 3-9 SABR reticle. Last week I took the rig out to the range to start dialing in the ballistics reticle with the recommended loads. It took me over 3 hours at Rio Salado to send 28 rounds down range, and get dialed in at 100 yards. It was a long hot afternoon and I am pretty sure my palm is permanently scarred from pushing ttsx sabots down the tube, but I couldn't be happier with the end results: After some long nights studying maps, Google Earth and two pages of notes gathered from cwt members advice I was prepared to head back up the mountain with my two little helpers. As we arrived in the unit we were treated to a high country downpour. There is nothing like the smell in the mountains after a good shower. Our first stop was to check into a new vantage point over looking some of the country we had looked at on our last trip. Before we could even get out of the truck we were greeted by this buck feeding near the road: After letting the boys watch this buck for a few minutes we set up the glass and watched several more groups of antelope feeding between rain showers. There were plenty of bucks, in fact it seems like does are hard to find. We found several mature bucks int this group: When we drove out we found this brute hanging out in another group of 6-8 bucks. We made a few more stops with nothing more to show for it than a few does and an endless string of orange fence posts. After driving 40 miles on a FS road we made our way to a section of grassland surrounded by juniper mountains all around. This is my favorite country to hunt so I was excited when we turned up a couple of bucks after just a few minutes behind the Gold Rings: The highlight of the day came when we headed across the valley to a nearby hill to see if we could locate anymore lope, as we started walking I thought to myself that I should keep my eyes peeled for sheds because this looked like horn country. 30 yards later I stumbled onto the biggest mule deer shed I have ever picked up. With a storm closing in I told the boys to keep moving while I looked for the other side. No sooner were the words out of my mouth when I heard my 5 yr old son Hunter shout "Daddy I found one too!" The other side was only about 10 yards away. Hunter was so excited to pick up his own antler, he packed it around the rest of the day. I am the world's worst shed hunter, with my lack of achievements in this redneck endeavor only being rivaled by my lackluster pig hunting record (don't ask, its too embarrassing to speak of), so I was coming out of my shoes excited about my first matched pair being a father/son effort, the set being such an awesome pair was icing on the cake. Unfortunately the left side had its fronts licked off by other critters. Later this week I will put a tape to the in tact right side and come up with a good faith estimate of what he would score, any one venture a guess? Our plan was to travel a FS road from this location into the next valley over and loop back to the highway. Unfortunately 4 miles down the road we ran into a familiar fence marked with orange posts and had to turn back. This turned our return trip home into a 6 hour affair. But fortunately we were able to make the most of the trip and get a look at portions of the unit we had not yet put eyes on. It ended up paying dividends as we were able to find lots of country to scout on future trips, and if the pressure gets hot on the bucks we already have located, we know we have somewhere to go during the hunt. I can hardly wait to get out again. But between now and then I have some additional range work to do to get comfortable out to extended distances. Thanks to all the members who have provided insight and information in relation to this hunt. There is no way I could have gotten up to speed without you guys.

Does it have a john in it? I would use it.

Chevy silverado 1500 long bed regular cab?

Sweet

Hahaha

This is one of our biggest issues as sportsmen. The way we splinter and fragment whenever we are faced with decisions that impact our processes. When you say "Some of us . . . " you imply anyone who disagrees with you does not remember 2072 or does not worry about abuse. I assure you we stand on the same side of the fence on those issues. However I do feel that there are organizations that do now benefit, without prevalent abuse of which I am aware, and could continue to do so. Surrendered tags today can only be given to HOAL or similar organizations and it is my preference that those organizations not get slighted in this potential change. But rather than say "Some of us want sick kids to be able to go hunting. . . " I will just say that perhaps collectively we could work on a plan that allows organizations benefiting ill or under privileged children to continue to receive the opportunities they now have. Just my .02, I don't feel like we need to be enemies, I don't think we really even disagree much. Honestly, I have said from the beginning I have no idea why hunters want a change to the tag surrender laws, but if guys want it, then I am willing to see if there is a plan that meets their needs without hosing a bunch of other deserving folks in the process.

This is the first thing I thought of when I read this proposal. I have no problem with a tag surrender policy, as long as it is available to everyone, and any surrendered tags went to the next guy in line ONLY. Allowing someone to turn it over to a so called "nonprofit" org, while retaining their points, is outrageous, and should be TOTALLY out of the question. All points should be lost. Anything less would be a way for corruption to work it's way in. Such a policy would grossly cheapen everyone else's points, and cheat those next in line. Hunt of a lifetime? Really guys, there lots of worthy organizations who deserve surrendered tags and already get them.

