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Flatlander

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Posts posted by Flatlander

  1. Posted · Report reply

    We are talking about two different revenue streams with two different uses.
     

    Proceeds from auction tags are designated for the HPC fund that pays for grants to do projects. They can only be used for this purpose and cannot be used for AZGFD operational costs.

    The limited entry permits generate additional operating revenue for the department and it would be unlikely for it to fund a project in a significant way.  
     

    Although the decision to stop auctioning commissioner tags and the issuance of these particular limited entry tags are timed closely, they are not related. Limited entry tags will continue to be issued periodically as approved by the commission a few years ago. Commissioner tags will continue to fund projects through the HPC.

    • Like 2

  4. Posted · Report reply

    On 11/29/2023 at 6:00 PM, Non-Typical Solutions said:

    Can someone give me a simple explanation of what state trust land means exactly ? I recently ran into a sign claiming it was state trust land and required a permit?

    Also, I called Elkins last winter at Christmas time and asked permission to go coyote calling on his ranch! He gave me permission! I’ve done many carpentry jobs for him through the years!

    Sounds like im gonna have to go give him a visit and see what’s going on!

    I’ve been on both sides of the ranching/ farming side of the fence! I hate what has happened in unit 10 and certainly wouldn’t want that kind of nonsense in my backyard! 

     

     

    Please do and keep us posted. This is all about creating a solution that provides good outcomes for everyone. I understand their position and why they did what they did. But I think better options can be developed.

    • Like 1

  5. Posted · Report reply

    10 hours ago, stillatmaxpoints said:

    Before everyone starts in on the trust land being non public land, which it is. Arizona is lucky your allowed to hunt it, most states like new mexico the game commission has to pay the trust land department a yearly fee for hunters to access the state trust land

    Part of our license fees go to the land trust. That’s why you can access and hunt it with a valid hunting license. It’s not luck, it was designed that way.

    • Like 3
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  6. Posted · Report reply

    14 hours ago, Tony Nile said:

    So the land Carlisle has control over is open to the public for hunting?  Wasn't that way when I had one of the special depredation tags last summer 

    No, he locked his gates and doesn’t allow anyone on paying or otherwise.

    • Like 1

  7. Posted · Report reply

    Update: Carlisle reached out and informed me that his gates have been locked for a few years. He previously had allowed A3 exclusive access but no longer has that in place. Therefore no need to include their ranch in your comments to AZGFD.

  8. Posted · Report reply

    5 hours ago, Tony Nile said:

    Where does Frank Despain fit into all of this?

    When I spoke to Despain during Summer of 2022 he was the one who told me all the ranchers were going to lock their gates if AZGFD didn’t convert everything to OTC. As far as I know his land is still open to the public.

  9. Posted · Report reply

    On 11/23/2023 at 5:28 PM, Northern Pintail said:

    Not sure what’s bullshit about this?   3a was otc in 2023.   

    This is why it’s BS:

    Prior to 2022 ranchers in 3A and 4B banded together and started complaining about all the elk on the ranch lands north of the forest boundary. The hundreds of elk in the juniper country are eating them out of house and home. There is legitimacy to this, there are lots of elk in places they hadn’t been for several years.

    AZGFD responds by creating a bunch of new draw hunts starting in July and running through December in 2023. Success is pretty high. Game and fish also runs a BUNCH of pop man hunts which are also pretty successful.

    Not even halfway through 2022, before the draw hunts even start, the ranchers decide everything north of the forest boundary has to be OTC. They threaten to lock their gates and deny access to ALL hunters if their demand isn’t met. Sportsmen contest this but AZGFD concedes and converts everything to OTC starting in March 2023.

    Carlisle had already locked his gates due to a dispute over a AZGFD violation years before. He had at one time given A3 exclusive access, but that agreement is no longer in place. Elkins locked his gates and refuses hunters access to remove the elk. At some point Elkins sells exclusive access to Big Chino Outfitters who has a similar arrangement on a large ranch in western AZ. They advertise hunts for $8500+.