Right on the money Kent.

Good question. You should ask them.

Schedule of Public Meetings June 26, 79 p.m. in Phoenix AZGFD Headquarters 5000 W. Carefree Highway July 8, 79 p.m. in Mesa Bass Pro Shops 1133 N. Dobson Road July 15, 79 p.m. in Flagstaff AZGFD Regional Office 3500 S. Lake Mary Road July 17, 79 p.m. in Tucson International Wildlife Museum 4800 W. Gates Pass Road July 22, 79 p.m. in Glendale Cabelas 9380 W. Glendale Ave. July 24, 79 p.m. in Payson Majestic Mountain Inn 602 E. Highway 260 Zero benefit? Where do the fees for this club go to? If there was 0 benefit they would do it for all sportsmen at no cost.... I said there was 0 benefit to the department if sportsmen don't want it. If they offer the service, install the infrastructure and no one subscribes or joins, it hasn't benefitted them or us at all. The whole point of the idea is to find additional benefit to sportsmen that they would value enough to pay for. Pretty simple if you don't want the service, don't pay for it.

+1 on the video I lost two elk shot with Swhackers, I was shooting lighter tackle then, one shot hit the shoulder and did not penetrate well and the other was back. It was enough to convince me to switch to cut on contact. I am not a fan of the way a Swhacker opens after it begins to penetrate. Lots of people on here like them, and I have watched lots of videos of them being used successfully.

Hey guys this is good feed back but voicing your feedback here won't help shape the program. It was pretty clear to me last night that the department is not emotionally attached to tag surrender, they are simply reacting to feedback they have received. So if you don't like the idea, show up to a meeting and say so. Or send Scott Lavin from the dept an email and let him know your opinion on the topic. There is really 0 benefit to the department for this process unless hunters want it. From being at the meeting it definitely appears that the consensus is in favor of tag surrender. So if you don't like the idea, you need to speak up to the right people.

Sorry guys I had a typo in my previous post. Giving club members priority for surrendered tags was universally agreed to as a BAD idea. I would be very surprised if AZGFD moves forward with that option. I think the numbers of tags surrendered in other states is around .25% it's so minimal I don't know why anyone cares if it's an option.

I am nearly 100% that is a Chupacabra. You are fortunate, day sightings are rare. Non-game animal, you can harvest year round.

Thanks Brian!

Thanks guys for the info. The hotel is booked. I will report back after the trip.

I was in attendance tonight and listened to what the G&F had to say. I have never before attended a Sportsmen Constituent Group Meeting, and I didn't have to join or register anything, I just showed up and said my piece. Here are my takeaways: 1. The dept. will be implementing a new interface component to their website which will allow for each person to interact with the department individually and see the things they use most on their screen page. This is being implemented, is free to the public and should help improve the way we buy licenses, update payment, register watercraft, etc. This is a much needed update and should produce lower overhead and operating cost for the Dept. 2. The Dept. has gained authority from the state to break away from the state's IT provider and begin developing their own systems for the draw, etc. As others have tried to explain during draw troubles in the past, up until this time the Dept. has been required by the state to use the IT provider contracted by the state for all state departments. This has been the genesis of draw problems in the past. They are in the process of developing a new platform for the draw with the goal of bringing everything in house. 3. The "Club" or "Bundled services as they are referring to it is still conceptual, but the commission has asked them to implement something by 1/31/2015. I am still not clear what the goal of the club is, but from what I gathered it appears to be two pronged: First; To more fully utilize technology in the recruitment and retention of new hunters and Second; to develop a new revenue stream to help fund the commitments the Dept. has already made to technology i.e. the Portal or web interface page described in number 1. 4. Tag Surrender, this is a hot button issue with hunters, and for what reason I cannot figure out. The Dept would like to use this as an enticement for hunters to begin doing more online and thereby join their "Club" or "Bundled Services". For whatever reason tag surrender is omething that hunters in this state are showing they want, and the dept is trying to find a way to provide it. In my mind this service is useless. If their is an emergency I can (and have) already petition the Dept. and ask that my points be restored and the tag returned. Almost everyone else in attendance thought this was a great idea. It was noted that protections need to be put in place to prevent abuse of the system i.e. someone putting in on a party app and returning thier tag but not the tag of other party applicants is one example. 5. Issuance of surrendered tags. Everyone in attendance, including the Dept. seemed to agree that giving a priority to "Club" members for returned tags was a BAD idea. This is a bad idea and I will be shocked if the Dept. moves ahead with it. 6. early access to draw results, it seemed as though the department recognizes that it is unlikely that folks would find any benefit, because hunters can already see if they will be receiving a tag by checking credit card info. There is not a feasible way for the dept. to get the info out sooner than the credit card companies. 7. Other ideas were offered for "Club" benefits or incentives; most notably was access to draw odds and statistics via the portal. This, in my mind is a worthy benefit and the first thing that has been mentioned for whch I would be willing to pay. There is a market for this data and very few resources for obtaining it currently. I believe that constituents want the Dept. to improve on the level of information currently provided and the ease with which that information is obtained. If the department provided this at an added cost, It is my belief that many people would respond favorably, more so than allowing tag surrender or priority to receive surrendered tags. Overall my feelings were this: AZGFD is working hard to find ways to better connect with new constituents. Hunter and angler recruitment is way down across the country and the facts are that if we don't find ways to make hunting more mainstream, our rights will be trampled and our heritage lost. Yes, this is an attempt for the Dept. to help fund a new project, and their goal is to make it a self sustaining project. If that means they provide added services at an added OPTIONAL cost, then great. I am in support of that. More than anything though I will say that there a re a handful of people working really hard to make sure the voice of sportsmen is heard by the agency responsible for managing wildlife. If no one else speaks up or voices a concern then nothing will be done. These meetings are the time to have your voice heard, this is not a commission meeting with commissioners trying to cram down their lunch during a two day solid meeting fest while hunters talk about what they want. this is one on one interaction with the people who are developing the program. There is an abundance of ways that this tool could be used to improve what we get from the dept. at limited additional cost. For instance, I know that in some units with access problems the Wildlife Managers have maps showing what gates are locked and which are open. These are currently only available by contacting the WM directly and asking for it. This portal could be a way to centralize these types of documents and off set the cost of maintaining them. Water catchment info could be published on the portal and accessed with a yearly subscription, things along these lines can be a great benefit to hunters. Lastly, Mad Props to Allen, Hector and Stan who are out there trying to make a difference. Wildlife does not belong to any individual, it belongs to us collectively, and so it is necessary to have some ruling party to manage it. If we speak up, participate in the process and provide useful, relevant information, we can be a powerful force in helping to shape the way our state's resources are managed. I plan to attend again next Tuesday at Bass Pro if possible. I hope to see many of you there.

Posting the time and location again might be a good idea.

Somebody jump on this . . . Great deal on a great bow. My favorite Matthews ever.

My dad taught me this when I was young: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt. ABRAHAM LINCOLN Your ignorant, small minded and racist comment has given us a pretty good idea of what composes your substance as a human being. My wife and children may be "Window Lickers" as you describe them but they understand English, respect for others, and consequences for their actions something I'd be happy to teach you the same way I taught them. Unfortunately for you, your small world only gets smaller when you reveal your character with a comment like this. Now we all can see you for what you are and this community won't put up with someone who is willing to degrade their peers because of where they live, or what they look like. You had an opportunity to share thoughts and ideas with thousands of individuals who share your passions and interests but you crap that away when you begin building walls out of skin color and heritage. I hope Amanda bans you for life, and I will send her an email saying as much. There are too many good people on this site to waste any space with your intellectually weak rhetoric.

Still available?

You guys almost have me sold. We are taking the family to the ABQ area for 4 days at the end of July to check it out for ourselves. Any suggestions on where to get us some authentic Nee Mexican cuisine? Any must do activities? I've been looking at a town that's about 20 minutes from our office there named Edgewood. Anyone have any insight on that area? I really like the idea of being out of town and near the mountains but still close to work.

I would say right now that the deer in 3c are benefitting from the elk numbers leveling out. Scientifically I can't verify that but the deer I see coming out of 3c now seem much better than right after the RC fire. Back to the fire discussion, my heart goes out to The people impacted. Danny White lives near us and he is friends with my parents. I am sick for him.

What you are saying is based in fact. A couple of years ago the WM from unit 1 (Packer is his screen name I believe) shared the rationale for increasing tags following the Wallow fire. And essentially he said for the first couple of years the habitat couldn't support the herd sizes it had previously so the increase in tags was to reduce herds and allow the new growth to take hold. Once the new growth took hold it sustained more animals than prior to the fire, and increased nutrients for those animals which correlates to increased antler growth. Once the boom of new forage levels out and the new growth begins to get thick and the rich post fire nutrients are gone then the increased forage is lost and you begin to return to pre-fire herd levels and the boom is over.