    So essentially, the ranchers used their ploy to get OTC tags as a Trojan horse to create land owner tags that they can sell to the highest bidder. The have unlimited supply and the most generous seasons in the state. 

    This was never about elk eating grass or drinking water. This was always about ranchers maximizing their return on the public’s resource while simultaneously flipping the public the bird.

    That is why this is BS.

    Please write to AZGFD and ask them to discontinue the OTC Zeniff hunt area seasons until Elkins enters into a public access agreement.

     

     

    • Like 12

  10. Posted · Report reply

    I know we are right before the holiday and mid-season on a bunch of hunts, but there is an issue in Unit 3A that needs immediate attention.

    Below is a picture of the hunt recommendations for 2024 Elk and Antelope. Included in the recommendations is a modification to the boundary description for 3A that changes the hunts or area for draw tags to that portion of the unit within the Apache Sitgreaves NF. The remainder of the unit was converted to OTC at the insistence of the ranchers in the area.

    With the OTC designation, the Elkins ranch has entered into an exclusive access agreement with an outfitter who is selling OTC hunts for $10k.

    This privatization of hunting and commercialization of a public resource is not in line with the North American Model and is a disservice to all hunters.

    Please submit a comment to AZGFD to close elk hunting in the Zeniff hunt area until these ranches create a public access agreement similar to what other ranches in the state have done.

    Submit comments to:
    AZHuntGuidelines@azgfd.gov

    IMG_2328.jpeg

    Resized_Screenshot_20231121_175715_Instagram.jpeg

    • Like 9
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  14. Posted · Report reply

    10 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

    This is strange to me. I always thought part of azgfd job was to help protect our rights to hunt. 
     

     

    There are two very problematic assumptions in your statement.

    1. AZGFD’s mission has nothing to do with hunting. From their website:

    To conserve Arizona’s diverse wildlife resources and manage for safe, compatible outdoor recreation opportunities for current and future generations.
     

    If you are relying on a government agency to protect what you love, you are in for disappointment.

    2. This point has been made, but in AZ, you do not have a right to hunt and fish. We have that opportunity because the so far the public has supported it. The second that changes and some anti organization can pass a ballot measure to end it, it will end.

    I understand that many people are frustrated by what is happening. I also understand that bitching about AZGFD has become a normal pastime around here, and I have participated plenty. But there is nothing to blame them for here. The HSUS is using this process to go on public record and establish the fact that thousands of Arizonans are opposed to predator hunting. Unfortunately, when the comments are posted in their entirety for everyone to see, there will not be a record of how many lion and bear tags are sold each year unless someone submits it as a comment. AZGFD manages wildlife in the interest of the public, so if the public doesn’t want them hunted, guess what?

    I know how dumb and frustrating this seems to people who are using common sense. Unfortunately, democracy doesn’t always follow the rules of common sense. It follows rules and processes. Right now the enemies of hunting and fishing are monopolizing one of those processes to paint a picture. The fastest and best way to combat that is to overwhelm their effort.

    I am begging the CMT community to set the snarkiness and apathy aside. This is important.

    Please comment in support of lion, bear and bobcat hunting. 

    AZHuntGuidelines@azgfd.gov

    • Like 2

  16. Posted · Report reply

    Public agencies who manage public resources are required to have a formal process for public input. If the anti’s flood the public comment process with requests to end lion, bear and bobcat hunting then if the department doesn’t consider those comments, the anti’s can sue the department on some liberal court and object to the policies, taking wildlife management away from science and into politics.

    Amber was likely doing hunters a favor by speaking up in a meeting with a well organized sportsmen group who could mount a response.

    Email your pro hunting comments here:

    AZHuntGuidelines@azgfd.gov

    • Like 5

  19. Posted · Report reply

    6 minutes ago, Newbie2012 said:

    But it’s not official.  They still need to complete the comment period through January. Then in mid March, the final proposed guideline changes published for review. Then it’s presented to Commission in April for final action. Only one Commissioner expressed his desire. Until they all vote, it’s not official. Will they all favor the changes? Probably. But ya never know. 

    You are correct, anything can change through the public comment period. This is the current direction given to the department by their governing body, the commission.

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